Twinky

DWBH: for real? How much grossing-out can there be? (and NO don't tell me, enough is enough!) I'm still nauseous over the stuff you told me in PM.

Very funny, WW

WC32, my oh my, I begin to feel old. If they were still denoting Corps in that way, they'd be on WC45 or thereabouts now. Aren't they called "Class of xxxx" nowadays? so I've read here. Actually I reckon they must be back to the Zero Corps now - can't imagine a huge number of people wanting to throw their lives away in this cult. The days of Corps intakes in the hundreds are long gone, never to return. TWI'd never admit that no-one wants to sign up - would say instead that people of appropriate calibre haven't applied, or some such lie.

Quite, Chockfull.

FOR MIKE: Please follow this link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism Observe the definitions. Observe how references are set out. The references are RIGHT THERE in the text at the point where work is referred to, copied or quoted. The references point to footnotes, where the precise location of the original idea or phrase is noted. Sometimes these footnotes are placed right at the bottom of the page on which they occur (as in Wiki articles); sometimes at the end of each chapter in a book; and sometimes collected together at the end of the book under the different chapter headings. Everything is CLEARLY IDENTIFIABLE. Any student who has submitted a thesis for a first degree (Bachelor's degree) or an advanced degree (Master's or Doctorate) will have completed that thesis by referencing other people's work in this manner. Therefore, if VPW had indeed got (firstly) a bachelor's degree in some aspect of theology, and (secondly) a doctorate, he'll have learned to quote other people's work in this manner. Not to do so certainly would not fall within appropriate academic standards, and may lead to an accusation of plagiarism. And he will have been sternly warned about plagiarism, copying the works of others, without giving appropriate credit. Quoting too much of someone else's original work (ie, what the original author writer has found out for him/herself, and building on the shoulders of the giants they have referenced and footnoted) will also lead to problems, this time of copyright infringement. It's only okay, if there is written permission from the author. I'll leave it to you to look up "copyright" in Wikipedia or some such. In essence, both plagiarism and copyright infringement are theft of intellectual property. Theft of ideas, of thought processes. Potentially leading to loss of other people's financial rewards for their intellectual property. Plagiarism and breach of copyright are not victimless crimes. VPW wanted us to think that he was a learned man. Why then didn't he act like a learned man, one deserving of academic respect? He wanted "his people" to act like learned students. Why not then give them the tools to do so? By that I mean, the appropriate references to reputable authors, their works, their research. It's not enough to sell The Companion Bible in the bookstore. CB was out of copyright, which is why VPW was happy to use it and let "his people" use it. Nevertheless, even then VPW didn't supply proper references. just pinched stuff wholesale from the careful appendices.

Ah, GVC, our esteemed leader was "spiritually angry" and we too had to learn what to be spiritually angry about. What he was really angry about was nothing particularly spiritual - it was his wife and Rosalie gettin' it together in more ways than one. Hence, no doubt, his homo rants.

I believe Jesus Christ can heal all manner of diseases, whether by casting out devil spirits, or directly healing, or working through the hands, minds and skills of medical staff. Thank God we live in a time where there are ways of combatting the diseases! Thank God we live long enough to get these diseases (emphasis on the "living long enough"). I learned long ago that praying for healing doesn't preclude the use of drugs to get rid of disease. I sometimes wonder if the "leprosy" of OT books like Lev 14, 15 etc might be referring not to leprosy as we now understand it but to cancers of various types. Certainly more modern translations when referring to diseased people often translate "leprosy" as "serious skin disease." Could be cancers that's actually being discussed. Chemo and radiation treatment aren't fun, but they surely beat the alternative of dying a painful death. Glad you've come through it well, GVC.

lThe thing is, GVC, much of what they did didn't seem like "control" at the time, because those who were "controlled" had been beaten into submission or at least compliance. The control exerted over us was insidious. It was more overt once one joined the in-rez WC - in fact, we were told it was spiritual bootcamp for three months - but the three months never ended, it just got more and more controlling with so much busywork that there was no time to realise how controlling everything had become. That's the nature of cults. And unfortunately, like many practices of TWI, it started off (apparently) good and sensible. Some people do have real time management difficulties. They let time drift away and don't achieve what they should - whether it's washing the car, or getting their (paid) job done - because they waste that time watching TV, playing computer games, or watching paint dry. So to have a plan for the day can be quite helpful - probably we all do it naturally to some extent. If you are an employee, your boss may also have a time managed plan for your day. If you're self-employed, you certainly need to manage time, if you want to make a sufficient profit. To review where one actually spent the time and whether it matched the plan can be really valuable. The same also applies to money management - as a qualified debt adviser, I can tell you a zillion ways people waste money when they're deep in debt because they haven't a clue how to handle money within a budget. I am constantly amazed by people's inventiveness when it comes to how they spend their money on non-essentials when there isn't enough for what they must pay for. TWI of course took both time and financial management to an extreme. In rez Corps have an allowance monthly, not enough, and it has to cover all incidentals (like mailing letters to spiritual partners) as well as doing laundry, buying books and materials, tithing, etc. To get everyone to do time management is also useful - we all have a finite number of hours in which to work, eat, play and sleep. TWI used everything not as a help or guide, but as a big cosh to beat people. One size fits all: so the biggest cosh came out to beat everyone with. But the big cosh started out as a seeming wise word, then a gentle tap on the shoulder, then graduated to a slap on the wrist, then a slap with a slipper, then a whack with a bamboo cane... you get the idea. It's only if you'd seen the cosh at the beginning and known they planned to use it, that you'd have fled from the control.

Topic is: Is it okay to recommend Weirwille's books to others? Not: Is it okay to continue Mike's soap opera? Puh-leeze!!! Though the soap opera might be entertaining for some of the newer people here, for a while.

Not to mention others who never were Corps grads - some never completed, and some never started Corps training.

If it's run by M and J, higherground, what's become of F?

Quite, TLC. Unless CG has really changed his spots. Only Johniam can really tell us what organization it is that he attends.

TLC, I found this by just putting the name Johniam quoted in Google search box: http://stlouisbiblefellowship.net/ But I suspect it might be some other organization. Doesn't look Geerite. Johniam - I'd really have doubts about hanging out with a Geerite group. After the ***disgusting*** and belittling way he treated the European believers when he'd been exiled out of the USA, and the devastation that he caused at HQ, I simply do not think the man can be trusted. His ego is so huge that ... well, faith can move mountains. But it doesn't move CG. His ego must be much bigger than a mountain.

Really good to hear that, Johniam. Is St. Louis Bible Fellowship an offshoot of TWI? Or some completely independent organization with never any link with TWI? A quick look at its website suggests not.

Most churches have at least two people counting the collection and opening the donation envelopes. To double check the money - and to double-check each other. In larger churches more people would be required. Of course, all TWI needed was a shovel to park it straight into the coffers. Can't speak for offshoots. Hopefully they are on a better footing... CFFM probably is, can't speak for any others.

Here ya go, OS.

Do you prefer brandy or whisky?

Tom Knupp, huh? Never heard of him. Perhaps he was M&A'd before I got to HQ. I was told it was translated by JYdL. so of course I believed it. But I can also easily believe that it was someone else. A bit off topic, but I also understood that J0rge H!itchf3ld did the Spanish version of the PFAL book. Anyone know if that's true? Or not?

We've done VPW, thankfully to death. I don't know how much contact VPW himself would actually have had with someone like JYdL, very minimal - the other trustees and the dancing Prez would have done much more to "develop" JYdL and his wife. So, to bring this thread back to the topic - anybody know anything much about JYdL? You newer escapees, what do you know of him, if anything? I quite liked the man I last saw - gosh, would be over 20 years ago now. He didn't strike me as future Prez material (but then, why should he have done?) but as quiet, obedient and committed. He was very busy, in International Outreach, translated the PFAL books into French and recorded the French version of PFAL. And that must have been 30 years ago. It may be that being "quiet, obedient and committed" is precisely what's got him appointed as Prez.

Well, I'd PM you if you could receive messages, but apparently you can't. So I PM'd you via FB.

You are too funny, soxy one.

DWBH, I'm picking you don't like my Corps Coords very much... ah, shame. /sarc/ I'll PM you in a few hours when I get back home again.

Higher Ground, that bloody video - isn't one to be watched. It's so awful that it's unforgettable. Unfortunately. No thanks for reminding us all

Control, control, control. A Corps woman I knew wrote a song which she used to sing at our twig. It was a nice song, good, and we all liked it. Maybe she sent it in to HQ, maybe she sang it there, I don't know. Next thing I knew, M1ke Mart!n was singing this song from the stage at RoA, but the words had been changed slightly and a verse added. It became "his" song and I don't know if the Corps woman got any credit; I think she might have said it was part of Way Prods. She bravely said that the alterations had made it a better song, but even then I got the impression that she was being gracious about the hijacking of her song, and wasn't wholly happy about it.

Wasn't Pressed Down considered "pozzest" and their music banned? It was great music too. I recall we didn't understand what had happened and few destroyed (as instructed) their copies of cassettes. In fact, bootleg copies were made, of which I have or had one .