waysider

"VP was both an apostle and a teacher. One sent to give light. His main light was ADAN and the holy spirit stuff. JCING he did reluctantly" John, your definition of an apostle is not in accord with what Wierwille taught in PFAL. Wierwille said "an apostle is one who is sent to bring new light to a generation. It may be old light but it is new to that generation". Even by his own definition, Wierwille could not have been an apostle. PFAL was a hijacking of B.G. Leonard's work. Receiving the holy spirit today, at various places, was an almost word for word hijacking of J.E. Stiles. That means it was not new light to his generation. Bullinger's How To Enjoy The Bible was anything but new. "Fear is sand in the machinery of life" is a quote lifted from E. Stanley Jones. The Corps program is a bastardization of Jones' Ashram concept.... And, even though such concepts as "four crucified" are intriguing to explore, much of this sort of thing has been shown, time and time again, to be based on faulty research. And, how can you be so certain that ADAN and JCING are even the work of VPW? It would appear to me that a real sticking point for you is the idea of Christ's Divinity, as well as the idea of soul sleep. Have you ever explored these areas from any framework outside of PFAL? Perhaps if you had, you could, at the very least, partake in an intelligent discussion that isn't based on what V.P. (you know he wasn't really a Dr., don't you?) Wierwille said. Now, you list a number of men and the gift ministry's you say they have/had. What is your basis for this conclusion? Did you get revelation to that effect? Did God say, as outlined in The Advanced Class, that it's alright to share this revelation? Is there scripture that supports your claims? Or, are you simply making this declaration based on your own "5 senses" observations? As others have pointed out, your example of what constitutes a pastor appears to be quite twisted and reveals more about your true attitudes than you may realize.

No, I never heard him say it. Although, it does seem to be in character for him.

"As for vp's good works, if you roll manure in sugar, it doesn't suddenly become a custard bismark." Take a big bite. There's a surprise inside.

Nowhere in The Bible does it say a football player should be beyond reproach. VP did make decisions. When he saw how catastrophic the L.E.A.D. program was, that women were being raped, people were being maimed, people were being killed, he decided to continue it anyway. When he had a chance to mourn with the corps over the death of Gary D., he chose, instead, to point fingers of blame at undeserving people. When he saw that his boozing and carousing was a factor in the death of Sandra Sullivan, he could have decided to show some remorse and repentance and conduct himself in a manner more fitting of the position he held. Instead, he carried on with his unsavory behavior as usual. When he had a chance to counsel Kristen in an appropriate manner, he decided, instead, to take advantage of her vulnerability. I think I better stop there for the sake of saving space.

Much of the success of Wierwille's "ministry" is due to how he dealt with a phenomenon called cognitive dissonance. ---"Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding conflicting ideas simultaneously."--- For instance: The Old Testament depicts God as someone who is capable of wrath and anger. The New Testament, on the other hand, depicts God as someone who is all love and light. These are two conflicting concepts. And, to add to the dissonance, The Bible also says that God never changes. So, how does one reconcile these differences so that they can coexist? Wierwille had the "answer". This answer hinged entirely on The Great Principle (God, being spirit, can only talk to that which He is, spirit.) and the threefold nature of man (body, soul, spirit). According to Wierwille, God had to depict himself as having human qualities, in O.T times, because the people who existed at that time had no spirit. They were only body and soul, and thus could not understand spiritual matters. With the arrival of the "New Birth" and the holy spirit gift, man was now a threefold being and, as such, could understand the more spiritual aspects of The Bible. Of course, Wierwille then used scripture to bolster that opinion and give it credibility. He also used it to generate an attitude of elitism in his devotees. We had "special powers" that enabled us to understand the deeper matters of life that were hidden from the "natural man". The Great Principle and The Threefold Man comprised the bridge that allowed us to cross from a place of rational thinking to a place of rationalization. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

God is love vs. the Wrath of God. Obvious contradiction. The Bible is filled with them. Rather than accept that fact, discuss it and deal with it logically, Mr.Wierwille's brand of Christianity, instead, chooses to live in denial. Nope. No contradictions. Just accept that what Wierwille tells you will solve any discrepancies. Just ask "The Teacher". "En Gard!" That's how a Way indoctrinated person deals with difficult issues. Simply take a defensive stance and lunge at the problem with isolated bits and pieces of scripture that say what you want them to say. Don't ever dare to stop and consider anything thoughtfully. That's what Eve did. Look what happened to her. (Black and white thinking. No middle road. You're either on the Word or you're off. Either you're for us or against us.) Life is seldom, if ever, that simple. That's why critical thinking skills are a vital part of living. Unfortunately, VPW's "ministry" was diametrically opposed to rational thought. There was even a class (Dealing With The Adversary) that was specifically designed to instruct the students in this anemic process of thinking. Did Wierwille have a "ministry"? Not in any way, shape or form. (In my opinion)

And now I have to wonder-----What the heck is "spiritual growth"?

It wasn't all bad........ at least we learned how to "stretch" coffee.

That's got to be one of the funniest things I've ever read here. (and saddest, too)

How can you NOT get that from the Advanced Class? It's right there in black and white on page 10. It's *key number 3 on the list of keys to walking in the spirit. Did God ever talk to Martin Luther? Thank you for proving my point. The whole thing is rife with contradictory messages. *refer to post #121

Yes---a very loud bell. "God won't talk yo you if you out of fellowship." What a guilt trip that can lay on you when something happens-----and, eventually, something WILL happen----'cause that's how life is-----stuff happens.

The L.E.A.D. accident

No, I don't think you hurt anyone by speaking in tongues for them. People have hurt themselves, though, by substituting SIT/Believing for urgently needed medical attention or to garner a false sense of security in dangerous situations. In fact, many people were needlessly maimed or even died for that very reason. (Read the L.E.A.D. accident thread sometime in light of that thought.) Still, the message in the Advance Class is clear. If you don't speak in tongues daily, God won't talk to you. And if you are in any sort of leadership position, you will feel some sense of personal failure if you don't do it as much as you think you should. After all, what if God needs to tell me something to protect "my people" and I haven't been speaking in tongues enough to receive the revelation? And, then, if something bad should happen, the guilt creeps in. "If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding."

Admittedly, the conversation gets a bit abstract at times. But, hey, Vp's "ministry" is an abstract subject. It was a distortion of reality (ie: abstract)

On another thread, Johnny Yam said Wierwille's "ministry" was like a "safe harbor". So, we're exploring the meaning of "safe harbor" and how it applied to Weirdwilly's "ministry".

Apparently you must have missed session 1 of the Advanced Class. Page 10/A.C. Keys To Walking In The Spirit ...... 3. Speaking in tongues daily is prerequisite to revelation. ......

Rape of The Sun © 1970 Burger/Rossoll Onward he traveled as blood stained his hands, leaving them helpless to die in the sands, leaving them crying, unable to run. He'll pay for the rape of the sun.

Cries for Wierwille---not the squirrel

Yeah, but when he opens the door, there'll be nothing in the room but cries.

David Burger is a very talented multi-instrumentalist I knew many years ago. I did studio vocals for him in a band called The Resurrection of Emma Gross. I think it would have been more fitting to have Wierwille sit in on the bone-a-fone. (Or maybe the zipz-a-cord.)

His " safe harbor" was like a secret storeroom where he hoarded the spoils of his misadventures. The Room © 1972 David Burger/Bill Rossoll Reap the harvest once again. Pile your treasures high. Lock them in a barren room, that reaches toward the sky. Lock them in where they'll be safe, from avaricious hands. Taking care to hide the key in distant foreign lands. Journey there in secrecy. Let no one see the chart. Keep it in that dismal tomb you boldly call your heart. In the tomb the chart is safe to while away the day. Danger there does not exist for none can pass that way. You'll return next harvest time to add more to the store. Cries shall fill your empty room. Cries----and nothing more.

It was a safe harbor for mr. wierwille and his band of thugs. Holed up in their rural hideout, they were safe from inquisition. Here at Greasespot, they stand naked on the parade ground for all to see.