Listener

Thanks, Son. Yeah, it took me a while to get the feel of things around here. (still learning, too) Overall, everyone chimes in whenever they feel it appropriate, and gives their (hopefully) respectful opinions on whatever the subject happens to be. Every topic is fair game. And frankly, that's the beauty of GS...as a community, we discuss things that matter to us and get to hear all kinds of viewpoints, and in the ensueing words some might find what they have been seeking...healing, affirmation, love, comraderie, friendship, direction, or even gentle confrontation...or whatever it may be. We all need something in our lives, and GS is one means of finding it. If nothing else, we learn to be respectful and tolerant of the opinions of others, and respect the fact that each person will follow the path he/she chooses. I have learned many things in my short time here that I would never have exposed myself to otherwise...especially in my TWI days. Things that make me think hard about my own beliefs...or what I thought were my own beliefs. ha, ha! Diggin' the crap out of the corners of one's mind is healthy, in my opinion. Most folks here are anonymous, some aren't, and some know each other personally, but the one thing we all have in common is that we enjoy meeting here at GS and sharing our thoughts and ideas. That's the greatness of GS, in my opinion. Of course, most of us came here because of TWI and it's effects on us. But once here, I think the enjoyment of each others company makes sticking around very pleasant. This is one great bunch of people! And by the way, welcome Son of the Master. I hope you enjoy it here. The coffee is strong and the danish is delicious.

Who's judging your prayer life? I simply disagreed with what you wrote because, to me, it sounded a little too somber. My prayer life involves a more celebratory and joy-filled approach...but, no less serious. If I offended you with what I said, I appologize...no offense was intended at all...just my opinion. Apparently your prayer life is wonderful and very effective...and I truly thank God for that. Each of us is a unique individual in His eyes, so our walks will also be unique...I'll bear that in mind, more so, in the future. I guess your description just hit me the wrong way. As far as knowing you? I was at HQ from 73 thru 86, so who knows?...does it matter? You apparently have much greater wisdom and understanding than I in these matters. Thank you. Dot M. - Thank you for your post. I appreciate it. I'm sure Son is a fine person. We just seem to have bumped heads here. I do believe we're on the same team, though.

Yes, thank God for His grace and mercy in our lives for we all have...uuhhhh....been seated in the heavenlies, set free from bondage, made sons of God Almighty, joint heirs with Jesus Christ....and the list goes on and on!!! THAT's worth singin' and dancin' about!! Dogone it! Fire up them fiddles and banjers and lets have a good old fashioned HOE DOWN for the Lord!! Kick up our heals and thank the Lord!!! YEEHAAAWW!!!

I disagree, Son. The prayer life you describes sounds to much like a religious activity to me...to cut and dried. It may be wonderful to you, and that's fine if you prefer such a relationship, but for me and my house, we will rejoice in the Lord and have a he!! of a lot of fun with Him in the process. He and I share life, not religion. I view "freedom in Christ" as just that....freedom!

Dear Instructor Bone, First of all, thank you for you amazing presentation of God's Word and the practical application of it in my life. Here are my answers to these most insightful questions..... 1. What are your thoughts on this topic? I completely understood the material covered. Therefore I have no thoughts of my own anymore. Praise TWI. My brain is quite non-functional at present. Thank you. 2. Do you think you suppressed analytical thinking skills during your initial involvement with TWI? After studying and methodically applying the keys learned in your presentation I can say, without reservation, that I have successfully eliminated any and all analytical thinking that may have poisoned my mind. Furthermore, I shall strive to continue protecting my mind from such dangerous thought processes. Mind off! Mind off! Mind off! Mind off! 3. What methods do you currently use to help you to think clearly? Due to your masterful presentation of these keys, I have decided to memorize the class material completely, and thoroughly review it every day so that my mind can become purer and purer as I grow in spiritual matters. I practice Absorbing Without Question every minute of the day. What a GLORIOUS LIFE I HAVE FOUND!!! PFRT Rules!!!! Praise PFRT!!! Can I have refreshments with my classmates now?? Please??? :huh: :wacko: :blink: :( ...before they eat it all??? :biglaugh:

Naw....actually they were afraid some young upstart preacher would steal vp's work and call it his own. So, with their massive storehouse of accumulated spiritual wisdom, they decided the most effective way to protect it would be to eliminate it altogether. <_< let's see...hmmmm....what was that about "honor among thieves"?

Seems to me that most of the talk shows employ opinionated people who cause controversey because it draws an audience. Regardless of your belief system, or opinions, you can almost always find a loudmouth on TV who yaks on and on in favor of your views....and they call it balanced programming. Rosie is one of those characters that is good at only one thing...comedy (in this case)....and therefore, because of her celebrity, can draw an audience. Add to that her frequent, fierce, opiniated statements, and BINGO....she's prime talk show material! <_< Talk about lowering the standards to meet the challenge! Maybe she'll disappear back into the comedy club circuit?

Well, Highway, I seem to remember something about "a house divided against itself". Ge*r and loy. What a couple of bozos! Seems WP, under loys astute iron hand, was been driven into the ground and has never recovered. To bad TWI never noticed Psalms was poetry...God's contribution to the arts. :) Personally, I think Father likes music!...He sure refers to it often enough in the bible.

I agree with RainbowsGirl. I think BG came because he was invited, and also out of respect for the occasion of a funeral...even if he didn't agree with vp's use of his work. I doubt if vp would have done the same for BG...but that's just my opinion.

Hah! Old timers, indeed! Why, I remember walking 3 miles to twig barefoot in 2 feet of.....oh, sorry....I digress. (already!) :huh: Very interesting.....no materials by vp, eh? So, now it's all lcm's crap? What DO they sell now??? Anything related to the bible?? <_< wolfy....kinda cute, wouldn't you say?....kinda cudly, but with teeth.

OK, I'll jump in with my views on prayer. To me, it's communication with God, my Father, and Jesus, my brother. It's family time. I talk to them (pray) like I'm talking to any other member of my family. The main difference from TWI's version of praying is that I don't pray for anything specific for myself, except for my needs to be met as my Father sees best, but that's it...no specifics. All I do is keep a lookout for His solutions. Any prayer regarding me is always done in light of someone elses need. What I DO pray specifically for is other people. I pray according to my perspective at the time...not from some formula, or by using religious sounding words. Father knows my heart, so expressing my heartfelt desire is the most honest route to take. I don't try to hide my emotions, either. If I'm angry, He hears about it in all it's fury...even if I'm mad at Him! If I'm telling Him how much I love Him, He gets all the mushy details. You see, if I really love my Father, shouldn't I share everything about me with Him? I know, I know, He already knows all that stuff, right? Well, I know my kids love me, but it sure makes me smile big when they say it out loud...it melts my heart! I like to think I put a big smile on Father's face when I do the same...it warms His heart. And you can bet brother Jesus is getting a chuckle out of it, too! In TWI, prayer was almost a social statement of one's spiritually...who could say the heaviest prayer that would impress everyone else? Or who could show how "tapped in" they were by praying for what they "saw" as a "pressing need" in the ministry or world? How 'bout when we were called on and TOLD to pray for something specfic! All BS, no heart! (Don't tell me God told you to tell me to pray for that!! YOU pray for it!!) We are each individuals and as such, have differing abilities within the Body of Christ. We all see things slightly differently, and Father works within us in the way that's best for us and the rest of the Body....we're not clones like TWI tried to create. So, I say, pray, in your own words, for whatever YOU think needs to be prayed for, and let the chips fall where they will. Pray for the poor bum on the street, or for the lightbulbs to last for years, or for a cure for cancer....all that matters is that you pray from THE HEART for that which YOU see as needful of prayer. You may be the only one that sees that need...and who's to say that it's not the most important thing to pray for at that moment? I hope this made sense. I've never tried to put something like this into words...it's rather difficult for me...and sort of a personal thing. If you're looking for biblical documentation, I don't have it...I'm not a researcher, just a reader. I leave it up to Father to "highlight" what I need to learn. And I've learned a lot here on GS.

vp was the one who championed Wa* Pro*uctio*s from the very beginning. The other trustees and many in the cabinet thought it was a waste of money and time, and were satisfied with the old fashioned piano and organ stuff. Of course, once it became clear that using more contemporary music attracted people to take the class, they changed their tune and acted like they were supporters all along. That was the whole, sole purpose for WP...to make the ministry money. It was always an uphill battle being a performer/writer/dancer because everything had to be "approved" before it could be used. The restrictions were stifling. Creativity was never important, but cleverness was. You know, like how many different ways can TWI doctrine be expressed in lyrics. vp fancied himself to be quite the authority on music and lyrics, and would frequently "correct" lyrics in such a way that the song became bland and lifeless...just like his life. And focus on any one individual was avoided at all costs. Singers that were exceptionally talented and could attracted much attention to the ministry, were kept away from becoming too popular. Personally, I think vp was afraid of being upstaged, and was afraid of loosing control...but he sure did love taking credit for the whole shebang! You would not believe the torturous face meltings WP endured at his hands behind the scenes, for the most ridiculous reasons...often because the performance was "off the Word". But he NEVER could explain what that meant! Joyful Noise was not that joyful. <_<

I can atest to the fact that it was spoken of vp during his reign. No clue on the author, or who, exactly, started circulating it. Can't even remember the circumstances when I first heard it...could have been an offhand comment that took on a life of it's own. But, it was definitely used by people concerning vp and his "incredible spirituality"...I guess you just never knew if something he said was actually revelation, 'cause he was soooo "tapped in" all the time. <_< what BS!!

Hey, no problem, Through. When you're ready, we're here to listen. Sometimes the healing comes in the telling. What's that old cliche? Confession is good for the soul. Anyway, many of us have been there, as you are now. Just take your time...only you will know when you're ready.

That's very cool, Lone Wolf. It's great to hear about the GS community helping people.

I don't know, but maybe they do LEAD on rotation to Gunnison. Does WC still rotate? Do they even still have Gunnison?

Boy, I'll have to chew on that for a bit. Reading it brought a flood of thoughts...just need time to sort through them.

Rocky, I see your point. But, I can only go by what a poster says. While I often re-read such a post several times attempting to clearly understand it, in this case I saw no alternative meaning...I did try to be respectful, though, in case the posters meaning was other than what I thought it was. My apologies, krysilis, if I misunderstood you.

I'm afraid you are mistaken. He refers to her age, 12 years old, in the course of the messaage. He was definitely talking to his daughter. What a pathetic, sick individual he is.

I'm looking forward to this story!! And, you bet your bippy (oops, i''m dating myself) I believe in miracles. Please continue, Through, I'll be waiting. And I don't doubt your story for a minute. My kids did things like that, too. Kids that take God at his word are truly amazing! We used get real irritated with light bulbs burning out. At about the same age, my daughter decided to start praying for the bulbs to keep working. From the time she started praying, we didn't have a bulb burn out for almost 3 years!! Then one of her friends told her that was silly...she quit praying for them...they all burned out within 2 weeks. True story!!

I think that was one of the most devilishly ingrained beliefs TWI shoved down our throats. It was as foundational a TWI doctrine as one could find. TWI turned our expectations away from God, and focused them on men and our own works. I had to DO something to GET something. God wasn't going to give me crap unless I performed the rituals in the correct manner!! And if I didn't get what I decided I needed, it was my own fault...I did something wrong...I didn't believe enough...and the leadership, of course, were quick to point that out to me!! How many times did God offer me what I needed, and I blew it off as a wrong result because I wasn't "believing" for THAT!! Talk about frustrating the grace of God!!! Well, my bible says he will supply ALL my needs according to His riches in glory. If that's true, I don't need to DO anything to recieve anything...except have faith that HE will provide for me no matter what situation I'm in, and LOOK for the solution He provides....which may not be what I want or expect, but will be what I need. Now, that makes for some exciting living! At least, I think so.

I suspect there's a serious lack of talent to draw from. Aside from that, it seems the "music" is being kept in a "safe zone". Very choir-like, not contemporary at all, and songs who's arrangements wouldn't require anything but the most minimal of instrumentation. The melodys seem rather depressing to me...no spark, no life, no excitement...just statements reflecting the doctrine which are forced into song form. So sad and lifeless. <_< Gimme Good Seed, or Pressed Down....SOMETHING with some FIRE in it!!! :D

WW, I left in '86 after, as you put it, a well planned exit strategy. I think there were many others who were planning their exit as well...at least at HQ. The "watch your back" atmosphere became oppressive. No one knew who to trust. It was like the place had become one big suspense movie...but in real life. Even leaving the grounds was a relief!

In theory, this would be true. But in practice, could you explain how a gun ban would insure the criminals would have no guns??? This is a typical argument which is "magical thinking". Of course we can never insure that criminals will not have guns. So, this argument is BS.

Even though I'm a relative new comer here, I have found open arms and friendly people to enjoy. This is indeed a unique place in all the web, and I'm deeply thankful to Paw and the moderators for the hard work they do to keep this place running. I feel privledged to be here among all these fine people...even the ones I disagree with. It's refreshing to disagree and still be able to dialog in a civil manner. GreaseSpot Cafe....where the men are strong, the women are beautiful, and the children are above average. ^_^ HAPPY ANNIVERSARY, GREASESPOT CAFE!!