waysider

I suppose you could--------if you happened to subscribe to Calvinism.

Then again, maybe it was just a side effect of the contaminated well water.

I went to my first ROA in 1972. It was a refreshing change from some of the debauchery of secular rock festivals I had attended. It was all downhill after that.

I really think I can say with great confidence that I would not have followed any such orders. Maybe I left TWI before it got to this point. I don't know.

VeePeeWee was a common grifter, not an apostle. Trying to assign some sort of spiritual significance to his efforts is an indication that one is still, to some degree, being influenced by the deception. (IMO) Elsie Em, on the other hand, was a grifter's apprentice, not a prophet, who didn't have what it takes to master the confidence trade and got tossed out of the apprenticeship program.

You have a good memory, taxicab, even without the notes.

I'm not sure anyone (at least not me) is saying that human nature is evil. What is being said is that the true nature of the cult was evil. In other words, no one would have joined the cult if they knew they were joining something evil. Even that statement is probably not entirely true but I think is is true in the majority of cases.

Excellent point, TC

"Everything is spiritual"--------VPW

Session seven Listening with a porpoise 1. What are the five steps the serpent used to deceive Eve? ANSWER Step #1 He got Eve to QUESTION the integrity of "The Word". etc., etc. (Be careful---this could happen to you.) 2. Who has power and authority over the world today? ANSWER Satan 3. Where do sickness and death come from? ANSWER Satan yada, yada, yada----

Ironically, this is from a session of the Advanced Class that deals with characteristics of devil spirits. page 17 (1971 syllabus) "They inhabit certain places which they prefer to others. They tend to live in groups." The idea was this: Suppose you owned a tavern that was frequented by people with devil spirits. Even if you completely changed the function of the tavern into something else, such as a coffee shop or flower store, the devil spirits would still hang around the location. Maybe Linder's Freudian B.G. Leonard slip was showing. Hee Hee

Well, as I said before, this thread is really about the element of fear that is woven throughout TWI classes, not about SIT. SIT was just one contributing component. (IMO) But, the "ribbon of fear" is presented as early as session 7, even before the infamous sessions 11 & 12, where SIT was presented.

I don't understand your meaning.

I'm not so sure we completely missed it but the process of resistance took on the stature of an almost unobtainable goal. Consider, for one example, the inordinate importance placed on retemories. En Guard!

I'm afraid I must disagree with this statement. An error in judgment, while making a left turn, may matter a great deal and have very long lasting effects, regardless of how you "take them".

It's not the same thing that happens when you speak in tongues. http://www.religionandspirituality.com/view/post/11622754423000/Scientists_analyze_Pentecostals_brainwaves/ When you speak in tongues, the portion of your brain that governs your "sense of self" is measurably affected. That does not appear to happen in these other circumstances you have cited. We have done other threads about speaking in tongues. If one desires to pursue that angle, it might be best to refer to those threads. My inclusion of it in this discussion is to simply show that it played a role in this whole process of permeating our thinking with fear consciousness. In other words, we were told that without it, our spiritual defenses would be lacking.

Building ships in bottles can serve the function of diverting one's thoughts, also, but none of these three examples actually causes the brain to shut down the part of itself that controls critical thinking in the same way as has been scientifically demonstrated with speaking in tongues. Now consider the effects of feeding the mind irrational thoughts while it's in a somewhat defenseless state.

True, but in TWI, the idea was that it was imperative to make continual efforts to self delude yourself into accepting Way doctrine and rejecting all else ("En Guard!"-----DWA class) and you were to exercise a practice that helps turn off your critical thinking functions. (S.I.T. much-----PFAL classes I,II,III)

Or do you mean what they DECLARE to be The Written Word?

And does it really matter if it doesn't appear on an SNS tape or in a class? If was being repeated throughout the organization, they had an obligation to be aware of what was being promoted and a responsibility to correct it if it was in error.

evil nature. Then again-----

Lots of doctrine that was disseminated through the organization was deliberately distanced from its source, in my opinion. Like money laundering ideas.

By now, most people are familiar with the meaning of "grease spot by midnight". Way doctrine states that God puts a special "hedge of protection" around those who band together as "one true household". Leaving the household places one on the outside of the hedge and thus openly vulnerable to attacks by "the adversary". The common idea that was promoted was that once you were in the household, it would never be safe for you to venture outside. You could become a grease spot in the road by midnight. This concept is fairly straightforward and easily understood. As such, it is also easily debunked. You leave, it doesn't happen---end of story. However, there is another fear motivated concept, that I will call "the ribbon of fear", that is much more complex. It's woven throughout the PFAL series of classes. Simply stated, it's the concept that the devil can (and probably will) possess you unless you force your mind to conform to Way doctrine, otherwise known within the organization as The Word. Bits and pieces of this concept are strewn throughout the various classes. Starting in session seven of PFAL, we learn that Eve's folly was to give careful consideration to what she was hearing. The admonition here is that if one allows their mind to think freely, they could find themself in a perilous predicament just as Eve did. Thus, it is best to not even consider conflicting ideas. In the Intermediate Class, we learn that if our mind is kept preoccupied with speaking in tongues, the spirit inside us will grow stronger and thus repel such attacks. And, we must use endless repetition of Way doctrine to replace genuine thoughts. There are two classes, Dealing With The Adversary and Renewed Mind, that are expressly devoted to promoting this very doctrine. Then, in the AC, we learn that, even if a devil spirit is cast out, it can and will come back unless the person follows this doctrine. In fact, we learn that it will probably come back with addition friends and make the situation even worse. The solution? Never allow your mind to consider thoughts that contradict Way doctrine. Here are just a few examples of "sprinklings" from classes. page 19---AC "A born-again saved believer may become afflicted with evil spirits. The spirits may affect or possess mind and/or body, but not spirit." page 17---AC "They are the cause of mental and physical disease." "They can pass in and out of men and even animals." "Satan may enter divine presence at any time." page 7---DWA HOW WE STAND AGAINST THE DEVIL "You must know HOW God operates. (The PFAL classes have certainly outlined his step by step operation) You must have a spiritual connection line, a system for communicating with God. (The manifestations and their usage provide this.) You must have the proper keys for making yourself subject to God in your walk. (The Renewed Mind is your Key to Power.)" page 6---DWA The Battlefield is in the Mind The way to capture any man in anything is to get him to think like you want him to think. IDEAS CAPTURE MEN NOT WEAPONS. If we win a man's thinking in his mind, if we capture his thoughts, we can indicate and control his actions. It goes on and on and on, woven like a ribbon throughout all the classes. That's the stuff that's so hard to initially untangle from your own thoughts.

I still believe God had a purpose for stretching coffee. Where He stretched it. Why He stretched it How He stretched it ---------------------------------------

INTERVIEWER--- Tell me a bit about yourself. MARTINDALE--- Why, I can lick any man in town! INTERVIEWER---Sir, we frown on that sort of activity in the workplace.