Twinky

I like what Broken Arrow says, about "integrity" having the sense of ability to withstand pressure, the breaking point, etc. ...Didn't Wierwille also say, "The scriptures cannot be broken"? Therefore, in that sense, the integrity of the Word was never at stake, as the Word will (he also said) never reach breaking point. Word Salad...interesting description.

Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft ... says the Bible. A favorite accusation of TWI is to accuse others of rebellion, which is "as the sin of witchcraft" - said darkly and having taught us that witches should be put to death. "Watch out, then, or you become even more worthy of death!" goes the hidden agenda. At no time did I ever hear an explanation of what "witchcraft" was - there was, of course, the "junk table" at the adv class, which we were not encouraged to look at. That's some modern form of witchcraft...but what about its usage at the time? Can we guess at that? And this from a ministry that was into "use in its context." Did TWI define this term? No way! What did the context mean, then? Perhaps what was happening at the time of Moses when he challenged Pharaoh? Or the witches whom Saul sought advice from? But what did TWI mean, conjuring tricks? Another of their stock accusations was, "You are not meek enough!" Rebellion was also seen as lack of meekness. Even something as simple as suggesting a better way to do something, when one had expertise in that area yet faced with a "leader" or "coordinator" who didn't have expertise. Therefore, perhaps, witchcraft is lack of meekness...retaining one's critical thinking...one's integrity. And, thereby, refusing to submit to the overall control of TWI and its thought police. Refusing to submit to the ultimate controllers - the ultimate "witches" as defined within this thread. And here I thought that Jesus died to set us free - from the control of adversaries. Silly me.

Can you post a link to that teaching?

Craig's take was that he was reprimanded for arranging the death of the cuckolded husband - not for seducing the wife. But actually, in view of later events due to Craig's own behaviour - he didn't heed that either. One husband (at least) has killed himself over his wife's relationship with LCM. Anyway the pair of 'em, LCM and VPW, don't possess Bibles with Exodus 20:14 in them.

There used to be a button where readers could print a topic and it would present in an editable Word document - could be edited, printed, saved. (Okay that was a few migrations ago, Paw has shifted this site a bit since I first got here and printed off screeds to read at leisure because I couldn't believe my eyes at what I was reading.) But how can I now print off topics (or more accurately save relevant bits) from ongoing topics here?

Well, I went and joined the ExWay site but it doesn't let me do anything that I couldn't do before registering. Perhaps that's something that'll happen when a person (not a program) looks at joining requests. Or maybe not... (shrug)

Heck, you're almost making me envious that there aren't any TWI still-ins near me! Some of you have such fun winding them up. I do know some other exTWI folk, not with TWI any more, and some of those are still "standing on the truth" they had learned. We're friends. I appreciate they aren't being nasty about it, just set in their views, and I'm not nasty back. But there are areas of conversation that need to be skated round - where we have to agree to differ. No point in picking a fight unnecessarily.

Well, I doubt anybody is watching this thread now as GSC is about to close down, but just in case: Tuxedo is turning into a real fuss-puss, loves to be fondled and when I am using the computer, feels the need to walk up and down on the back of the adjacent couch, rubbing up against me and rubbing faces. She also eases her way onto my lap, stamps around on me, and tries typing on the keyboard. She has a lovely happy purr. She also likes to lie on my chest with her head over my shoulder and relax a little. But it's in her time. You'd think she was nearly a normal cat. Until you realise she only does this with me. My Mum came to visit over Christmas and she hid all the time. Was captured with difficulty and held by Mum under great protest. When Mum went home after her visit, Tuxy avoided me for several days. She runs off even if people she knows well come to visit. She runs off and hides under the table or the chairs or anywhere else inaccessible, if I try to pick her up when I'm in some other location than by my computer. Crypto meanwhile is enjoying gentle strokes along her back and head and all along her body. She shows herself quite happily to people. Dosen't come near, but shows herself. She rubs round chair legs, other furniture, and occasionally hands - never against human legs. After 3 years, I still haven't picked her up. She is getting a bit of a voice on her and will now miaow at me if she wants something (like food, or more likely, play). She plays enthusiastically with people she knows. They love the cat flap and seem to have settled quite a lot since it was fitted and they can come and go at will during daylight hours (I don't let them out at night). They hated all the snow we had recently, refused to go out at all, and glared at me or looked "winningly" as if the snow were all my fault and I could or should make it all go away. Rain is also my fault, LOL. In about 20 years I might have "normal" cats that can be picked up. Oh wait...cats don't usually live that long. Ah well. I love 'em anyway and they do give me pleasure. So much better than they were. Over and out, then, on this thread.

Ach, I thought the site had vanished forever despite Paw saying it was to stay open for just a little longer. I missed this place! So glad it's up again!

Thanks for letting us know your decision, Catcup. Sounds like the right one, in the circumstances. Your middle names are not "Punchbag" or "Doormat" and you are exactly right to withdraw from those who cause dissention.

What the heck is THE?

Ye , Mark, I've heard that as an explanation too. I think I prefer the "meal" explanation especially since even now RCs celebrate with a "meal" - symbolic tokens of wafer and wine. And Christmas is renownedly a time of feasting and celebration...albeit on a pagan foundation. Welcome, POAE, you've joined just in time to hear the bolts of the Cafe door as it closes for the first and last time. Enjoy your short stay, and let me shout you a glass of something tasty. Does your screen name mean something special?

Hah! I just clicked on the FB link above and have been offered as a Friend someone ... let's say, that I don't care to spend time with. Just because I added someone I do care to spend time with, as a Friend. I kinda like being here, anonymously. And conversing with others, anonymously. We all change...a bit. We were all changed...badly, sometimes, by TWI. Some got better afterwards, and some got worse. Maybe I converse here with some from TWI that I would not care to spend time with. But while there is a "history" with not-so-nice-Fred-from-TWI, there isn't a history with cuppa-java-Fred-from-GSC.

"Adam and Eve on a Raft" is poached eggs on toast, not tasty link sausages in a delicious moist and crisp-on-top batter.

Sure ticks me off when I go to church and they "invite" Jesus to come, or the Holy Spirit to come, or whatever. Makes me want to rush up to the front of the church and demand to know of the leadership - if he never leaves us or forsakes us - if where we are gathered together, there he is - if, lo, he will never leave us - if God is ever listening to our prayers ---- who the heck are they "inviting"? And...who are they to "invite" anyway - if it's God's house? They're still a nice buncha people, though. Sincere, even if wrong. Which has got to be better than insincere and wrong.

I've met a few people from CFFM and some of them (who now fancy themselves as ordained) are just the same. You ask them something and they'll spout away about their favorite bit of scripture, never pausing for breath or even to look at you. No interest in why you might have asked a question. It's all ego and self-love. No attempt to meet any kind of need, give any kind of answer. An over-dependence on this verse: "For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified." But they take this out of context, which is this: "1 When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.<a name="8">" In other words, to those who were already believers, and then speaking with them with meekness and respect.; in demonstrating God's power - which would include showing how God could help in a situation - not with words and more words and yet more words about how many scriptures they know - but only as mere words. Like the words have no practical application in a personal context. Can't help thinking that's exactly how Jesus didn't answer questions from those genuinely wanting answers. And don't take this wrong - not getting at CFFM in this response (don't know enough about them), only at one or two of their "ministers".

Middle English (ie, between Chaucer and Shakespeare) gives a definition relating to the meaning of "mass" as intricately linked to "feast days" in the church. Somewhat later than Middle English, the word "mass" came to mean an amorphous lump of material (including food - like dough, or stew - the "mess of pottage") - then came "mass" meaning a lot of people came into use. This meaning had more recently been acquired - but was in use by 1604 - and had been acquired by the time the KJV was prepared. In other words, "Christ-mass" is a meal to celebrate Christ. And at what other time of year do we eat so much, as at Christmas? It's really a Christian overlay on a very much more ancient pagan aor animist traditions to do with Yule logs, trees, and fertility. Probably with other overlays of Greek and Roman pre-Christian fertility rites and orgies - Bacchanalia and all that. Gotta keep yourself warm on cold winter nights somehow!

D'ya mean I can open a new FB account for "Twinky" separate from my account in my real name? But that if I do so, FB will figure out who is in my real-name address book or FB account, and suggest those people as friends for Twinky?

I never heard even the dim LCM say anything about "mass"acre. I believe it may come from the old English (and before that, probably old German or Norse or some such) "mass" or "mess" meaning meal. As in a mess (dining or common room) in military terms. A "mass" in religious terms is where the eucharistic tokens of bread/wafer and wine are taken, symbolising a "meal" and most commonly seen in "communion" services of Protestant churches and still called "mass" by RCs. Over time, the name for the type of service associated with the "meal" service has become the name for the type of service itself regardless of whether "mess" or "meal" is taken. But anyway... Happy Christmas, and a bright New Year to all. Have an enjoyable holiday break (if working) and may 2011 bring you an increase in personal satisfaction with life, in whatever form that takes for you.

It doesn't really matter to me which tribe - or how many angels, Waysider. I'm just a bit surprised that having announced that we (yes, we) are the real Israel, as well as being the Body of Christ, the true church / called out, the faithful remnant -- our beloved leaders didn't seek to further categorize us as some other type of believer / Israel. And having condemned millions of faithful, compassionate, loving and giving Christians practicing mainstream Christianity, surprising our beloved leaders didn't seek to categorize them as unstable, or cruel, or lazy (Issachar), or judgmental backbiters (Dan) - but that might mean having to give a word of praise, too. Obviously, and I mean this completely (in)sincerely, folks, TWI would be Joseph. Genesis 49: 3 Reuben, thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning of my strength, the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power: 4 Unstable as water, thou shalt not excel ; because thou wentest up to thy father's bed; then defiledst thou it: he went up to my couch. 5 Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments of cruelty are in their habitations. 6 O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united : for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall. 7 Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel : I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel. 8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise : thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies ; thy father's children shall bow down before thee. 9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up : he stooped down , he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up ? 10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come ; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. 11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his foot's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: 12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk. 13 Zebulun shall dwell at the haven of the sea; and he shall be for an haven of ships; and his border shall be unto Zidon. 14 Issachar is a strong foot couching down between two burdens: 15 And he saw that rest was good, and the land that it was pleasant ; and bowed his shoulder to bear , and became a servant unto tribute. 16 Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. 17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. 18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD. 19 Gad, a troop shall overcome him: but he shall overcome at the last. 20 Out of Asher his bread shall be fat, and he shall yield royal dainties. 21 Naphtali is a hind let loose : he giveth goodly words. 22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall: 23 The archers have sorely grieved him , and shot at him, and hated him : 24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd , the stone of Israel:) 25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb: 26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren. 27 Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil. 28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel: and this is it that their father spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them. Glad I'm out...and can choose to be who I want to be, in Christ.

Just testing - doesn't seem to want to add a post.

Peace and good will to all. :) But some can keep their distance. That way, peace and goodwill can be maintained.

So, Catcup, when is the wedding? And what does your heart tell you about attending? You said you'd already made your decision. I say, go, if you reasonably can. Make sure your person knows you're there (get some photos). Be ready with some appropriate scriptures for anyone who gets mean with you (like, which part of that comment you just made fits within Phil 4:8, or Gal 6:10(a) or 1 Cor 13:4? or some other verse of your choosing) And at the get-together afterwards - leave, if you feel uncomfortable, unsafe, got at, picked on, etc. You'll have the photographic evidence that you were there for the ceremony. But probably you'll just have a good time, and enjoy the people you meet. Unless the invitation to you is merely a "token" invitation, your relative and new spouse have invited everyone because they want these guests there, they like them, and they want to share this special occasion with all of you. You could also look forward to it as being a time of healing - for repairing and reconciling some of the more strained relationships you might have with some Wayfers. You don't have to be best buddies thereafter - just reconciled. Not at daggers drawn.

Bit late in the day to be starting something in Doctrinal, but something just occurred to me. You’ve heard VPW and LCM teaching about “crossing the Jordan” and “the Promised Land” as being the new birth and the renewed mind. And you’ve probably heard them teach that we, the standing (Way) believers of our day and time, are the “true Israel.” Note, the promises were given to Israel – the individual. And "we" are his true descendants. The deathbed blessings of the man Israel (recorded in Genesis 49) upon his various descendants were given "by revelation." From this background springs the nation of Israel, of which there were 12 tribes. Historically the northern tribes became vassals of Assyria and other empires and are never heard of individually, and became known as the “lost tribes.” The southern tribe of Benjamin became assimilated into the larger tribe of Judah (hence, the Jews). So…if we are the true Israel…are we also members of individual tribes of Israel? It’s almost a wonder to me now that LCM in particular didn’t try to fit those who left TWI (whether voluntarily or not) and perhaps also those who attend mainstream churches, into one or other of the 12 tribes based on the characteristics mentioned when the original blessings were pronounced. Even, if you like, wrap up tribal allocation with the apeitheia/apisteia teachings – for surely some of the progenitors of those tribes had heard enough but didn’t act on what they’d heard. This looks ripe as a topic for some significant private interpretation (not that I'm going there - just commenting on where others didn't go). But perhaps neither VPW nor LCM found anyone’s research to plagiarize and present as “new knowledge.”

I don't think they'd be keen to expand membership of the CU to non-Wayfers, locals or not. After TWI kicked me out, a couple of years later, the CU kicked me out as well. Can't have "unbelievers" contaminating the worthy CU.