waysider

Moon Pies for everyone!

the ultimate foe You mean ?

And so, unto the world another child is born Nestled in his mother's arms the child's kept warm Knows not she the power that the child soon shall find The universe shall be his throne He'll smash the gates of time Knows not she the power that he soon shall utilize Secrets once well hidden men shall see then through his eyes Time and space shall not erase the wisdom he shall speak Men of time which lies ahead this wisdom then shall seek Look about you once again perhaps you'll see his smile shining through your brother's eyes Shining for the while

Only once....he was a "time" lord, you know.

William Shakespeare - To be, or not to be (from Hamlet 3/1) To be, or not to be: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep; No more; and by a sleep to say we end The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep; To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub; For in that sleep of death what dreams may come When we have shuffled off this mortal coil, Must give us pause: there's the respect That makes calamity of so long life; For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely, The pangs of despised love, the law's delay, The insolence of office and the spurns That patient merit of the unworthy takes, When he himself might his quietus make With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear, To grunt and sweat under a weary life, But that the dread of something after death, The undiscover'd country from whose bourn No traveller returns, puzzles the will And makes us rather bear those ills we have Than fly to others that we know not of? Thus conscience does make cowards of us all; And thus the native hue of resolution Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought, And enterprises of great pith and moment With this regard their currents turn awry, And lose the name of action. - Soft you now! The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons Be all my sins remember'd.

I think I see your point. If there is no eternal life, there can't be any awards presentation. The two are intertwined. I hadn't really thought about that when I started the thread. So, for the sake of argument, think of the eternal life as the sole reward.

When in Rome....

Are you Jesus?

I have to put myself in the "not sure" camp. Remember, now, the question is NOT whether you believe there is an "afterlife". (Yes, I know the term isn't strictly Biblical but it spans a variety of belief systems and is widely understood to mean that dimension which lies beyond the moment when we shed our mortal coil.) I used to think I was sure of that aspect when I still bought into the whole concept of speaking in tongues being the proof, etc. It must have been in about 1976,77,78...not sure... a group of Way Corps stayed with FellowLaborers one weekend on their way to some work assignment. They were all fired up about some new teaching that was being done for the Corps about eternal rewards and crowns or trophies at the Bema or some such thing. They spoke in a highly competitive manner about who was going to get he biggest and best and most bejeweled crowns. It really creeped me out, especially because no one else seemed to be bothered by it. I had never thought of it that way before. To my thinking, up to that point, you gave of yourself because it was what you chose in your heart to do. Doing the "right" thing, simply because you perceived it to be the right thing, not because you expected remuneration. In fact, my Mother, whom some of you knew personally, taught us when we were little kids, that to give because you expected something in return was a form of selfishness. I mean, isn't that why we all joined together for the FellowLaborer experience? Apparently not! That was a shocker. So, here I am in the sixth seventh decade of my life and it seems like just yesterday that I heard my Mother imparting these lessons in living. I like to think I would continue to try my best to live by The Golden Rule, regardless of what may or may not lie beyond.... and not beat myself up so bad when I fail to do so. For me, that last part has always been the toughest.

Not my answer, Leiber and Stoller's answer. They wrote the song, not me. No one is asking you or anyone else to "believe" anything. The question is really not all that complex. Simply stated, it's this:, "If you removed the "afterlife" (for lack of a better word) from Christianity and left everything else intact, what effect would that have on your perceptions/actions?" Wierwille posed the same question in PFAL. But, in PFAL, he supplied an answer, as well. He said, "We would have had the best time going." The "here-after" is a major component of many religions, not just Christianity. How can one be able to embrace or understand their particular faith and not be open to discussion of it's major tenets?

Yes, I think for a lot of people, that's the $64,000 question.

Here's one that's almost a "freebie". Freedom ain't worth nothin' but it's free.

Ah! That's "Go Now", the very first (and most atypical) hit for The Moody Blues. I actually prefer the original, myself. Bessie Banks

As always, participation is voluntary. It's too be bad we (self included) didn't become this animated when VPW posed this same scenario in PFAL. (requisite TWI reference) Remember VPW saying this?: "If we get to Heaven and find out it isn't there, we will have had the best time going." Same idea, just structured as a statement rather than a question. Then, a couple sessions later, he tosses the "once saved, always saved" concept into the mix. He does so with a caveat, of course. "I didn't say it, you did." He fortifies it with scripture (John 3:16). Gee, wouldn't that be swell if Adolph Hitler was exposed to Romans 10: 9&10 sometime in his youth? Or maybe you could spend eternity side by side with Charles Manson. Hmmmmm. could it really be that simple? Spend one millionth of a nano-second believing something and you're guaranteed an afterlife? Somehow, I think there is something missing from the premise. Later, sessions 11 & 12, he tosses in some free coupons for the batteries...."Don't you want to speak in tongues?...It's proof in the senses realm you're going to Heaven and all Hell can't stop you." So there you have it. Leave everything else in. Take the afterlife out. How would that change your view of Christianity?

Pretty straight forward, really. Think of Christianity as a package-deal sort of product, with the batteries representing an afterlife. What if the package didn't include batteries? (afterlife)... Would you still buy the product without the batteries? ....Yes/No/Not sure...Why or Why not? It's really just another way of stating what we all heard VPW postulate in PFAL. ("If we get to Heaven and find out it isn't there, etc. etc.")

I dug it! How about this old one from way back when?

If a watermelon fell in the lake and there were no cats Paddy's pig wasn't around to push it back out, did the watermelon make a splash?

I realize some folks here are Christian and some no longer are. With that is mind, feel free to adjust the verb tense (past or present) as you deem applicable. So.... what if the batteries weren't included? What if everything about Christianity remained the same EXCEPT for the afterlife part? (ie: No promise of an afterlife, just things that apply to life in the here and now.) Is/was that a "deal breaker" as they say? Please, no Sunday School lessons. Just a simple "yes/no/I'm not sure" and a brief explanation of why (or why not)

People have told me I'm a dead ringer for George Clooney. (Mostly blind people...)

Ha! It appears to have been a Guinness..

Well, by cracky, I think there was!!

If a watermelon fell in the lake and there were no cats around to push it back out, did the watermelon make a splash?

Well, you gotta do what you can to save the watermelon. It's part of that first tier. Food, and all that.

Not even a nibble? Ok---Here's the answer. .....ArgentFREE POST!!!