penworks

Some of us in the first few Way Corps groups especially, had a very different experience than what you describe as " No leading. No coercion. No manipulation past planting the original idea." Be cautious about generalizing how VP conducted himself towards others. Many people never knew him or were around him. Many people only went to a twig off somewhere in a small town and might think as you do that there was only a "suggestion." Just read the first few pages of the PFAL book and you can see that what VP called doing the Word was not a suggestion.

In one of my old Way Corps notebooks I wrote an entry dated 12/5/72. It is from my second year in the Way Corps at headquarters. We were sitting in the back of the BRC and VPW had us listen to a tape by Dr. Walter Martin called, The Kingdom of the Cults. Ironic, huh? One of VP's famous cliches was "a strong offense is the best defense" or put another way, "the best defense is a strong offense" - probably his adaptation of a basketball motto to a witnessing motto. He always told us "truth needs no defense." In having us listen to this cult tape, I can only imagine he was redirecting our attention away from his own cultish indoctrination. He tried to run interference about info on cults before we had a chance to realize we were in a cult ourselves! (his technique worked on me for MANY years). Point the finger at others and away from you at all costs! On the tape, Martin said cultists were people of these faiths: Mormonism, Christian Science, Bahiahism, what he called Spiritualists, and Unitarians. Others included the Jehovah Witnesses. One comment he made on the tape: "Cults devour people who don't know what they believe or can't prove it." And another doozie: "Cults are founded on what leaders say scriptures say." Mmm... Kingdom of the Cults

What can they possibly say to discount Kris's book, for instance? (oh, I forgot about the "she's possessed by devil spirits" excuse). I guess that's the same way they brush away my little memoir here about research if they bothered to read it at all. What possible motivation would Kris or any other woman have to write such a story, (taking YEARS of time to do, which writing a book takes), go to the enormous effort of finding a publisher (also not for the faint hearted), getting it published and promoting it all over the place as well as on her blog, etc. if she were lying? It sure can't be for the money. Give me a break. It would be a rare and crazy and stupid person lacking an ounce of sense who would stick her neck out, revealing such a story about herself, if it were not true. Kris wrote it to help people understand how this sort of thing happens, using herself as an example. (ask her on her blog). Kris is not lying about VP's preying on her. I know her story. I fact-checked the book for her. My former father-in-law, Dr. Joseph Bish*p is thanked in the front matter of the book. He counseled her when she first left in 1986 and returned to Rye, NY where he was the pastor of a church. He told us of her devastating situation back then. While I was not one of VP's "girls," I know some who were. This is not a light matter. This is serious business. This is not to be dismissed.

This made me laugh out loud. My daughter and I joke around (she was in TWI with me long ago) and use terms like "renew your mind" etc. Using TWI jargon is an inside joke with us - sometimes. Sometimes I can't stomach the nerve to use it even after all these years since I left (1987). Even when I go to Costco I cringe, when at the door when I'm leaving, a woman who often works there when I shop checks off my reciept and says, "Have a blessed day." I have an aversion to the word, "bless," which is unfortunate because it is such a lovely word. The poor lady is just trying to be nice to me. I hear VP's voice saying "God bless. " Yuk.

I believe this book is considered to be in the genre of memoir. Memoirs range in their approaches to depicting events that occurred in the writer's life. A good summary of the genre, in my opinion (I'm interested in this genre and have written a short one that's posted here on GSC), is the following: "The point - the glory - of memoir is that it anchors its authority in the actual life; it is a modeling of the process of creative self-inquiry as it is applied to the stuff of live experience. This really happened is the baseline contention of the memoir, and the fascination of the work - apart from the interest we have in what is told - is in tracking the artistic transformation of the actual via the alchemy of the psychological insight, pattern recognition, and lyrical evocation into a contained saga." ~ The Art of Time in Memoir: Then, Again by Sven Birkerts

I think being arrogant about one's faith is true for most people who think they're right about their religion, that theirs is the only way to God. While in TWI this arrogancy was especially heightened in me, I think, because I was a Corps grad. Although I tried to be kind and understanding, inside I felt I was more spiritual than other people because VPW had indoctrinated us Corps with the idea we were God's "green beret." While trying not to be snooty, I know I looked down my "spiritual" nose at others...which isn't spiritual at all. I'm deeply sorry about that. Pen

This topic of TWI plagarism can be found throughout GSC forum threads. VP made money off books he nearly 100% stole from Bullinger and Stiles and others and claimed he wrote. Visit this one of many articles by John Juedes, a long-time revealer of VPW fraudulent practices, plagarism, etc. Stolen Goods - How VP Wierwille plagarized from others to make Receiving the Holy Spirit Today

Yes, regarding K*aren, J. Cr*uch and Ch1p St@n$bury

Waysider is right about the Studies in Abundant Living volumes originally being little booklets (I took PFAL in Dec. 1970 and got a whole stack of them.) They were stapled booklets. They were often transcriptions of little teachings from Sunday night or parts of topics covered in the PFAL class, since there was no PFAL book yet, not until the first version was published in July 1971. I have a copy from the first batch and the writing, I agree, is terrible. It's mostly a transcription from the PFAL tapes, but it doesn't include the entire PFAL class verbatim. Before and after the Research Team at HQ was formed in the early 1980s, any publication under VPW's direction, such as JCOP, had VP's name on it, no matter how many other people contributed to the books, including Corps people and "faithful researchers" who never were in the Corps program, such as D*nna R*andall, VP's reserarch Secretary and W*later C*mmins (although I think he was in a special First Corps for couples or something in about 1975), and VP's eldest daughter, K&ren. By the time I was at HQ on the Research Team (1984-86), the policy of having VP's name on these publications was standard procedure. Most of these people had college degrees and knew something about how to write. But having VP's name on the book was tradition. He had the ultimate say so about the research and writing. One publication is an exception: The Concordance to the P-e-s-h-i-t-t-a- Version of the Aramaic N.T. (I worked on this) published in August 1985. VPW had no involvement with producing it other than providing financial funds to staff working on it. Credit is given this way: "Edited by the Way International Research Team." This decision was made, to the best of my remembrance, by WJC because VPW had died several months earlier. WJC was following precedent that VPW had begun. Although this publication is a text book of scholarly value, the usual attribution to the people responsible for the work is not given. I think the same is true of the Interlinear which came out a few years later. (P-e-s-h-i-t-t-a- has to be spelled with hyphens on this web site, otherwise a different word displays.) My take on the reason that no one else's name but VPW (and WJC sometimes) are on the books (and I was there) is obvious to most of us here at GSC: VPW did not go by "worldly" academic standards. There were many people over the years who had contributed to the overall Aramaic project, so perhaps the list would have been too long to cite anyhow. One compensation was given, though. An issue of The Way Magazine came out around the time of the Concordance's publication and listed the names of the major contributors.

I tend to agree with this, although I see young people in TWI offshoot groups who are blind to VP's plagarism, abuse, etc. and who continute to propagate the false notion of him as their "father in the Word." Guess what we can hope for is that any new recruits will get the information they need from the internet so they do NOT get involved. One issue I see is that some TWI offshoots do not admit their past connection to TWI and/or the doctrines they teach are based on Wierwille's stuff.

Check your messages.

Welcome to the cafe! Good for you on breaking away from others' control. I'm sorry to learn of your family's suffering in Way world and offshoots, though. Life can be hard, but now that you're re-grouping, at least you can weigh options instead of following orders. Life does get better the longer you are away from the old dogmas. Take a look around here and if there's anything I can help you with, send me a message. Cheers! Penworks

How about this one: "I'll put you on my lift list." I was told this by an uppiddy-up leader's wife at HQ after I resigned from the Research Team and she thought I might be "influenced" by someone who they thought was "influenced by the Adversary."

Fantastic analysis. I remember this sensation when I returned to college in 1986. I was still working at TWI and yet was able to run away to the branch campus of Ohio State in Lime, Ohio, resume my education and start sorting out the TWI trash from the TWI treasures (yes, there were some) in an environment that was safe. I eventually found my own voice. Cheers to you, Brainfixed. Penworks

This post raises a lot of questions. My favorite is: Why do Christians think they need a leader?

This thread reminds me of running into people you knew slightly while in TWI but now years later when you run into them you don't know what kind of reaction you might get if you talk to them. In about 1995, about 8 years after I left TWI, I was working in an office in FL at the front desk. One day a UPS guy came in the door to deliver a package. We looked at each other and I realized I knew him from TWI long ago. I think he was trying to figure out where he knew me from but before he had enought time, I left the room and waited until he'd gone before returning to my desk. Call me paranoid, but no telling what he might have said. I wasn't sure whether he was still in TWI or had left and didn't want to take any chances that he might confront me for leaving or something. I sure didn't want my co-workers to know I'd been in a cult. At least back then...people wouldn't have understood.

For those interested in interpretations of scripture and how they affected the creation of the USA, check out the PBS series on God in America. It just ran on public television earlier this week. It's a good overview of the various sorts of Christianity we've inherited. God in America

Stephen Prothero, the author of Religious Literacy that I mentioned in the opening of this thread, just appeared (along with other history and religion scholars) on PBS's 3-part series called, God in America. While the show is not that comprehensive (it's only 6 hrs. total) it is a good overview showing how religion and politics came to be so intertwined in this country. AND it naturally includes info on the development of fundamentalism which TWI is part of, particularly in its belief in the inerrancy of the scriptures and rejection of Darwinism. Visit God in America Cheers.

How much did you know about your own religion (if you had one) or about any religions at the time you took PFAL? Lately in the news I've been coming across articles covering religious literacy and remembered I knew nothing about most religions at the time I first took PFAL class. I did know plenty about Catholicism, since I was raised a Catholic and a little bit about evangelical Christianity because of involvement in Young Life in high school, but any other world religions - nope. Of course, I was only 18 when I took PFAL but I had no curiosity, really, about other world religions or even the origins of Protestantism or evangelicalism or fundamentalism or what they were all about. Perhaps if I had known there were more choices out there, I would have been a better informed student in PFAL and seen through some of the misrepresentations in the class, like the "first century church" was a unified force when it was actually very diverse and unorganized. Pick up any library book on early church history and you see this. Anyhow, for those interested, follow this link to an article in the NY Times today on this topic: Basic Religion Test Stumps Many Americans Also, a great book on the topic is one by Stephen Prothero with a chapter listing all sorts of concise definitions of terms: Religious Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know - And Doesn't Prothero's latest book is God in Not One, which I have not read yet. Cheers

Welcome to the cafe, Gerry. Enjoy!

I was all about them, indeed. Some people might now ask: Was Paul's behavior "true Christian" behavior? He said people should follow him, too, since he "fathered them in the Word." I'm NOT saying Paul was anything like VPW in any respect but this one. Am I missing something, or did Paul have a "right" to demand that of his followers? What do you say to someone who poses this question. Someone asked me this once and I couldn't deny Paul sounded like he was on an ego trip, too. Just sayin'...

Here's an example from my memory - When the leaders of the Way West and the Way East respectivley, D*op and H*efner, left TWI in about 1972, VPW told those of us in the Corps they these men had copped out or tripped out or got deceived by devil spirits (these terms all amounted to the same thing). They'd turned their backs on the Way. The logic was the Way taught the Word, so that meant they'd turned their backs on The Word. And what should we do when someone does that? Obey what the Word tells us to do, like in I Timothy 1:20. In that verse, Paul says of two people who opposed him, that he "delivered unto Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme." Additional logic went like this: Since TWI taught God's Word accurately, God had his hand on TWI, so if you left TWI, then you left God's ministry.

Thanks for the link. I think this is a good report. Interesting how a few things are a little different than when VPW was running TWI. One difference: he said original sin was masturbation, not lesbianism. That was a new Martindale decree. And all the mark and avoid names weren't in place so clearly as when LCM was in charge. Under VP, anyone who left was tricked by the devil, period, and he'd quote a verse or two that said not to fellowship with them. Anyhow, thanks for reminding me how hideous a group this is and how ashamed I am that I ever bought into its hideous beliefs like denial of the holocaust. Makes me want to continue speaking my story of "escape" with more determination than ever. Peace, Charlene

I simply don't have anything else to say in this particular thread. How can I comment on something I don't think is real? Anyhow, it's fun reading and I always learn a lot here. Cheers!