Twinky

If one cares to read in the OT, there's very good reasons why a man was permitted to have more than one wife. In one particular case, it was where a man had died without issue (probably, without having a son). His brother was to marry the widow. (1) The first child then born of that union would be credited to the deceased brother, to keep his name in Israel and to inherit his portion of the land. (2) The widow would also be provided for - remember, no widows' pension arrangements in the OT. Remember the story of Onan - who "cast his seed on the ground"? I'll let you "research" or even just plain re-read that. And the man's "duty" to his second or subsequent wives was to be exactly the same as to the first wife. She was not to lack food, raiment or care - specifically, sexual pleasure. (Certainly in modern Judaism, did you know that sexual satisfaction is considered to be the right of the wife - not the right of the husband?) David married his second wife, Abigail, wife of Nabal the Carmelite, who had just dropped dead, to protect her in a time when women had few protections. Don't know why he married the others - lust? political unions? I have no idea how he could provide equally for al his wives, much less his unfortunate concubines. And just because he had all these women, don't be thinking for one second that that was God-sanctioned. God's idea is one man with one wife. Says that at the beginning of the bible, and is repeated in the epistles.

Do your own bloody research. Don't you have a concordance?

Please give advanced warning. I don't have any of that stuff any more. Chucked it all in the woodburner. I don't want to see it again.

My country coordinator played guitar and composed songs. She used to sing one, in particular, which was very touching. Sang it at HQ, where it was immediately pounced on by LCM, who basically stole it, changed some of the wording, accredited to Way Pubs or some such, and gave it to M1ke M@rtin to sing. CC didn't get any acknowledgement, no thanks, no nuthin'. She graciously said it was okay, but I could tell she was disappointed (?) at never being acknowledged or thanked.

The salt covenant thing was a big trip in being guilted out. Salt covenant when you are graduated into the WC; again when you get Rev'd (OldSkool, correct me if I'm wrong here). That was after months or years of being taught how unbreakable the salt covenant was. So how much does that play into fulfilling some pseudo-religious duty?

We could do with a haha bit at the side, not just arrows and hearts.

Kinda like "Listening with a Purpose" but for adults.

I've posted something of the following previously, but it was a while ago and not on this thread. The radio program that I mostly listen to has, or used to have, a programme between two people of diametrically opposite views, often about quite controversial subjects. It was a series, with different people and different areas of argument, each week. The first party, let's say A, had about 10 mins to state their case, during which the other, let's say B, could not interrupt. I think they could ask limited questions afterwards to clarify, but not to argue. Then B presented their PoV, again without interruption (and if B got to ask a few questions of A, then A got to ask a few questions of B). But argument as such was not allowed; participants could not say the other was wrong. And then, A and B had to summarise the view of B and A. Each other party could say whether they thought their viewpoint had been properly summarised, and if not, why not. Usually, the summaries were accepted as reasonably accurate about the other party's PoV. Finally, A and B were both asked if the discussion had caused them to change or moderate their own view. And in every case, they said hearing the other party's view had caused them to consider things they hadn't before. Nobody, as far as I know, changed their mind, but they all moved to a more middle place than they had been previously. Listen with interest to what others say, people. They just might have a point, or something you can learn from.

Get a life, Mike. Please. For your own sake. Get a life. Get a life of genuine service to the community and see what you learn. I'm done with you. I can't be bothered to meander through your puerile ponderings any more. You make as much sense as - as catching feathers in the wind. As much sense as considering the difference in the grains of sand in a cup of sand from the beach. Go and get involved in real community work. Volunteer at a night shelter, the local cats and dogs home, or the local litter pick. You could choose a different charitable work to get involved in every day. Do something more than once; do it several times a week for a sustained period of six months at least. Do something genuinely worthwhile. And then come back and preach at us (if you really must).

Mike complains about WC Nazis. Apart from the fact that he's wrong about that, completely, wrong - where does he think such an attitude stems from? He blames LCM. But LCM is the creature of VPW. So who's the head Nazi, then? Who inculcated this attitude? It starts at the top. To claim otherwise is to claim that any dictator isn't responsible for, and knows nothing about, the cruelty and torture carried out in his regime. Hitler wasn't responsible for Germany's aggression towards Jews, and for the actions of the SS in particular; Stalin wasn't responsible for the purges that took place in Russia; Pol Pot wasn't responsible for the ravages of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. And Jim Jones wasn't responsible for the deaths of his followers in cult-camp in Guyana. Sorry, Mike. Bad attitudes in TWI were taught at the behest of YOUR IDOL, VPW.

Mike bit in purple. Seriously, Mike, after all these years - dacades! - you have never considered that loving your neighbour as yourself is like loving God? And to make sense of that, you have to put it in a "Deep Ponder Folder" (where you will conveniently forget all about it?

Something ironic in that. "Give and Share" series? So why are they charging nearly $11 for the booklet? And not giving it away? In any event, I wouldn't trust what they say or do in this line. Does it include "giving and sharing" your spouse? Does it include hitting your kids with wooden spoons? Does it continue to advocate tough love and not attending to your child's needs? There have got to be a ton of better books on the market. By contrast, in the UK many churches run "The Marriage Course" which is aimed at getting couple to talk gently to each other about issues of common concern. Course can be done online, or sometimes in a small group. If done in the latter way, with some other couples as well, the church will set out tables for two, beautifully decorated, and make it like a romantic date for each couple. A meal is served, and everything is very discreet. You only talk with your spouse and not the other couples. Tables are far enough apart that conversations cannot be overheard. And - it's all FREE. Because caring churches want to build strong couples. https://www.htb.org/marriage-online There is also a pre-marriage course, offered to engaged couples, to help them talk about areas that might be difficult in marriage. Most couples find it very helpful. For some couples, it's helped them decide that they aren't with the right person, because their attitudes to spousal roles, working, money or children are incompatible. They may make the decision not to proceed - in which case, a lot of hurt and harm is prevented. But whatever happens is the couple's decision - not the organisers'. https://www.htb.org/marriage-online

Not much of a teacher, either. Not really. Left confusion in people's minds. And not much of a teacher because he couldn't even teach himself to believe for what he needed.

I think these ECNs that Mike goes on about must mean EGREGIOUS COUNTERFEIT NOTICES. Where he highlights one egregious counterfeit doctrine and announces its replacement (which is probably some other egregious counterfeit).

Or am I making a wrong assumption here? You do have at least one Bible, don't you, Mike?

Why? In what way would that profit your Christian walk? Your lived Christian walk? Why don't you just get on with reading your Bible? And then practising the instruction therein?

Not surprising. He made things up and found things in books and old pieces of paper that he had now lost. And as Mike has made abundantly clear, he doesn't like academia and citations are a bore to him. Which is why he only talks of people he might have met etc. Nothing that can be backed up. (Read: He don't want to bother with checkable details, he just want to say he found it on a piece of paper somewhere.)

I thought all this stuff was lifted from Bullinger's Witness of the Stars?

Brilliant! Take your time, choose the right place, which will be one with a definite no-condemnation basis. You don't need to tell anyone your background unless you are very comfortable with that (nobody knows mine! After 16 years in that church!). How are you welcomed? How do the people behave towards one another? What things do they engage in, in the community and wider afield (read the "mission notices" in the church)? Does it feel a peaceful church? Do you feel peaceful there? You may find that there are things that raise your hackles - they pray to Jesus? They think Jesus is God? They believe (or don't) in water baptism? And so? Is there a good and encouraging gospel message, that uplifts and doesn't condemn? Do they have a newcomers' group, to introduce you to the church and its activities? Question is: are they loving and supportive towards each other, in a healthy way? Suspend your judgment; see how they act. They may be wrong in some things; you were, too, in TWI. We're all of us - well, most - trying to do our best. Try a few churches if you need. Or ask God to show you right now where the best place for you is right now. (Your problem with this might be understanding, and blocking out the "chatter" in your head.) Do you feel peaceful, or refreshed, or some sense of belonging or wanting to be there?

I kinda lost sight of Jesus Christ while in TWI. Got "God-focused" but lost "Jesus-focus." Even now, I'm not very sure, not as Jesus-focused as those around me. Am I missing something? Or someone? "Jesus" is some kind of talisman name in TWI. And Wayfers can have amazing discussions about whether wording should be "Jesus Christ" or "Christ Jesus," the difference between these two styles of address, and other such nonsense, without ever seriously studying the books about the Man's life and actions. Wayfers might read a bit here or there, even have a bash at a "harmony of the gospels" - but in depth looking at the Man's lifestyle, his prayers, his words generally? Nah, that's for someone else, y'know, the people in the churches and denominations. If Jesus is the fulfilment of the law for righteousness, what laws did he fulfil? How? What Wayfers look at that? What Wayfers consider the OT? And the OT's relevance to us now? Because that does still have relevance to what we do now. And (Wayfers! here's news!) Jesus has relevance to our lives now, too!

Sorry if those posts were a bit long and a bit too self-revelatory. Well no. I'm not sorry. I got a life after TWI and I'm proud of it.

Praise the lord, when I was looking for work in 2006, God opened an amazing door for me to return to the legal profession, found me friends, found me somewhere to live (rented room) and then a house (to buy). The people I initially stayed with belonged to a church and invited me along. I went with some fear and a lot of suspicion. And I wept through the whole of that first service. It was healing, clean tears, washing away the hurt and pain of TWI. I could feel myself being strengthened. I felt clean, safe. Nobody asked me a thing, just passed me some tissues and clearly realised talking wasn't what was needed. Decided to go back the next week - every week for the next 6 months I wept at some point. After a year or two, I was part of a church plant in a more deprived part of my city. The original commitment was, if I recall right, three years, but most of us are still at the church plant, which is now very strongly established and dominant in bringing help of all kinds to the community. We do do lots of things together as a church family, and they're fun. And we do lots of things in our individual workplaces too. Charity, if you can, find a good, outward-facing church, engaged with the community around it, that will build you up first, so that you can then go out and help others. It's as you do that, that you will find out how God works in you.

Thanks, Charity. I do a lot of things very quietly on my own. I lost my job in big layoffs in 2008 when the economy tanked. Eventually I set up as a self-employed "go-fer" and doing anything that came to hand - principally gardening, but it's anything that people need. One thing leads to another. So I've done people's gardens and gone on to paper their rooms or paint something; I fix small things, attach rails, mend broken stuff, sew on buttons; I take people to hospitals and other appointments; clean their houses and carpets; draft legal documents; help claim government grants and other financial assistance; I currently hold power of attorney for some elderly clients - well, only one now, the husband died - and I organised his funeral and everything around that; I visit my clients in hospital and read or pray with them as they are about to die; and I do very much more for people. Nearly all my clients are very elderly. They may have adult (retired age) children, but they don't live near. Or they may have no-one at all. I've noticed that many of my clients are themselves Christians but often haven't been to church for a long, long time because they can't get there. So we have "spiritual" conversations sometimes. I get to know their families and major contacts, and they're happy for me to help, and I can bless them too by keeping an eye on their elderly loved ones. And so this circle of love and trust keeps expanding. When a client dies, moves to live with family, or move to live in a care home (or otherwise dispenses with my services), I see that an an opportunity. And I say, "Okay, Dad, who do you want me to serve now?" and out of the blue someone will ring and ask if I can help. They may have a very old flyer that I put out when I first started, or a friend gave them my number, or they saw me working in someone's garden... I never advertise now. And I always have exactly the amount of work that I need. No more, and no less. Just what I can handle. Don't you think that it's so amazing that God would meet my need (to work, to have an income) and match me with some elderly person who needs work done? I have to say: God is the best employment agency. And the best employer! Another thing I noticed is that I quickly become the trusted person that my client turns to. God puts me in position and we build up a relationship. And then some disaster strikes: client gets ill, has a stroke, a fall; etc etc - and I'm the go-to person. Because that trust relationship is already there. All this comes, Charity, from a simple trust relationship. I have only my God to rely on. No-one else supports me, gives me money. I put myself totally at God's service and say, "What do you want me to do?" And a door opens for me. And I go through it and see who's on the other side. No plan, just: How can I help? It seems that everything that I've done in my life points to where I am now, serving in the capacity that I can now. All my clients and their families know I am a committed Christian and that I help them as an expression of that Christian commitment. I don't go on about it in conversation, no heavy "witnessing" sessions, but when we chat, I touch on what I do and things I pray for, and let my actions bear witness for me. And the benefit for me is that the more I put my trust in God, the more trustworthy he becomes. No, that's not right. I mean, the more I trust God, the more I am able to trust God in and for the future.

What?!!!!!!!!!! Rosalie wanted to hoard TWI's $$ and said it would be a legal issue? To spend some to help a person in need? And the founder's widow, at that? How Christian is that? Total rubbish!!!! It's not "healthcare," it's common decency and compassion (well, not so "common" in TWI, grr!). Makes one wonder how much Rosalie has salted away to meet her own eventual healthcare needs.

Nice, Chocky.