Twinky

Really? Wherever did they drag that idea in from? oh never mind... Never heard that before. Can these spirit beings feel pain, then? How can physical pain be caused to something that doesn't have a physical body?

"You can learn as much hitchhiking as you can from studying the book of Genesis" ???? Okay, "teacher" - let's see, when was the time you hitchhiked? (Except on the shoulders of giants when you pinched their work)? One of the best times I had was wandering around in the mountains on my own for three weeks. Completely alone. An overnight layover in a little hamlet to re-stock my food. Everything (tent and all) except water carried on my back. Saw a handful of people the first week; "enjoyed" a minor earthquake; hitched a lift with strangers to the hamlet. Saw only one person on the first day the second couple of weeks or 10 days or whatever it was. Lotsa miles, not sure the mileage; distances are measured in days to take, not miles or km. I enjoyed "just being." How can you replicate that on LEAD?

Too right! I do think there were some that were motivated more by jealousy. "...you have an education, I didn't 'get the opportunity,' I'll bully you for having had the opportunity." Heh heh, perhaps they hadn't the "stayed mind" enough to take the opportunity to get an education when they were offered it. Education was definitely mocked. If one has learned to think and evaluate...what I got, constantly, was: "You are leaning to your own understanding. You are not trusting God. You are too carnally-minded." And then the clincher: "You are not meek to the Word" (because you do not obey me/dare to question me, your leader.) Interesting now that some of those people have to get on in the world (not being with TWI any more) that they have - gone and got an education. Trained for something and got some qualifications. I wonder if, now that they have their secular qualifications, they mock those who do not have any qualifications - the junior staff in whatever organizations they work in, for example.

I think he was angry all right - but at himself, his wife...maybe VPW. Couldn't express it to those people so took it out on the Corps, especially the in-rez Corps. Perhaps LCM was the biggest dupe of all. But he didn't have to be the biggest prat (I'm being nice) of all.

Interesting that this thread, "Confronting LCM" is so named. No-one could really confront the Great Man during his tenure. I honestly don't think he can be unaware of the Cafe and the things that get discussed here. Word gets around! Maybe he lurks...I doubt it though. But he won't come here and be confronted. Much less apologize. Both would require rather too much humility. Or, to use his favorite word, "meekness." No. Not his style at all.

I find that a bit hard to believe. If as alleged elsewhere here they have over $57million in the bank - I can't see they only had $200K left. That $57m money in the bank has been there a long time. On current numbers, they couldn't manage to bring in that much, surely? That would mean bringing in about $3.8m surplus every year since the policy was cancelled. Much more than $3.8m, when you take running costs and salaries for remaining staff into account as well. But I can see it might drain their current ("operating") account and use up most of the annual ABS so that the $57m capital nest-egg didn't build up any more. What a thing that would be - to use the ABS for "moving the word" and paying field staff to get out there and DO something. (Even better if HQ staff had to get out there and do something...LOL)

That's pretty awesome, mstar1. Donating their food...!

TWI wouldn't like the zippy song. Nor the enthusiasm of the performers. Nor the enthusiasm of the audience. And especially not the huge number of people there... ...enjoying themselves. How great is our God - to rescue us from all that meanness of heart.

Cara, LCM was "spiritually angry." That's why the face meltings. He was always spiritually angry. Could be fun when relaxed, but you were always walking on eggshells in case that spiritual anger erupted again. Yeah, I bet he has less spiritual anger or even ordinary human anger, in Home Depot or wherever he found a job. Wouldn't last long with the temper tantrums. He forgot all about this, or deemed it irrrelevant: Gentle. Comfort. Yeah right. These scriptures were also used to justify the yelling sessions: 1 Corinthians 3:2 KJV I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. Hebrews 5:12 KJV For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. We were spiritually mature enough not to need milk and could endure the yelling sessions due to our maturity. He wasn't going to soft-soap (or soft-milk) us. Not going to treat us nicely. We should be able to handle it. After all - we were the elite. We were Corps. Aaaaarrrrgggghhhhh!!!!

Good to be reminded about, Socrates. Know just what you mean, Geisha. Unfortunately I did get to spend time with him...when it couldn't be avoided. Facemeltings and all.

Hey, I'm not for hoarding! I've been stuck in the box too long, you're not hoarding me into another!(Hey, but I wouldn't mind spending a little time with you and Tonto.)

I got this junk even before I took PFAL and thought it was trash then. Why couldn't God speak to a wife, a woman, if that was what was needed? What, God's not smart enough to talk to women? Women aren't smart enough to hear? Something about a woman's "head being covered" or some such. Just another of those things that they used to abuse and weaken women. In the guise of "meekness" or "submission." Abuse God too. Cos I'm jolly sure he never said or meant any such thing. Amen, sistah! I think a lot of us could say that.

Can't add much except that whoever this person is, s/he (he??) still has a lot to learn about compassion and just plain being kind. Taking pot shots at the messenger (you, Excie) isn't going to help anybody at all.

Well, of course, salt just = commitment. But I have to agree with Johniam (!) on this - that water baptism as the evidence of commitment was laughed at - but the little dish of salt as evidence of commitment - was applauded. Other symbols - like wedding rings as evidence of commitment - weren't commented on. First, however, TWI had taught about the seriousness of breaking the salt covenant. It went through a lot of Corps in rez teaching. So it became a chain to enslave. Or maybe it was a "ring through the nose" so that Corps could be led wherever the Prez wanted. I was worried about "breaking the covenant" when I first got dropped. Then I began to think differently - in my heart I was salted to serve God - not TWI. I still have a little dish of salt, a gift from my elder Corps, when I graduated. And I still serve God.

Clearly the ABS doesn't stretch as far as buying - at least the modern-day standard program, Word - whether or not it's the "best" program, who knows. And probably the "bset" equipment to run it on. Computers are pretty much out of date after a very few years. Bet they keep theirs going for way way beyond the normal business use-by date. WordPerfect...how arcane is that, now? But great on an out of date computer.... (double post, somehow)

This is a great topic and one which is debated not just amongst ex-Wayfers. Really it belongs in Doctrinal. But do carry on!

Maybe you're giving a little too much credit here. Did he "search and search"? - sounds like a plan. Whereas it just may be that it was a "happy coincidence" that he came across something from someone living not too close, which he could plunder and pass off as his own, and took that opportunity.

Soccy, I always thought that pretty weird, too. Especially, if you knew some of the people, and you knew they really were good for God. And then suddenly they're not. If you listened to Craig, he said: he was meek to others when he first took over as Prez and some (specifically and especially Geer, the PotP paper and subsequent incidents) used it as a way of attacking him. He "lost his way" and we all wandered into the "fog years." He said it felt like he was sitting in a boat on the lake, could hear the people on the shore talking or calling, but couldn't find the way back to the shore. He got fat and (though he doesn't say it) sounds clinically depressed. Finally he realized it was all coming from Geer and a "me or him" approach came about. He "drew a line in the sand" and many left. Then he carried on teaching as God inspired him. In this time, he says, a Corps woman, on staff I think he said but not in a "high" position, told him his teaching were now really great and he was moving forward. He lost weight and gained aggression. This is his backing to carry on the way he progressed: confronting those who spoke against him, and understanding that others were backing him. Now the PotP is a terrible thing in so many ways. Was there any real sense of where LCM was "wrong" or serious attempt to confront him? Geer was an arrogant psycho and personally I can hardly think badly enough about him. Could others have supported LCM in the early stages so that it didn't all go to H in a handbasket? He probably was grieving and perhaps depressed at the death of his champion, his mentor, his Teacher, VPW. He idolized him too much to want to listen to anyone who didn't back him. LCM had burned his own "red flags" long ago and when he came out of the fog it was as a die-hard confrontationalist full of anger at his own weakness and specifically anger at his wife. who was, or was becoming, too close to Rosalie. That anger has got to go somewhere. And those who "confronted" him got the brunt. "Off with his head!" - or at least, "Off with his reputation!" And when he'd got rid of all the genuine ministers/prophets (if there were any), they were closely followed by all the WC and who would dare be so "unmeek" as to raise their head above the parapet?

Read someone else's work? :biglaugh: Open discussion? :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

I was regretting before I even started. I'd felt pressured into signing up but having given my word, wasn't going to back away from my word. Let your yes be yes, and all that stuff. Don't let yourself get tricked out by the devil. Once I got in rez, I found that other things were expected of me...like that I would be discouraged from returning to the former kind of work that I did (where I had expected to be able to move the word in my specialist area), but that to consider doing that would be "returning to vomit." And I was expected to be ready to move anywhere, any time... I knew this wasn't what I'd signed up for. I thought it was my own fault for not investigating enough before signing up. Later I realized it was part of their normal tactics of "moving the goalposts." In short, their "yes" wasn't "yes" but just an inducement.

Now guys...you are way off topic here. It's a soapbox for John. And he hasn't raised computer wizardry - yet.

Johniam, your post 276 shows a rather better side of you. I am not trying to "put you down" - I was trying to think how it is you don't seem to have any empathy. Like knowing all the words and what the words mean, but not knowing the sense of the words. Which is what happens with Asperger's syndrome people and some forms of autism. I think you will understand that, as you have a couple of kids with the problem. Yes, such kids do respond to love and can often be more overtly affectionate than kids without. And they're often significantly gifted in something (drawing, music, swimming...) Abuser/abusee relationships are complex and although objectively most people can see that there is something wrong, the participants have their own "normal." When someone has had their self-esteem eroded over a long, long period, it takes enormous efforts to overcome it. The desire to "please" or fear / expectation of violence is strong. It can often be found in domestic violence situations. DV is more than physical violence: it can include emotional and financial abuse too. Some judges have refused to take women seriously because they simply cannot understand why women don't walk out. But until quite recently most judges have been "male and pale" (white men) who don't understand women, or people from different cultural backgrounds. Expand your horizons, John. First, do some research on abuser/abusee situations. And then think what practical help you could offer. Quoting scripture verses just won't cut it.

Yep, LCM's teachings were major rants. Soon after I went in rez he spent the two hours or whatever going on and on and on about how devilish homosexuality was. "Well," I thought, "If anyone had doubts or actually did that stuff, they surely know now how wrong it is." The same again next week. I thought: "There must be something very serious here. Who is not listening?" Then the next week. And the one after. And for some months. I learned more than I care to know about what LCM says homosexuals do. Is any of it true? Who knows? And the defaming...I've shared here before about a Rev whose daughter died (I believe she'd got into drugs in an effort to cope with her TWI upbringing). Instead of compassion, LCM banned anyone from speaking to Rev and his wife. Rev was clearly not fit to be a minister because he didn't have good oversight of his household. Anyone who spoke to them was to be M&A'd. (You can tell LCM had a longsuit in compassion and empathy, can't you?) Another man's wife died in childbirth (the child survived). It was the parents' (epecially the wife's) fault because she didn't listen to some TWI-head of a doctor. And the wife was too egotistical and insisted in giving birth in the way she wanted to. (There's that longsuit in compassion again!) I could go on... Yet sometimes he could bring that energy into expounding a piece of scripture. And then it seemed (to me, at the time) to be rich and passionate. ('Course, I had serious Waybrain then.) Some of it was genuinely interesting. I thought it awesome at the time. When he stopped being so angry and settled down to teach in a reasonable manner, it could be very interesting. Does it have some value now? I'd have to say, just reading and spending time thinking, meditating, reflecting...has far more value. And is far more memorable. Remember, under LCM's reign of terror, we were taught to be confrontational. We had a responsibility before God to confront error. I think it only impressed, really, because I'd heard too many wishy washy sermons in a previous church life and no church minister seemed passionate for God. I remember how he presented - not what he presented. But now... ...if I were to listen to any Corps Night teaching now...what would I think? Probably, this guy's a nutter. God doesn't deal with people like that. JC didn't condemn the mass of people like that, only the hypocrites. JC's disciples didn't condemn people but reached out with practical help. And this man who yells and gets red in the face, spittle flying...has what part, exactly, in the ministry of reconciliation?

Huh, the words to "Family of God" are so different. Can see why it became WC only - the WC anthem - to keep the plagiarism secret.

(shakes head sorrowfully) Is it possible Johniam could suffer from Asperger's syndrome? I can't think why else he would be so obsessed with one principal idea (about VP) and so lacking in empathy to other people - and so quick to jump from one thing to another and never stay on topic. Aspergers syndrome Sorry, that's a bit personal, John, but I really do not understand why you don't empathize and follow along with conversations. If there's a reason, I think we'd all be glad to cut you some slack. Penworks, good to see you on this thread. You don't seem to have been around for a while.