Galen

Happy New Year everyone. :)

Our current model of conventional Ag is dependent on petroleum for the manufacture of fertilizers. If we lose access to oil, that segment of our food production is crippled. Our current model of conventional Ag is dependent on petroleum for herbicide synthesis [especially GMO crop production]. If we lose access to oil, that segment of our food production is crippled. As for Nuclear pollution, keep in mind that Solar panel manufacture produces more waste in terms of radioactive heavy metals. But it does not get much press. Does anyone remember Solyndra? Why were they not allowed to open for business? They would have been producing solar panels, and also as a by-product radioactive heavy metal waste. Solyndra could not pass the EPA requirements for disposal of the waste. Which is why Mexico produces so much of our solar panels and IC chips. :)

I enjoyed the trip. I saw a lot of stuff that I had read about for years. They were very good about avoiding 'traditional' sites that have no Biblical standing. But with the passing of years, I look through so many photos and they are all photos of strangers. Enjoy your trip :)

Try this: From there you can find the rest :)

I went in 2000. At the time I was living in Italy, I met the group at the airport in Jerusalem. The closest flight arrival I could get to their arrival was 14 hours before them. So I had a long wait in the terminal for them to arrive. I did not know any of them. So it was a group of strangers. There were lots of groups coming through the terminal. Not knowing anyone in the group, made it more stressful, as I did not have much to go on in terms of spotting the right group. I volunteered to carry and hold the lighting for the video equipment during each teaching. That was fun, but we were expecting to get copies on DVD soon afterward. The camera man was a professional from LA, with professional gear. But it never happened. Years went by. My inquiries were never answered. Then last fall [2013] the videos were finally made available on Youtube. That was sure a long delay. In a way, looking back, I would have been better off to not help with the lighting. During most of the teachings the camera would scan the surroundings and the crowd. Everyone in the group was filmed, except for the camera man and myself. Everyone did take a lot of photos. After the trip we did share the photos, and they were burned onto a CD. Again it was a group of people who all knew each other, so many of the photos were of each other. If I had brought my wife, then at least we would have photos of each other in all those Biblical sites. If you go, make a point of having someone else take your photo, at each place. So when your done, ten years from now, you will have photos of you at those places. Otherwise, ...

I can not see forbidding things that God does not forbid. Nor discouraging things that God commands. The only thing I ever heard on this topic was VPW teaching that polygamists were sex perverts [ which includes nearly all OT prophets]. I was hoping that is was not vague. That was why I put it in capital letters. Is there a better method? Do I repeat it a hundred times, before it grows to more than a vague generalization? Paul [a divorcee] traveled a lot. His recorded traveling companions were named men. In one passage Paul defends his associating with women. 1Cor9:3 indicates that he was being accused of mischief. 4 Have we not power to eat and to drink? 5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and [as] the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? 6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working? 7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? 8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10 Or saith he [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. 11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, [is it] a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If this passage were strictly about him being an hireling, then there was no need to mention females in the passage. He could freely eat of the harvest, the carnal things of the harvest. The harvest was not money from which to pay an hireling. The harvest was the 'babe's in the word that followed him. I suspect that VPW used this passage, in his own reasoning to justify his actions. Easier to justify than killing fellow christians right? But, hey I got my pension. So killing a few dozen Christian Forces in Kosovo was worth it right? :) I have participated in this being discussed in Twig. A great many of the 'old timers' have been on this forum, or one of the previous forums, and are aware of what happened. When I first began attending this Twig, the Coordinator [Ex-Corpse] and I had a number of conversations about his insistence on willful blindness. At times he had to go to great lengths, just to retain his 'positive attitude' and refuse to admit that wrong doing had happened. I rather enjoyed correcting him at times. Our last Region Coordinator, follows this forum as well. He and I have spoken a few times about the things I post here. :) I agree. It is generally my turn once a month to share a teaching. I do simple 'word studies'. As we were taught years ago. As I have always done. [Pick a passage, look for figures of speech, examine the original words used, with deeper insight reexamine the context to see how this changes the flavor of the context.] They all know how to do this. But it seems, that after many years of micromanagement, they have lost the ability. The others will read a magazine article, or a passage from some other book, reading around the Bible rarely the Bible itself. I had not thought to impugn Paul. No one on this forum [that I am aware[ of has done anything to make VPW look less bad. Certainly not I. Interesting that you wish to paint me in such a manner.

Subtly induce doubt? Let me say it louder for you. ALL MEN ARE SINNERS. WE ALL SIN. WE ARE FALL SHORT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. Yes, I have. It upset him very much, caused doubt and anguish, in that broken man's soul. I have spoken with the coordinator. We decided that this guy needs time. He was gone for a long time, and only recently returned. He has much to assimilate. I agree. Of course I remember. And yes, I agree with you. I have stated this same thing many times. Thank you for agreeing. I am well verse with the US Navy's methodology of 'leadership'. I also see the leadership requirements as listed in Timothy and in Titus. I have brought these up in Twigs. I have even taught these in Twigs. Yet TWI was not formed in a manner to accept, or utilize Biblical leadership principles. What the Navy does, works for the Navy. Keep in mind that the Navy destroys a lot of men's lives. Their system works for mission accomplishment. That does not mean it should be mimicked anywhere else. IMHO, in a godly organization, Biblical leadership principles should be used. :) I am certain you are correct. :)

Yes. Perhaps not 100% of the time, but certainly a majority of the time. To me it says that after VPW took BG Leonard's class and cut it down, he also gave it a marketing spin. VPW was a salesman. He built an organization focused on marketing classes. I have nothing against BG Leonard's work. But he never marketed it in the same manner, and never got the response that VPW got. I was recently working through the Gospels, and I came to the 'wineskin' topic. In context, Jesus spent a lot of time telling the Jews that the Gentiles were going to be coming into the fellowship. He spoke of this in many parables. A recurring theme of Jesus' to the Jews. Yes aged wine may be 'better', but it gets replaced with new wine in new vessels. I am from California. I have been Twig Coordinator of two different Twigs in California. As well as in four other states and one other country. I have no tattoo on my arm. I have one on my chest, two sea monsters chewing on a garbage can. It is my combat medal that I wore for many years, and decided to have tattooed on the spot where it goes on my uniform. :) I have seen, a few 'hints' in the New Testament that Paul may have been a womanizing scoundrel as well. I am not making excuse for VPW, or any of this batch. I see a lot of corruption in mainstream churches, I seem to see corruption everywhere. Men get 'power' and ... I do not think that power corrupts them, by itself. But that likely we are all corrupt to begin with. Power allows the corruption to grow. People put VPW on a pedestal. They convinced themselves he was holy. That it would be a spiritual honor to ... I see it now, in the Twg we attend. We have a couple people who clearly still worship VPW. Less than a month ago I heard: "... I was sitting in a class, he walked by and touched my shoulder, and that was the most spiritual moment of my entire life..."

The first Way Corpse I ever met face-to-face was Steve Strezpec, I had caught him in his web of lies to the believers. The first day, he declared that I was born of the adversary and booted me out from the fellowships. Over the years, I have been booted out three times. Each time, I was booted out by a Way Corpse. Each time, they were in direct violation of scripture. The last time, they demanded that we burn our Bibles. I have never seen that kind of behavior among Joe believers. Our current Twig Coordinator knows all about this, as does our region-whatever. I have not hidden my previous experiences with Way Corpse from the folks in our current twig. When we got back into it this time around, the region Coordinator is a guy who I had witnessed to, long ago. Among Joe Believers; there may be some who are HOT, and some who are mild. Among Joe Believers, I have never experienced that kind of evilness, that I have experienced from among some of the Way Corpse.

Not really. A ring-knocker is a ring-knocker.

I have never met: VP Wierwille, geer, rivenbark, townsend, lynn, or cumm!ns. I assume that most of them would fit into Group B. I did meet Martindale once, he was clearly a jerk during the 2 minutes that I was in his presence.

In my very limited exposure, I would have to say that Way Ministry Followers come in two primary flavors, or groups. A- people who have been loving, helpful and who seemed to be very authentic in ministering for God. The group A people have been wonderful. I have enjoyed knowing them and all of my dealing with them. B- people who have not been loving; nor helpful; and who I suspect were motivated out of pride or power trips. Group B people, well, there have only been a few instances where being around them was pleasant. We have always had to keep our 'guard up' around them. There have been many cases, in my life, where people from this group have been very hateful, and have tried to take advantage of me and others in the fellowship. In my experience, these two groups [A and B] have basically encompassed the vast majority of Way Ministry followers. I have voiced this opinion many times on this forum previously. This has been my observation, since I first began attending Way fellowships. Fellowships are comprised of these two groups. I have generally learned to spot them quickly. Fortunately group B people will tell, you right up front that they are in this group. People you suspect of being in group A, nearly always prove themselves to be from group A [loving, kind, helpful and authentic]. Likewise people who tell you they are in group B eventually prove themselves have the characteristics of group B. We hang out mostly with group A people. I am sure that you know who the group B people are.

Of what I see, about half. I do not know. In the 70s, I did not care what the corpse did. I don't care what the corpse does today. I doubt I will care in the future. :)

Classes have been ran in my area. More classes are being planned.

I generally follow any discussions, but I rarely post anymore. So much other stuff going on. :)

Happy New Year to everyone. May God bless you in all you do.

Classes are still offered, books are still available. Many sections of the book are word-for-word copied in PFAL, Though over-all PFAL is much shorter and briefer.

Tread softly :)

I am pretty sure that our fellowship / twig is 'sanctioned' as much as possible. Some get the magazine and the Sunday Service DVDs, and we get regular announcements of upcoming events. Some of us use the phrase 'twig' and some use 'fellowship'; I have not been told of any distinction between the use of these phrases.

I do not think that it would matter. I do not think that it would be 'wrong' in any manner to go to a fellowship when your motive is not to re-join. Your just curious and want to check it out. I see no harm on that. In my history, I have been kicked out three times; and each time I soon transferred to a different area. Afterwards each time when I approached a new twig, I was welcomed. There was always a few questions about where I had been in twigs before and which classes I had taken. But never did anyone ask me any details about why I had been booted out. I 're-entered' twigs in Virginia, and in Washington and here in Maine. Now I also did a few transfers where I was happily attending twig before my transfer, and made smooth transitions to new twigs in the new areas. Thinking back, I do not recall there honestly being any difference. When approaching a twig in a new area, I do not think that anyone there will really cares 'why' you left the previous twig. A few weeks ago I was at a dinner, and they got to talking about new 'pins' they have. Ten-year pins, twenty-year pins, thirty-year pins, etc. Our Region Co said to me that since I had been in and out many times, if I sat down with a calendar and figured out how many years I had spent 'in' that I could then ask for an appropriate pin from him. I do not feel that having been out is seen as any kind of stigma. If you want to go back fine, it you do not want to go back fine. They would be happy to see you, regardless of the circumstances.

That would make you the IDEAL wayfer, in most twigs I have been in. Yes there are the robots that read from the blue-book, or green-book, or brown-book, or magazine, etc. Not all wayfers do any form of research, and some twigs will be entirely make of the robots. But every class offered encourages each individual to do their own Independent research. When I got into The Way there was a emphasis on each person doing their own independent research. That was what got me 'hooked', it was the encouragement for each person to do his/her own study. As has been discussed many times on these forum, the majority of wayfers never did any themselves. Which is why there are the robots. I could go to sea with a pre-determined topic of study [My Dw and I having both decided on the topic]. Me with my handy KJV, Strong's Exhaustive, a Brown-Driver-Briggs, and my Dw with hers. 3 1/2 months later after I had surfaced and returned home; we could compare notes and be amazingly like-minded on what we had learned. We did that routine seventeen times [which is how many submarine patrols I have made, all of them ranging around 3 1/2 months long]. And every time the twigs we have been in, have been excited to have either or both of us to present our notes as 'teachings' in fellowship. The twig we are in now encourages this. We rotate among us each week, which of us gets to teach. Everytime my Dw or I share a topic it is always some off-the-wall thing that we have worked, and the folks in our twig love it. If you came along with a seminary background and doing your own independent research, you would be embraced in the twig we attend now. You would have been embraced in most of the twigs that we have been in [though I openly that not all twigs would embrace this, as folks who do their own research are rare. Regardless of how much it is encouraged most people simply do not do it]. :)

WordWolf - Just to clear up a misunderstanding, I am not a Knight Templar.

When I was a teen, I was a member of my local Southern Baptist church. Their tithe went to paying the salary of our minister, a custodian, a secretary, etc. The rest went to the Southern Baptist Convention. Then about the time I was a senior in high school it came out that most of our money had gone to South America where it had been supporting revolutionaries there. An investigation about the killings of missionaries showed that it was our tithe money that had paid for their weapons. I know all about the ways in which tithe money can be used to churches. Today I am a member of a men's fraternity, who has been openly hunted by various governments at the bequest of the Roman Catholic Church. In fact as a US servicemember I served in a nation where my fraternity is 'illegal' and members who are discovered are subject to imprisonment. All thanks to the tithes of Catholics. As far as I know, EVERY church that takes tithe is likely doing evil with it. This is the nature of organized churches. They are businesses. They operate on a bottom line, they must show a profit so they can support their salaried personnel. This is not about blinding anyone's eyes. I found wonderful truths about God while I was first attending a twig. I have also had run-ins with corpses. The first Corpse Grad I ever met was an arsehole, I caught him lying to believers, he admitted it to me and I made it known to the believers he was lying to. He [steve Strezpec] proclaimed to everyone that I was born of Satan's seed and threw me out of the fellowship. In fact most corpses I have ever met were arseholes; but that does not over-ride the fact that I have also met a great many wonderful believers. We have seen healings and miracles. Through out all of the horrible abuses that leaders have done, there has also been some very special people who I am glad that I knew. Among all of this there have also been a few leaders who have been good men. Of course anywhere you look, when people strive to be leaders they are usually power hungry arseholes. That is life. I served for over 20 years in the Navy, I know all about arseholes. Simply because a few exist is not reason to trash the entire US Navy. Nor is it reason to trash all of the good that is done in twigs. The 'life' of the Way is in the twigs. The twig we are in now is great. Got a question about anything? Lets open concordances, lexicons, Bibles and study it. Our Limb Coordinator now is a great guy. I have known him for 30+ years. He is not power hungry, nor does he have any evil intent. Rather he is pretty knowledgeable of the Bible and very loving.

What I said was not in the context of ministry BOD or presidents. I was only talking about Twig coordinators and Corpse personnel. I do understand that there have been issues with past and present presidents; though I have never known any of them, nor have I ever had any dealings with them. Since the people that you wish to discuss would be strangers to me, I feel it would be inappropriate for me to talk about them.

People on this forum have all had different experiences. There was a long period where leaders were poorly chosen, lacked training, and may not have been the best choice. But then again at the same time there have also been fellowships that have been the greatest. In the fellowship I attend now, your 'challenges' would be welcomed. There is a desire to keep things 'in order'. Which simply means to be respectful during the fellowship, but once we break for coffee or a meal; then it is fair game to ask questions, or 'challenge' anyone. We rotate among us each week for who is going to present something. Really if you challenged me, I would like it. I like doing 'word studies', so any opportunity to open the Bible and look at a context, or usages of a term is largely what we do. It is kind of boring if nobody ever does that. :) I think that among my fellowship your honest questions would be welcome and encouraged.