Twinky

Doesn't TWI have this idea, well, taken from older-style Bibles, that where it says LORD it means God but where it says Lord it means Jesus? I understand that in Hebrew, they'd never write the name of God or even "God" but rather "G-d" (too sacred). The same may have carried on to some extent into Greek texts, depending on the basis for the Greek etc. To make sense of the part Charity quoted, you'd have to look at the Hebrew or Greek word behind that in the English version. https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/god-yhwh/difference-between-lord-Lord-and-LORD.htm In any event, TWI's explanation isn't to be trusted. Better to get your concordance and other study materials out and have a look at what word(s) has/have actually been translated.

It has been used for various purposes. Some years, there were permanent in-residence Way Corps ("leadership") trainees throughout the year, at least during the spring to autumn months, not sure about winter. Summer camps, a week at a time, July-August. Various teachings on a pre-announced theme in the morning, family free time afternoons with activities laid on, meetings of various types in the evenings. Some of the afternoon guest activities may include rafting, walking in forests, hiking up mountains, fishing, cart rides, rodeo, bucking bronco machine, clown show, etc. In later years, it's just been some kind of summer camp or retreat. I don't know what activities are provided for people holidaying there. There are also classes, or short courses, run from time to time. You have to have taken the "foundational class" to be able to visit this camp. It's not open to the general public. It's a gorgeous peaceful location, set on the flat valley floor and gently sloping banks of a lovely clear little river. Breathtakingly great views across to nearby snow-capped mountains. Purpose built log cabins of various sizes for use as residences for family or individual guests and students, and for teachings, gatherings, a library, and associated facilities. https://www.theway.org/connect-and-grow/camp-gunnison/

The top photo: My church. Opened 2010, newbuild, the previous old-fashioned traditional-design church on the same site having burned down, suspected arson (kids broke in to play, played with matches - wastebin - curtains - poof!). So the church claimed some insurance moneys and requested donations from the congregation, and our new modern church building, very flexible, was built. The tall part is the meeting room, next to it is front entrance with big lobby, offices to the left, and at back, another smaller (but still very big) meeting room used for children's activities. There's a fenced outdoor play area with grass and soft resin at the very back. The second photo: the community centre, immediately adjacent to the church. This scruffy "temporary" building has been there decades. My church met in it about once a month while the old church was demolished and then the new one built - the main congregation meeting weekly with the usual congregation at a different, sister, church half a mile away. (You can see a sliver of the new church in the background.) The community centre is on a large piece of land, with car parking, but has been neglected for over 6 maybe 8 years. Dilapidated, horribly overgrown, shrubs and small trees everywhere, building looking awful, rubbish abandoned underneath the building and out the back. Car park under 4" of compressed leaves. We bought it! In one month, we raised £240,000 in donations and sealed the deal last week. Painters are already restoring the interior. A working bee which about 40 adult members of the congregation attended cleared the carpark of all the fallen leaves over the deserted years, all the three and shrub overgrowth, all the rubbish.... hard work, but lots of fun. Some parents brought their little kiddies, who helped with their tiny spades, or carried twigs to the skip (dumpster). There's another working bee this coming Saturday; that'll be outside too, but there may be some inside stuff as well, like cleaning the kitchen and sanitary facilities. There's an 8 foot fence between the two parcels of land. Concrete posts, wire, and topped by several strands of barbed wire. Think that may be down in part this weekend, too. Eventually, the community centre will be demolished and the church, with its graceful lines, will be fully extended into the site, providing a larger church meeting hall, and more offices/smaller space, particularly for the youth activities. It's been wonderful over the last decade+ to see this community transformed. The feral youths have grown up, and are better young men for it, having learned discipline and decent manners at the church. Lonely single parents can meet others at Mums & Toddlers. Other single people can come to a free lunch on Wednesdays, with activities before and after the lunch. There's a youth club on Friday nights, where, among other things, table tennis is a popular activity (and one that teaches kids discipline and rules). There's at least one event at the church every day. All sorts of people on the surrounding housing estate see us as a place to get help and comfort. So - it's going to be exciting seeing the difference over the next decade, when the permanent building is erected and we can continue to glorify God in our service and expand our offering to the community. Please pray, if you're the praying sort, for the ongoing work and then the outreach.

By contrast, however:

Is that the new Way Prods? If so, it might even be worth a sneak into a SNS!

Flinging Orange books at each other.

I'm not sure how eating butter and honey helps one know to refuse evil and choose good, but hey-ho. Maybe there was significance in the OT. Sounds like words spoken by the false comforter Zophar, from Job 20:17. The description actually seems more like the way of life for John the Baptist, whose diet was locusts and wild honey (ugh).

I was badly broken after being kicked out and was a desperate, near suicidal, wreck for a good ten years afterwards. I was deeply ashamed then, and am ashamed of that person who I'd been turned into. It wasn't really "me" - I'd been brought up by my parents to be much better than I became. I hurt people that I cannot apologise to (how I wish I could!). I don't really talk about it, either. But I do use the post-TWI experience and growth to try to help others who have been in equally desperate circumstances. Lemons into lemonade, as it were. I have much more to share now, and a bigger base for helping others. Life is sooooooooooooo much better now. Thank God. Thank the Lord Jesus, who rescued me from all that stuff.

And furthermore: The gospel of Luke is fairly bland on the naming of Jesus. All it says (Luke 2) is: Gospel of Matthew has a little more detail: That's a verse from Isaiah 7:14 - https://biblehub.com/kjv/isaiah/7.htm This is how Strong's describes the name Immanuel: So how come this child was named "Jesus" (God our Saviour) and not "Immanuel" (God with us)? [ note that -el suffix, as discussed in my above post. Again, it wouldn't mean that the bearer of the name was God]. Did the angel get confused, or get the names mixed up? Seems unlikely! Were Joseph and Mary disobedient? Also seems unlikely. Did the baby have more than one name? Again, seems unlikely. There are records of males and a few females being given new names in both OT and NT, but they are at specific times when some great thing is about to happen in that person's life. Perhaps Jesus was named Jesus at his birth and circumcision, and the name Immanuel was only from his baptism at the start of his ministry? But then, all the gospels continue to call him Jesus. And all the records of what people called him - also Jesus. Never Immanuel. It's clear the name was never anything like the immensely long name, or any part of the name, recorded in Isaiah 9. And perhaps Isaiah 7:14 is not as prophetic as Christians would like to believe?

Just thinking about names generally in the OT and NT, we know very, very many names include -el or El- (God/Elohim) or Je- (God/Jehovah). Just about any page you open a Bible, you'll find a name in this format. Examples: Daniel is a masculine given name and a surname of Hebrew origin. It means "God is my judge" (cf. Gabriel—"God is my strength") From the Hebrew name דָּנִיֵּאל (Daniyyel) meaning "God is my judge", from the roots דִּין (din) meaning "to judge" and אֵל ('el) meaning "God") Elisabeth from Heb 'elishebha` (Elisheba), "God is (my) oath," i.e. a worshipper of God), Elijah (a double-God name!), Elishah... and many more. Doesn't mean that any of these people were God. Then we get "Jesus." Taken to mean "God our Saviour" and therefore that the bearer of the name was himself God. The name Jesus is a contraction, common at the time Jesus our Saviour was born. It's a contraction of Jehoshua - God our Saviour - which itself became shortened to "Joshua." The name Jesus is much the same as the older name Joshua and the even older name Jehoshua. Nobody thought that Joshua, Moses's most faithful and loyal aide, and later the leader into the promised land, was God. Just calling someone by any of these names doesn't indicate that the child so named was God, any more than naming your own child Daniel or Elisabeth makes that child God. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_(name) What's clear is that Jesus wasn't given (as far as we know) any name or contraction of any name that appears in Isaiah 9:6.

Bolshevik, you probably knew DWBH. I slightly edited my post, but your "quote" is still good.

For those recently arrived here, "R" is the former poster here under the name DontWorryBeHappy. He was very high in TWI circles. And was kicked out, unceremoniously, for challenging the adulterous behaviour going on, especially by Craig Martindale - but DWBH took with him a headload of knowledge of the inner workings at top level.

Very honest post, OldSkool. Thank you.

Mike's said this on a number of occasions.

That seems like an unnecessarily aggressive response from Mike to a reasonable question from Charity. But setting the aggression aside, it might be the most interesting and illuminating response ever, from Mike. Him as a person, not him as a mouthpiece. Shows he might think a little.

Interesting article. Never knew anything about her before.

I can understand payment on a "need" basis - as long as it applies to everyone - especially those at the helm! Can you see VPW, Craig or Rosalie living on a need basis? Or the other head honchos? Nah, me neither. Can't speak for Vern; he was on staff and thus paid on a "need" basis. And the "need" needs to be fully costed - including provision for current needs (reliable cars, family time including ability to visit distant family) - and future needs, especially retirement planning. God gives generously. Therefore, there is no need to pay stingily. Such is not reflective of God's abundance.

Perhaps it's time for someone to access their public financial accounts again. See what their current reserves/cash in hand are, and what's been paid out in salaries.

Or this one. The kid wants to teach you the sounds.

If that's for the intermediate class, this must be for the AC.

Not bothered, just a thought. Mods can decide if they wish. I'll watch the podcast this evening. Sounds interesting.

No time to listen right now (going to work!) but wouldn't this be better in Open or Doctrinal?

The NT, is, as you say, a lot of re-contextualising of what Christians call the OT. But then, the NT is kicked off by a lot of re-contextualising by Jesus himself. Luke 4:21 is a great example: “This day is this Scripture fulfilled in your ears..." , which, as it happens, is from Isaiah 61.

Still doing some checking on this. At T-Bone's recommendation, I've been rummaging around in the Complete Jewish Study Bible, which can be downloaded as a PDF. It's not very searchable, as there are no hyperlinks. (I have become so intrigued by this JSB that I might well buy a copy.) Anyhow, I eventually found this commentary. First, their translation of vv 5-6: For a child has been born to us, A son has been given us. And authority has settled on his shoulders. He has been named "The Mighty God is planning grace;' The Eternal Father, a peaceable ruler"­ In token of abundant authority And of peace without limit Upon David's throne and kingdom, That it may be firmly established In justice and in equity Now and evermore. The zeal of the LORD of Hosts Shall bring this to pass. And now the commentary: 9.1-6: The ideal Davidic king. Isaiah describes liberation from some form of adversity (perhaps the Assyrian conquests of Israelite territory described in the previous vv., or Syro-Ephraimite pressures on Judah). The verbs are in the past tense. Some interpreters view them as examples of the "prophetic past," which predicts future events using the past tense because they are as good as done. Thus it is not clear whether the Davidic king whose birth and rule are described (vv. 5-6) has already been born (if the verbs are a regular past tense) or will be born in the future (prophetic past). If the former, the v. probably refers to Ahaz's son Hezekiah, as many modern and rabbinic commentators believe (though other possibilities exist depending on the date of the passage). Most later readers (both Jewish and Christian) understood the passage to describe an ideal future ruler, i.e., the Messiah. 5: "The Mighty God . . . ruler": This long sentence is the throne name of the royal child. Semitic names often consist of sentences that describe God; thus the name Isaiah in Hebrew means "The LoRD saves"; Hezekiah, "The LoRD strengthens"; in Akkadian, the name of the Babylonian king Merodach-baladan (Isa. 39.1) means "the god Marduk has provided an heir." These names do not describe that person who holds them but the god whom the parents worship. Similarly, the name given to the child in this v. does not describe that child or attribute divinity to him, contrary to classical Christian readings of this messianic verse.