insurgent

How about "The Way" Bible? Who owns the rights to that and that name? I know out witnessing people always think we are a certain religion with our own Bible by the same name. Pat, I hope it goes well for you and that you kick their a**. I Don't know how well this thread will go over in court, but I sure hope the best for you.

Then, Oak, it became a problem because we were forbidden to give. We are required to give minimum 15% of our income, but NOT ALLOWED to give anything to any wc. No baby shower gifts, no bridal shower gifts, nothing. Then they changed that rule again, but didn't tell anyone about it. We found out months after some dear friends of ours had had a child and felt like .... because we didn't give anything - we'd gotten yelled at for offering a piece of gum to a wc person there was no way we were going to buy somethign for one of them. It might get us m&a. Sheesh - the merry go round of rules with the twi(t)s never ceases to amaze me. -->

I haven't heard about you, Song, but I have heard people assigned various devil spirits when they were m&a by the twi(t)s. I wonder what mine will be when I finally leave.... I remember lcm teaching on Leviathan but can't remember which class. I'll go through my syllabi when I can...I think I still owe someone information from one of them...

Owning a home does NOT preclude you from being asked to host various and sundry events in your home. You are still asked if you would be "blessed to" have fellowship, host a class, have meetings, have a witnessing coffee house, etc. at your home. I would think that having one spouse in and one spouse out might have an effect on the frequency of that happening, but if both are "in" then it is a common occurence.

Can you ask them if lcm is getting any monetary or intangible pay from them? Are they supporting him directly or indirectly in any way? Has donna's compensation increased since the lawsuits? How many lawsuits have they settled in the past 10 years? How many have they had filed against them? How many have they filed? How many have they "won", settled and lost? How many people/corporations have they sued over copyright infringement?

So since he was just a little dishonest he's okay in your book, oldies?

Well, you see, Pat, it's like this....The Bible says not to be unequally yoked and to have someone who is way craps and someone who is not in a marriage creates an imbalance of power and spiritualism so that has to be fixed. (I know darn well that the verse says not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers, but the twi(ts) are very adept at privately interpreting verses where they need to make a point). Fixing a problem like this generally means forcing the couple to pay more money for going back through the craps program to become equal or divorce. It's a godly decision and one that has to be made because, well, you just can't have imbalance in a relationship. The same is true for couples where one wants out and the other doesn't. The one who stays with the twi(ts) are the more spiritual of the couple and since the other person wants to leave it means that they are going on the internet and subjecting themselves to devil spirit influence. It's possible to help the more spiritual partner to recognize the devil spirit influence and possible possession so that they will know when it's time to leave the partner. Weakness brings down strength and evil communications corrupt good morals. That poor spiritual wayfer will be vexed in the spirit like Lot if he/she doesn't leave the partner who has turned his/her back on God by leaving the only true household and functioning body of Christ. As for the defaming...People have to know what we're dealing with. If someone is possessed and leaves twi or "eliminates themselves from the competition" then everyone needs to know about the evil practices of these people so that they can recognize them in others and thereby help keep the household clean. It's also healing for them to learn about the wrong-doings of these people so that they can learn that they are so much more spiritual and deserving of God's protection than these terrible evil-doers. It's all about keeping the household informed. Wayfers are told everything from soup to nuts, you know? This is just making sure they know what they need to know to keep themselves clean and in a position to be blessed.

Oldies, there's always a "yes, but...." to the kind of question that you're asking. Here's a brief synopsis on the definitions according to the twi(ts) There's the family of God which includes everyone who is born again - all these people are in the body of Christ and all will go to heaven whether they deserve it or not. There's the Household of Godthese are the people who are faithful and who rightly divide the Word. These are the people go go above the tithe and always obey leadership. Everyone who is in the family does not reside in the house with the Father. Only the truly faithful have that priviledge. There is also a portion of the body of Christ which actually practices the rightly divided Word. This portion of the body is called the Functioning Body of Christ. And only those who are in the Household of God are qualified to be of the Functioning Body of Christ. The only ones who qualify for Household/Functioning status are those in twi. So, see, you may be born again and I can't deny that you're going to heaven, but by golly I can talk all day about how you're not of the functioning body of Christ and are no better to God than some empty floating by because being born again is the only thing you have going for you. Now.....if you wanted to start coming to fellowship on a regular basis, take all our classes and give your money to the outreach of the Word so that we can do good while we live on a need only basis.....then we could talk about possibly allowing you the part of, say, the hangnail in the functioning body of Christ. Family and Body = everyone Household and Functioning Body = twi(ts) only. In fact, they go so far as to say when Paul addresses his books "to the faithful in Christ" that he is talking to them, twi(ts), they are the only ones they know who are faithful to the rightly divided word. Others may be sincere, but they are sincerely wrong and sincerity is no guarantee for truth. What say ye? Interested in the open hangnail position? edited because I can't get my bold and italic tags right.

There's an article in the latest rag about "doing good". I typed up a synopsis of it, but used some trigger words and it's in the "awaiting approval" bucket. Not complaining at all about the wait, just impatient. ) I actually submitted it twice because I didn't actually read the message the first time. But, in light of recent discussions here I thought it was interesting because the article was written by J*s*ph*n* W*ll*c* - wc minister and graduate of the class of 1984 serves with her husband as the Rocky Mountain RCs. Interestingly the article has absolutely nothing to say about "doing good". The only references are about speaking the word, praying for others and giving of everything beyond our genuine need - all WITHIN THE TWI HOUSEHOLD - THE ONLY HOUSEHOLD OF GOD. They just don't get it. --> When the article is approved and posted you will see that nothing has changed in twi and the twi(ts) still think, speak and teach the exact same things they've always taught - elitism and that people only need to hear the rightly divided word - not get money, physical, material help in any way.

The latest way rag just came out and guess who has an article in it and just guess what that article is on.... J*s*ph*n* W*ll*c* - wc minister and graduate of the class of 1984 serves with her husband as the Rocky Mountain RCs. She wrote an article about having open doors to do good. What follows is my own rendition of the pedestrian article. Nothing in the following post is quoted verbatim in large chunks – maybe a word here or there, but following the example of vee pee pee I will not plagiarize anything. This is the first time ever I have heard any official teaching or mention of “doing good to all” in all my years in twi. She starts by talking about how as a young child she had to learn how to bless others. She frowned more than she smiled and some people thought she was grumpy and unhappy. Her mom was sociable and outgoing and she helped her by telling her over and over again to smile. She told her to look in the mirror every day and practice smiling. She obeyed her mom and over the years, as a result, her cheerful countenance and positive attitude have helped her to serve others and opened doors for her to help friends through difficult times in their lives. She says that God exhorts us regarding dealings with others, especially those in the household of believers. (of course, we know that the only household of believers, according to the twi(ts) is those who send their money to new knoxville) Gal 6:10 – As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith. We are to do good, she says, good which is spiritually advantageous or beneficial to others around us Where do you get anything spiritual out of “good” in that verse???) She then quotes the Amplified Bible which doesn’t talk about good being only spiritual good. She says this is a rich and powerful truth. We should be mindful to be a blessing – to do that which is of spiritual advantage to others. And as we do, she says, many blessings will abound in our lives and to those around us. Blessing each other with God’s Word and helping each other go to the Word and find the answers to meet needs are two ways of being especially good to the household, according to ms. w*ll*c*. In her article, she says that she will look at several practical ways and examples of benefiting the household of believers and sharing God’s goodness with all that we might meet. The basics to be looked at will help us to develop mutual respect for one another. Additionally, we’ll see how God adds humble people to our fellowships as we apply the Word and use our God-given abilities to serve one another. Biblical example number 1 starts by saying that Jesus Christ (not just Jesus – in case you get confused as to which Jesus she’s talking about) is the greatest example of someone who made up his mind to benefit and serve others. A brilliant record that shows this is the account in Luke 19 about Zaccaeus, who in verse 2 was “chief among publicans”. Quotes Luke 19_4-9 In the book order my steps in thy word, vee pee pee explained that the roman system of tax collecting during Jesus’ lifetime (woah, I had to re-read this…..she didn’t say Jesus Christ. Must have been an oversight on the part of the editors) was known to be an abusive system, compounded by the dishonest of the publicans. Zacchaeus was not just a common tax collector, but the chief and Jesus Christ (I knew it had to be an oversight – we’re back to making sure every Jesus has a Christ) didn’t allow the commonly held opinion of tax collectors to change hi thinking about him. Zacchaeus was an honest man, she says, and Jesus Christ saw that he was meek and desired to know the truth. Jesus Christ was kind and loving enough to listen to Z-baby’s situation, no matter his status in society, to the point that Z-baby received salvation. OKAY, how is this an example of doing good? Jesus didn’t judge the man but I don’t see what her point is with this example. Another great example of doing good to all is in the record of the apostle Paul and his encounter with Lydia and her household: Quotes Acts 16:9-10. Paul and the men with him did not hesitate to obey God and go to Macedonia. Quotes vs 11-13 Paul and the others did not go by culture or appearances because they walked by the spirit of God. In the Eastern culture it was unusual for a group of women to get together to fellowship and pray, but this is where God sent these men first. Vs. 14-15 This record shows truly Paul’s meekness to obey what God wanted him to do. (Is this article about obeying or about doing good??) As a result he brought the Word to Lydia, who was ready and humble to believe and receive God’s wonderful Word. Paul and his companions helped Lydia and her entire household get born again. Lydia responded with hospitality by asking them to stay with her. Imagine the mutual respect that develped between Paul and his companions and Lydia and her household by spending so much quality time together. The example of loving kindness extended by Paul and the others as well as the loving response by Lydia and her household, brought long-term results. Later in the book of Acts we learn that the Word of God grew mightily in the lives of disciples like Lydia and they had a great impact in their communities. (Oh, I see – it’s about obeying and outreach! There’s no other motive to do good than to obey your leadership and bring more money to twi) Acts 19:20 The following verses chosen by ms w*ll*ce set forth basic categories that the 1st century believers continued steadfastly in and the results that they enjoyed as a result. Continuing in these categories will also help us to do good and to develop mutual respect for one another in the household. Our personal lives, says she, will be enhanced, as will the lives of fellow disciples and those others around us. Acts 2:42-46 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine….all things in common….eat their meat….singleness of heart. (….’s are mine – the whole section is quoted) A vital key to doing tood to others is continuing steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine, which involves studying and living the Word. THis helps us to be refreshed and sharp on the word and live graciously with others in the household. As Eph 4:32 says, we deal kindly with each other in the household. (THIS IS A BIG CHANGE…Actually, it’s the same we just smile while we tear each other down now with our newly acquired southern accents.) Is it me or is this article totally skipping the “doing good to all men” part of the verse that the title of the article claims to be about? Fellowshipping daily with one another gives us the opportunity to bless one another with the swettness of the Word and to strengthen ourselves as we continue to stand for God. (What does this have to do with “doing good”?) Another aspect of fellowship is breaking of bread together…..As we eat together in our families and our household fellowships or other ministry gatherings we can certainly bond together, learn, fully share and build our believing. What a great opportunitie to bless one another! (Gag me!!) Another action we can take to do good and bring blessings and benefits to others is to pray….speaking in tongues, perfect prayer, is one form of prayer…… Eph 6:18 quoted We can also pray with our understanding and this form of prayer when backed up with the knowledge and accuracy of the word, brings believing results. (so if I pray, but I don’t have any knowledge of the word, but I pour my igernant heart out to God anyway, does this mean I’m not going to get any results????? James 5:16 ….effectual fervent prayer…. Praying and believing to see needs met is a tremendous resource that is available in our household fellowships around the world. We can see how these two forms of prayer are so important to continuing steadfastly in the Word and brining the goodness of God into concretion in our lives and the lives of others. One result of continuing steadfastly, says she, is in plurality giving of that which is beyond one’s need (You KNEW it was coming, didn’t you??? EVERY ARTICLE must have somehting about outreach and something about giving – it’s a law.) Acts 2:45 shows us how the believers gave of their possessions and goods for the benefit of the outreach of the word she says….(I thought it said “as every man had need” which has nothing to do with the outreach of God’s word, but meeting the needs of people physically.) 2 Cor 9:6 But this I say…soweth sparingly….reap bountifully…. My mother taught me to brighten others days by just giving a little smile, she says. When we give of our abundance, our talents and our abilities in the household we not only receive back in abundance, we help unify the disciples and build hearts of believing. In Col. 2 it is expressed by Paul of his care and concern for the household to be united in love. Col 2:2&3 Now we will see other specific ways we can do good because in Gal 6:10 we see that we give our best to the household – our love, time and attention – the best of these things go to the household. Gal 6:2 – bear ye one another’s burdens…. We love one another by using our strengths to help others whenever we can. Its in viwing ourselves and others in light of the word and in living to serve that we help others grow and mature in their walk. We encourage disciples in their development. Because each and every person in the household is unique, at times being especially good to one another may seem like a challenge but the word tells us to not be weary in helping. Gal 6:9 The reward for loving others in this manner is enourmous. God encourages us to keep giving and helping and serving others because when we do so we reap rewards for now and throughout all eternity. Learning the word gave me the knowledge to truly help others in life’s difficulties. As we serve others the greatness of God’s Word, one of the benefits to us is a magnificent household to fellowship with now and eternally, she says. (Let’s not DO anything, because quoting scriptures is enough. And, look around you because, well, these are the only people who are going to be in heaven with you – this is GOD’S HOUSEHOLD.) Eph 4:32 The word “kind” according to Young means useful or beneficial. The Amplified version says to be useful and helpful and kind…. In our conversations with others we can be kind by speaking God’s word that applies to their particular situation. (are you sick yet???? I’m still waiting for the DO GOOD part and the TO ALL MEN part of this article) Calling Fellow disciples during the day is a way to do good. (Yes, that’s it calling people at work while they are on someone else’s time to quote more scriptures to them – that’s DOING GOOD!!) Maybe we can’t visit face to face but we can dial the phone and visit. Make sure they are all right, asking if they need anything and sharing what you read in the word that day are all good topics. (I’ve been reading this cr*p too long ! If they need something you can then quote them the verses on believing to get what it is you need in answer to your prayer.) This is a wonderful way to help and serve one another. The phone is very helpful to mothers who are at home with young children. Keeping our homes decent and in order is another way to do good to others. (WHAT THE????) When she was growing up she learned how important it is to have a home decent and in order so that it is a haven for others. 1 Cor 14:40 In our household fellowships, the environment of our homes is ameans of helping the believers receive the word most readily. Having our homes in order blesses both those who visit and those that live there. Rom 12:13 Distributing to the necessity of the stains………. This shows that every single believer is to be “given to hospitatlity” and the book of Titus describes a leader as a lover of hospitality. Tit 1:8 A lover of hospitality is one who loves to be hospitable (gee, thanks for that clear explanation, ms w*ll*c*) How do we extend hospitality to others? The first thing we do is love each other with the love of God….it’s a joy to visit with a disciple in their home and to be able to fellowship and speak the word with each other. Often a discple has the oppportunity to house other disciples attending a region or state meeting or one of our ministry classes out of the local area. This type of fellowship builds the mutual respect and love in the household. We have seen many benefits of doing good to all. (we have? I’ve only seen the “IN THE HOUSEHOLD” context of doing speaking twi(t) propaganda in this article. Did I miss something???) Enjoying fellowship within the household and seeing God work in us and others makes life sweeter and more meaningufl. Also, humble people like Lydia will believe and be added to the household as we liave the word and reach out with the rightly divided accuracy of it. Just learning to smile and maintaining a positive attitude helped open doors for her to assist her friends and each of us can continue to do good to all, seeing door of service open for the household believers to bless others with the truth we know.

llp, it's been proven that you live in a la la land of twi that not one person can verify or validate. In this la la land where your fellowship is things are said and leadership behaves differently than it does anywhere else in twi. I have mentioned many times in many places that I can not and will not reveal anymore about myself and my location or leadership than absollutely necessary. The twi(ts) have tried to break into my e-mail and log on and want very much to know who I am and I will not provide that information yet. These comments I reported have come from leadership, wc and regular kool aide drinkers who parrot what they hear from leadership. twi is not and never will give credit to non-twi people or organizations. They even spend a great deal of time teaching their wc wannabees how to "research" their own collaterals and twi published material instead of "re-inventing the wheel" and having to go to oustide, unreliable sources for information and research. twi has not changed and these statements are consistent with the arrogant attitude expressed by so many die-hard wayfers.

Some time after 1994 is when we were told that we had to pray to "God Almighty" or "Heavenly Father" only because these are the only 2 ways prayers are recorded in the Bible. (Good Lord! We were becoming JW and didn't even realize it. Next thing I would expect to hear is: Birthdays aren't celebrated in the Bible either, so we have to quit celebrating those) We couldn't say "Jesus" without using "Christ" right behind it because there are devil spirits that answer to "Jesus". (BUT Jesus is referred to in the Bible as just plain Jesus. -->) We couldn't say "Catholic" it's "Roman Catholic".

Steve! this is typical way-brain illogical thinking. Didn't vee pee pee teach that you can prove anything using the Bible and then proceed to do that very same thing in order to justify anything he wanted? Here's the process as I see it: Let's see - I want to set myself up as some great one, a prophet....no, not just a prophet - an apostle.....no, not just an apostle.....a man of God....yeah, that's it a MAN OF GOD so spiritual that no one can touch me. I also want to make everyone declare their loyalty to ME - none of this Bible quoting, God crap - I want them to be loyal to ME. Hmmmmmm, who did something similar so that I can use that as an example? Moses did say..... Yeah, that's a good one - and if I use Moses as an example they will start thinking of me as the Moses for this day at time.....then I can make them jump through hoops because Israel did some weird things for Moses because he told them God said to do those things..... That'll work. I'll use that example when I force them to bow down to me.

Welcome, PassTheTrash! Let me buy you a cuppa java. You're right that as long as they were able to keep things quiet and hidden there was not going to be any action taken. Mind you (you rhetorical) that many, many people in twi - especially the wc - still consider lcm the mogfart. They still think that what he taught was right on correct and they still think that gawd was talking to him and working in him mightily. They still think that he was and would be a great president and leader of gawd's people if he hadn't had this one major weakness. They still talk about him with glassy eyes and compare him to Solomon and David and Saul. Sickening, I know, but it's why so many people will never leave twi and will drink the kool-aid when it comes around.

This was posted on another thread and I don't want to derail that thread: oldiesman says: oldies, then why didn't lcm address their concerns rather than draw the line in the sand? Is his tactic justifiable and appropriate for a mogfart? How is it that you believe "reports" about people sending abs to geer but you don't believe half of what you read here? -->

The reason was also given that marriages among wc and non-wc were "unequally yoked" spiritually. Thereby elevating the caste system within twi. They could, if they chose, PAY to go back through the wc training program together thereby elevating the bank account of twi even more. Somewhere between 1995-1997 was when it became verbotten to use words like "luck", "create"," bet", "fortunate", "Christmas", "Easter" and others. After listening to lcm rant about the pagan origins of the months of the year I feared we were going to start our own vocabulary and be forbidden to speak of February and Wednesday in front of wayfers. People who didn't want to attend every meeting were considered of lower status in twi because they weren't putting "spiritual goals first". People who were sick were "off the word" somewhere. If it was chronic or a serious matter people were scared to mention it to anyone in twi and people were afraid to talk to them or show them love and kindness because they knew that they were weak people to have something bad happen to them.

I remember being taught how to properly vacuum so that the tracks were proper and godly. The proper way to sweep. The proper order for cleaning - especially dust and vacuum. The proper way to floss my teeth and report that I did it. The proper way to hang my clothes. I wonder if there is a dust bunny support group in my area....

I will post more about this soon.

Well, I guess llp shows the twi(t) opinion of Mel's movie better than I could ever explain. They don't deny that it is a good movie that has reached lots of people (how could they?), they just make sure it's a backwards compliment and make sure that they point out the inaccuracies and the things that llp has so clearly demonstrated. And CherishedChild - AMEN! You said exactly what I was thinking.

om has just been placed on my "do not read or respond" list of posters. -->

I once heard a wc grad talking about being sick during training and being required every day to submit an update on her condition by a certain time on a 3x5 card until she was told it was no longer necessary. She was really sick - really, really sick - and couldn't find a 3x5 card so she turned her update in on a 4x6 card. She was dragged in front of the whole group at lunchtime for an a$$ chewing for being disobedient and stupid. She was so sick she didn't care in the least, but she never did forget it. So maybe her 3x5 cards went straight into her file they were keeping on her.

I heard last year that they were still in and Lisa is the secretary for bob moneyhands who is the lc and rc for florida and alabama.

Yep, I have been on missions to check people's homes. We call and ask if we can come over in the next 15 minutes. We go and say we were just wanting to check on them and see how they were doing. We then make notes with the hfc on how dirty the house was, how unhappy the wife was that we dropped in on them with no warning, how unruly the kids were. Then we put these people on probation because they can't keep their house in order. Yeppers, been there - done that. Hung my head in shame and vowed to never do anything like that again.

MJ, are you still in? I think your post is tongue in cheek, but in case it's not or in case your friends are lurking and reading: The twi(ts) DO NOT readily admit to all the wrongs in twi. They DO NOT admit that vpw was a sex pervert and plagerist. They DO NOT admit that lcm was NOT a MOG. They DO NOT admit that they treated people wrong and ruined lives. They DO NOT admit that they taught and continue to teach things that are WRONG. I don't know what organization you're involved with but it ain't twi. Sure, they will gloss over some things and minimize some things, but they quickly turn the focus from the past to NOW we are loving....NOW we don't make you turn in travel itineraries....NOW we don't micromanage your lives....BUT they do - it's just done with the foxes underhanded, sly way. They are still breaking up families and they have not publicly apologized to people for the evil they have had to endure. They still teach lcm's teachings and classes. They still maintain that he was the man of God, they just excuse his actions along in the same class with David or Saul or Solomon did. Sure, there are some very nice, very naive or very blind people still in twi, but the leadership knows how corrupt it is and they aren't doing one da** thing about it. They still monitor this site and they still harass people trying to find out who is reading these things on here. They still question the motives of people asking questions and they still kick people out. You can call it what you want, but it's a cult and a very evil one that destroys peoples' lives.

oldiesman, I think I have established myself as a pretty credible poster here and I can not nor will I divulge my sources of twi information. They have already tried to hack into GSpot as me and try very hard to find out who I am and where I am. I'm sure that you could talk to anyone in twi and get the same information I have posted. It's the general consensus among twi leader.... and consistent with twi's take on JC. As for your comments to WW about challenging and questioning things taught in twi - you have obviously not learned anything about lcm and after twi rules from all your time here at GSpot. It is not okay to challenge, question or otherwise show any type of disagreement with something said by twi leader..... It is not okay to even discuss things that might be construed as controversial or contradictory to something taught or expressed by twi. and then you would no longer be "in".