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I just wanted to address something my friend socks said. Sometimes, we aren't as polite and considerate here as we should be. But........considering that we all have one thing in common, that is, we came out of a dysfunctional group where conflict was not dealt with very effectively, I guess we just need to cut each other some slack. Yeah, I've been as rude and insulting as anybody else here. But, when I apologize for my shameful behavior, my fellow gsers have been pretty quick to forgive. I appreciate that so much. Maybe this little piece of real estate on the Net can allow us to practice our conflict resolution skills, and be forgiven when we mess up. Maybe I'm an idealist, I don't know. But so many of us are just trying to find our own way. Ya know? I'm not making excuses for poor behavior. Just offering a reason why. Nobody knows for sure where I have been, or any other poster here, in our efforts to develositize from TWI. It's nice to know that we have company who can let us know when we are out of line. Sorry for getting preachy or rambling. I hate preachy posts.

Yeah, Raf, I agree. Jesus had the inside track, even when nobody else did. He knew what was going on. His concern was for those who didn't. I have no opinion about moving threads to doctrinal. In fact, I like being able to say, "I have no opinion." :huh:

Oldies In hindsight, of course, it's crazy for us to think that God would forsake Jesus. But that's not the point. The Jews in the OT, as well as in Jesus' times could never reconcile the sufferings and the glory of the Messiah. They were uh, a tad bit confused. Jesus was saying one last time to those precious ones he gave his life for, "hey, don't worry, I am THE GUY." No matter what it looked like and how horrible it was, it was God's will for Jesus to suffer and die. Yeah, it looked like he was forsaken, yet we know he wasn't. It's really not that hard to get, for us now. But it was more difficult when it was happening. MHO, as always.

Hey pipes. I think the preoccupation you mentioned is pretty normal. And yes, I promise you, it too will pass. You spent alot of years not talking much about what was really going on in your life. With other way friends, I mean. The "silence" has been deafening, no? Just give yourself permission to spend some time regrouping, reconnecting, recognizing, recollecting, reconciling, whatever it is you need, to get back to loving your life, and being there for your beloved ones. And don't feel guilty. You haven't done anything wrong. Love and hugs.

Hey, Mike. All kidding and joking around aside, it's been nice conversing with you. You have been quite the gentleman and I appreciate that. I think I understand your pov much better. I don't agree with it, but hey, it's a free country. I guess we CAN play nice, huh? Sometimes I have trouble with my inner know-it-all-smarty-pants rearing its ugly head. But you have been quite gracious. Thanks for that.

Mike, I was hopeful that you would consider someone else's perspective, that's all. It would be a first for you here.

Thanks for the kind words, rascal. I almost got hopeful there for an instant. :unsure: But I was, once again, totally deluded. Sigh......oh well. Mike, I think you enjoy the attention here way too much to ever shun us.

Hope your day was as lovely as you, Kit.

oh geeze, rascal. I was referring to Mike's posts, not yours. He's trying to suck you, and me, in again. It's giving me a head/stomach ache.

"Plop, plop, fizz, fizz, oh whata relief it is........" I hum to myself as I down my Alka Selzer.

rascal, There's a fat, juicy worm on that hook. But whatever you do, DON'T BITE!!!!

or The MOG was caught with his pants down; for the last time.

I knew it wouldn't last, Rascal. But hey, I learned something, anyway. B)

Can't. Threw my stuff away a couple decades ago. And honestly, haven't missed it.

aye chuihuahua, Mike. Doing word studies of PFAL, does not give anybody a deeper understanding of God's Word.

Mike Thanks for your reply. Ok, I understand much better. But I still diagree with you. There are tons of stories here at GS that contradict your assertion, Mike. I think that the "law of believing" and it's spinoff doctrines, (positive/negative confession, fear being "bad," and causing evil in one's life, etc.) became a huge albatross choking the life out of "the ministry." And I also think VPW knew it, to a certain extent, and tried to fix it, sorta. :unsure: Hence, all the "pistis" backtracking. Of course, just my opinion. Mike, I'm not going to talk to you privately, by phone, email, or otherwise. But I appreciate the invitation.

dooj, trust me. It ain't you.

How is Allan's point "not sound thinking?"

Mike, when I made my comment about the servant never being greater than his master, I was referring to Paul, or VP, or anyone else who claims to speak for God. The words and works of the servant are NEVER greater than those of whom he serves. Yes, you are correct. I am concerned that you are taking things too far in a wrong direction. The ideas that you promote here seem out of balance, and downright harmful to some. Look, plenty of people find great valuse in PFAL and the writings, teachings, whatever of VPW; plagerism and defective moral character aside. Great! But to say that his words are God-breathed, and then to build a false mythology around that idea, is what many find offensive, and even sinful (as in idolatrous.) And then to make the false assumption that NOBODY, EVER "mastered" PFAL, and you are the first attempting to do that, is to vaunt yourself, and puff yourself up above everybody else who was exposed to PFAL. There is no way you can know if anyone ever "mastered" the teachings or not. Your words and attitude are disturbing and offensive to many people here Mike. I know it's just a message board on the Internet, but still.......I think you put a stumblingblock in the path here. Something that we aren't sposed to do to one another. Many have tried to reason with you, but you dismiss them, because you think they are "unfit." Not exactly hallmark Christian attitude towards fellow believers. Whatever, I'm not trying to lecture you, Mike. Just explain to you what I think. Thanks Rascal. At least you get it. And maybe Mike will too.

Mike, You missed the point of my last post...sigh. Dooj, excellent points.

dove, i think allan makes a fabulous point, which you are either missing,.......or maybe dismissing. Whatever. If you don't want to lift your hands when you pray, don't. If I want to, I will. Can we leave it at that? ;)

Mike, The servant is never greater than the master. I hope and pray in your mastery of PFAL that you come to understand that.

Mike Thanks for answering my questions to you. I don't agree with your assumptions, but I do better understand why you think the way you do. Have you considered the possibility that we don't need a "scholar" to interpret the scriptures for us? That maybe you, me, anybody who has made Jesus Christ Lord and has the Comforter to guide us into all truth can trust Jesus, the only begotten son of God who is the head of the body, of which you and I are a part, to reveal our Father to us, and bring us into fellowship with Him and one another? Whew, that was a long sentence. But I think, Mike, now this is only my opinion, that you have replaced the Lordship of Jesus Christ, with the Lordship of PFAL. And that fact really isolates you from "fellowship" instead of bringing you closer. If you are wrong in your assumptions, couldn't this be the case? Victor Paul Wierwille is dead. But Jesus Christ is alive and working in His Church still to bring those that belong to him, into relationship or "fellowship" not only with our Heavenly Father, but with him and one another. Would you be willing to consider my point of view? Just as I have considered yours?

The inmates took over the asylum.

I had a short talk, not a long one with my brother tonight, about our cult involvement. He said something pretty interesting, i thought. "There are 2 easy ways of justifying our involvement with TWI. ........ Villify VP, or canonize him. Anything in between is too much work for me." He said it, not me. ^_^