waysider

How is that relevant? Ever consider how much Wierwille's fleet of motorcycles was worth? Didn't stop him from demanding more, more, more.

It should have never been "centralized" to begin with. It began to collapse the moment VPW denuded Way West and Way East.

Absolutely! "A hypocrite in all his might, so wrong in that he thinks he's right."

The question has been raised (paraphrasing)----"Was Wierwille mentally ill or simply a con-man?" I see no reason to discount the possibility he was both a con-man AND mentally ill. He lived long enough to see the horrific consequences of his con game and seemed to display no genuine remorse. In fact, the only remorse we see being attributed to him, whether real or contrived, is his remorse for his own self and his inability to maintain his facade unscathed for posterity. He knew it was a con yet he seemed to feel no sympathy for his victims. It's engraved in stone ----"I wish I were the man I knew to be." What was he regretting? That his con hadn't been more successful? That his scheme might have been exposed? What does that statement really even mean? Remorse for himself ----That's the only remorse he felt.

I realize your question is directed at Groucho but I'll throw in my 2cents. I think he was a natural. He may have learned to hone his craft by observing and studying other con-men, but I think he was naturally inclined to follow this course. Whether his natural inclination was a product of "nature or nurture" is a whole other ball of wax. Maybe it was a bit of both. I'm quite convinced, at this point, that his whole "revelation" charade was nothing more than a theatrical gimmick that he developed using the definitions he found in Bullinger's writings. (ie: WOK, WOW, DOS, etc.)

One of the newer "splinters" has declared its purpose to be fulfillment of "The Corps Principles". How can that possibly help anyone? Here's a little something from their site: ******************************* The S.O.W.E.R.S. program is full time 24/7. Generally, 4 hours work/ 4 hours study per day. Various challenging program opportunities and projects. During session, students will be provided room and board. Students will need to provide for their own needs beyond room and board. Program to be administered on an honor basis. Any volunteer may be dismissed at any time and/or program cancelled [sic] at sole discretion of those charged with oversight. To Fearlessly Pursue an Understanding of these Principles: 1. Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness. 2. Receive training in the whole Word so as to be able to teach others. 3. Physical training making your physical body, the vehicle of communication of the Word, as vital as possible. 4. Practice believing to bring material abundance to you and the Ministry. 5. Go forth as leaders and workers in areas of concern, interest and need. *************************** Source: My link Lots of "red flags", IMO

"He was a mean man."-----------Mrs. W.

Actually, they used the money to promote PLAF (The Wonder Class), which was designed to generate more money which was used to promote PLAF (The Wonder Class), which was designed to generate more money to promote PLAF (The Wonder Class), which was----------------------. Anything extra was used to buy motorcycles, classic cars, jets, motor coaches,---------you get the picture, I'm sure.

Well, it couldn't be Paul because he sang "When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comes to me." (Obviously about debuhl spurt visitation.) And it couldn't be George because, even though he sang about , he was into Eastern Religion and obviously a "seed boy". Soooooo, I'll go with Ringo because he he sang about a love affair with a young girl who was only ".

VP used this 3rd person technique frequently. Page 95 What happens when people fail to understand The Word? They succumb to all the doctrines and theories of man Page 95 A woman once wrote to me regarding one of our broadcasts. She had appreciated my preaching because it agreed with what she thought. Suppose------that it had disagreed? Page 96 After the second session a man came to me and said, "I think this is the most logical Biblical teaching I have ever heard, but," he said, "it is upsetting me because I have always held other opinions and I don't want to change my mind. You are confusing me." This gentleman did not finish the class because he already had his mind closed. That was his privilege----." Page 99 Too many ministers like to talk around The word, yada, yada, yada, yada ************************************************ To the rank and file believers, he would never directly say, "I think you're stupid if you don't do it my way." So, he would give you a 3rd person example of someone he declared to be stupid and hoped you would identify with that person. Ok, that's pretty far off topic but I think it shows, in part, how he got us to buy into some of these inaccuracies.

Well, as long as they're "kinder and gentler" everything will be alright.

But if I really say it The radio won't play it Unless I lay it between the lines.

Page 9---"the orange book" Many times people say to me in my classes on Power for Abundant Living, "Dr. Wierwille, you sure get excited about your Biblical research." That is right; why shouldn't I be enthusiastic------- Here we see that Wiewille allowed himself to be recognized as a 'Dr." when in fact his so-called doctorate came from a degree mill. This is not only actual, it's deliberately deceptive. In addition, he allows the reader to believe that the so-called research originated with him, when in fact, he plagiarized undisclosed sources. These are items that are not subject to opinion, they are "actual"

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Did someone say ?

I wish I had been around for that stuff. It would have made leaving soooooooo much easier.

From post #1: Number 10 In PFAL, Wierwille states that in Luke 2, Jesus was taken to the temple for bar-mitzvah at age 12 instead of 13 because he was considered illegitimate. In truth, the passage in Luke 2 has nothing whatsoever to do with bar-mitzvah. The passage states rather clearly that they were celebrating Passover, not Jesus’ bar-mitzvah. In addition, there is no such custom in Judaism (treating illegitimate children differently for the purpose of bar-mitzvah). Wierwille cites “an old piece of literature” as his source for this bizarre claim. ************************************************************** Here are some links dealing with the origins of Bar Mitzvah: Bar Mitzvah The modern method of celebrating one's becoming a Bar Mitzvah did not exist in the time of the Bible, Mishnah or Talmud. Passages in the books of Exodus and Numbers note the age of majority for army service as twenty.[6] The term "Bar Mitzvah" appears first in the Talmud, the codification of the Jewish oral Torah compiled in the early 1st millennium of the common era, to connote "an [agent] who is subject to scriptural commands,"[7] and the age of thirteen is also mentioned in the Mishnah as the time one is obligated to observe the Torah's commandments: "At five years old a person should study the Scriptures, at ten years for the Mishnah, at thirteen for the commandments..."[8][9] The Talmud gives thirteen as the age at which a boy's vows are legally binding, and states that this is a result of his being a "man," as required in Numbers 6:2.[10] The term "Bar Mitzvah", in the sense it is now used, can not be clearly traced earlier than the fourteenth century, the older rabbinical term being "gadol" (adult) or "bar 'onshin" (son of punishment); that is, liable to punishment for his own misdoings. [11] Many sources indicate that the ceremonial observation of a Bar Mitzvah developed in the Middle Ages,[9][12] however, there are extensive earlier references to thirteen as the age of majority with respect to following the commandments of the Torah, as well as Talmudic references to observing this rite of passage with a religious ceremony, including:------- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_and_Bat_Mitzvah Historians also found that ancient initiations usually occurred when a boy was between the ages of twelve and fourteen, as he reached maturity. Similarly, rabbis fixed the age of responsibility for Jewish boys at age thirteen during the Middle Ages. http://www.mnment.com/brochure/bar.mitzvah.history.html _********************************************** PFAL is saturated with blatant, actual errors.

Do tell.

The very latest from Way Prod.

Bump Oops! I Didn't see Jeff had brought it back.

I won't disagree with you on that. Still, I am genuinely interested in knowing if there were classes that focused on these (cough) "subjects". I suppose I could ask a family member who went to WC/E but he doesn't talk much about it anymore.

Self delusion is not freedom.

"Then they don't do anything to get better and start develop a twitch from believing so hard . . . . " ------------Or worse

I really, really hope you're being sarcastic.