waysider

Did they (these various "offshoots") not assume the responsibility of stewardship?

If I understand your (diversonal) point correctly, here, you're implying that because these "laundry lists" aren't to be found in the Bible, we should, likewise, refrain from talking about the shortcomings of various so-called leaders. Guess what? These aren't Biblical times. This is real life in the 21st century. When leaders make unethical decisions, they open themselves to criticism from the congregation. That's how it should be. Checks and balances. If you really want to do something productive, sift through the scriptures for instructions detailing how the church's checks and balances system is supposed to function. There is plenty there to be found. It doesn't include sweeping bad behavior under the carpet or diverting attention away from genuine problems in an effort to protect the image of whoever your MOG of choice happens to be.

(slightly) "In '73 and '74 even before there were official branches and limbs, the area leader kept the abs for a month and then turned it in to the limb leader. Said limb leader then kept it also for a month before turning it in to hq. If either the area or limb leader needed something that month, the cost came out of the abs. My area leader needed some tires because he traveled a lot to care for his people so that was taken frrom the abs. Somewhere in '74-5 hq called all abs directly in to hq because they said some were abusing the privilege." ........................................................................... When I took the class in 1972, the Way Tree structure was already solidly in place. (branches and limbs). We were instructed to never use the ABS for local needs. We weren't even allowed to use money from the ABS to buy the stamps to send it to HQ. Maybe other people's experiences had to do with geography. I don't really know. That's my personal experience of that period of time. edit: And we were forbidden from doing things like bake sales and car washes to provide for local needs, such as hall rentals. I think this was supposed to be based on the George Mueller idea that God would be the sole source to supply your needs. Or, perhaps, that's the image Wierwille wanted to convey to the public. What that did, in reality, was to create an atmosphere of codependency. (Some people are givers and some people are takers) I never really saw that aspect of it very clearly until I went into fellowlaborers of Ohio. In that program, with 50 people living in close quarters, it was quite apparent. I think one's memories (ie: fuzzy feelings) of the FLO program may be related to where one stood in the codependency queue.

Now, now, there's no need to sugar coat it for these kids. Just come out and say it.

Well, he probably meant SPIRITUALLY young and firm.

They've already imploded. The major components are being reconstructed in Smith County, Mississippi at this very moment.

I guess this would make brother Harry "our uncle in the upholstery business"......except that he wasn't our uncle and his best "cover up" skills didn't involve sofas and chairs.

No, but, aside from the title, it's probably the most well known.

If you search the threads from a couple years ago, you will find documented records of individuals who did, in fact, commit murder (of fellow believers) while on the WOW field. You will also find records of leaders who were arrested and convicted of sex crimes. In some instances, "upper management" knew of the problems and simply moved the offenders to other locations.

edited by poster

Good heavens, Miss Sakamoto----you're beautiful!

----The Beatles

"One book on cults called 'Youth, brainwashing, and the extremist cults' quotes a minister saying that cults are the unpaid bills of the church. This means that cults (spinoffs, offshoots, etc.) wouldn't exist if the church was taking care of people properly." Cults come in all shapes and sizes, not just the church/religious variety. For that reason, I would have to say that the above conclusion is flawed.

Did he really? Or did he he simply propound his personal interpretation of what he thought the scriptures ought to say?

I remember Steed. Michael Fart and a couple of other (then to be) future "leaders" were involved with that one.

Back in the 1970s, if you wanted to throw a branch picnic or BBQ, you weren't allowed to have a bake sale or car wash to defray the cost. Wouldn't want to portray the "ministry" as being needy and all that. My, how things have changed.

...and why, if God had really shown him truths that hadn't been known for two thousand years, did he have to default to the works of psychics, spiritualists, magic-thinking promoters and the like as a vehicle to deliver the message?

NEXT!

Wow! I just levitated a coffee table on the other side of the room by the power of my mind! This stuff is amazing! Heh!

Was that meant to be rhetorical? We all know that, to be considered an active member of "the ministry", you have to give them at least 10-15% of your income. What better reason could there be than that to encourage members to involve themselves in an income increasing venture?

I was kinda thinking it was the other way around. The PFAL version of the "law of believing" is a repackaging of Napoleon Hill.

Never say never.

I have never been associated with these people and don't have a dog in the fight. I certainly don't mean to imply that these people have anything less than good intentions or that they don't do good things. The fact is, though, at least in my opinion, if you promote a system that is heavily vested in Way dogma, such as the "law of believing", you are promoting a flawed system. In retrospect, I find I disagree with much of what Wierwille said. I do agree with him on this one key point, however.... "Sincerity is no guarantee for truth."