waysider

Since you didn't specify the subject at hand, I'll assume you are asking, "How old were you when you "got in The Word"? I was 21.

I get what you're saying, Dot. When I said I "disagreed", it was a bit rhetorical. I wasn't really disagreeing with you. I was disagreeing with this part of the conclusion: "They were the smart ones to leave." Some of the ones who stayed were smart people also, but their decisions to stay may have been unwise. In other words, the judgment falls on the decision itself, not the person who made it. But, the monster was there regardless. Peace?

I wonder if they'll be adding a link to "Actual Errors in PFAL"? It seems like they would surely have to in order to present a " fair and balanced review".

Jeff Beck and Tal Wilkenfeld

I find myself wondering if The United States Marine Corps has authorized use of the USMC logo to promote reading materials that were created through plagiarism, an illegal activity. LOGO PLAGIARIZED READING MATERIALS

Very interesting, Mr. B. Maybe this explains the difference between VPW and LCM. I believe Wierwille, unlike LCM, knew from the very beginning that he was blowing smoke about this stuff.. That would explain why it didn't seem to present any sort of internal conflict for him.

I find I must disagree, in part, with this conclusion. Their decision to leave may have been wise, but it doesn't make they, themselves, "smart". Consider this: As an experiment, you bring a cow that's been dyed purple, a "monster" of sorts, into a large open room of people. Some may recognize the cow instantly for what it is. Others may admit to seeing the cow, but try to find a rational explanation for it's presence. Another group may see the cow, but insist it's an illusion. Some may never see the cow because it's been obscured from view by other people or objects in the room. Some people will accept the cow for what it is, only after careful consideration. And there are probably many other variations as well. But, if you ask these same people to recount the incident at a later date, their perception of the event may have changed. None of this makes one group smarter or wiser than the next. It simply demonstrates that perceptions can vary from person to person and even from one time frame to the next within the same person. . Through it all, though, one thing remains constant-------the existence of the cow. The "purple cow" was/is always there in TWI. After careful consideration, I like to think I'm finally starting to accept the "purple cow" for what it really was. edit: I'm sure I must have heard or read this example, or a variation, somewhere , sometime. I don't remember where or when though. Any documentation (of the example, not necessarily my conclusion of its meaning) would be welcome.

Life is too short to have sorrow. You may be here today and gone tomorrow.

You are a wise lady, Dottie Matrix.

En Guarde!

I say, I say----Did he look like this?

Here ya go, Paw. From the movie "Standing In The Shadows Of Motown", these are the musicians responsible for more hit songs then my little mind can fathom. And yet, they remained almost unknown until this movie exposed their contributions. More NUMBER #1 hits than The Beach Boys, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones and Elvis------Combined!! and HERE

Fool That I am

Why do some people feel compelled to so doggedly force their conclusions on others? Here's something from Tolstoy that may offer some insight: "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives."

WG A while ago, I posted an interesting take on predestination that G. W!neg@rner used to teach. I can't seem to remember where it is, though. It's the ice cream cone analogy.

Remember the old flip chart in session #12 that depicted "what it is" and "what it is not"? GSC What it is: (Refer to front page.) What it is not: A platform for those who choose to brow-beat and intimidate.

"Deep in the heart of Siberia's birch forests lies one of the largest and most remote religious communes of the planet. More than 5,000 people have left their families and their homes to move here and join the Church of the Last Testament, which has more than 10,000 followers worldwide. The church centers on one man. He is known simply as Vissarion, meaning "he who gives new life," or simply as the teacher, and he claims that he is Jesus Christ." (Be sure to watch the video.)

WD Perhaps you can help me clarify some information. On multiple occasions, you have stated you were never in the Corps, Fellow Laborers or The WOW program. Yet, now, when I have referenced your lack of experiences living in Way style communes, you say, a few posts back, that you have, in fact, spent time living in one of these communal arrangements. Can you elaborate on the type and extent of involvement you experienced while living in said programs?

The villagers in the Abode of Dawn follow an almost entirely vegan diet, largely based on what they can grow themselves. When they move here, they give the church their pensions and whatever possessions they may have. In return they receive basics such as sugar, buckwheat and flour. No money is used within the community but they are given an allowance of 300 rubles, about $12, a month. http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/Story?id=5225539

Well, Dorian, If you were looking for examples of the long term effects of Way indoctrination, you need look no farther than this thread. Some people will go on defending VPW and his secret deviant lifestyle until they take their last breath. It's sad---very sad.

Tell ya what, WD. How's about you tell us all what it was like to live in a Way commune. You have lived in a Way commune, no? See, the point you can't quite seem to grasp is that it's not about geographic location, it about what happened at those geographic locations. Sure, you may have been to this place or that stringing chairs and what-not, but you were a visitor, plain and simple. You have no concept of what it's like to live a communal lifestyle 24 hours a day. If you do, then please supply some supporting information. I've never been to Spain-----but I've been to Oklahoma.

I never said "Christianity changes", although, I believe that what we perceive to be "Christianity" certainly does change with passing time. Likewise, what we perceive to be the defining elements of a marriage may be miles away from the perceptions people held 2,000 years ago. One of the most obvious differences is the practice of arranged marriages. Marrying for love would surely have seemed quite foreign to people thousands of years ago when people entered marriage primarily as a business arrangement. This is why I said I think it is ludicrous to try to forcibly extract parallels that don't exist.

An alternative to canning is "blanch and freeze", which we did in Fellow Laborers. We had 50 people to feed. Here's a link. http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/5000/5333.html

Trying to compare marriage in the 1st century to marriage in the 21st century is ludicrous at best.

Ask her how she feels about plagiarism. Most of VPW's "works" are nothing more than flat out plagiarisms of people such as BG Leonard, JE Stiles, EW Bullinger, etc. Some of his books, when compared word for word, are virtually duplicated from the works of others. There is lots of documentation here on GSC. Show her the article that depicts the actual errors in PFAL. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/editor...ant-living.html Also, show her the threads that deal with the doctrinal errors in PFAL. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/editor...nal-errors.html and the discussion of Wierwilles "Blue Book". My guess, though, is that she will have some lame excuse for why it was okay for Wierwille to use the works of others as though they were his own.