penworks

I think you are right about this "ignore" them and their importance will deflate aspect of things. There's a good lesson in that. On the other hand, there's also a good lesson in speaking out against "evil" or abuse or fraud when you know about it. For that reason, I speak out. No matter if only a few or none listen. To me, it's part of making restitution for having been part of the propaganda machine and misleading people into thinking TWI's interpretation of the Bible was the "accuracy" of the Bible, among other things they taught.... My method of handling my past involvement is my own personal choice, and I don't mean to say everyone should speak out or write letters. I only suggest that each of us follow our own conscience on what to do, if anything, about our past involvement with the cult, what we know about its problems, how they relate to the broader society, what to say about these issues and where and when to speak or write I've had the chance to speak publically about my memoir, Affinity for Windows (posted here at GSC) and facilitate discussions about cults and fundamentalism, thereby raising awareness. Guess in my old age I'm finally becoming an activist of sorts...but that shoe is not a one size fits all. Cheers.

All sorts of issues in this thread...guess the one that pops out at me is this point raised about "proven ministry research" what I call "so-called research." It sounds so nice to say we just open our Bibles, concordances, lexicons, etc. and do word studies, but really, what good does that do your life? Besides, the writers of the Bible naturally used different vocabularies so wouldn't word studies be more appropriately done within each separate book and not across the entire N.T.? Here's something to chew on: The original New Testament, if TWI sticks to what it used to believe in the old days, was written in Aramaic, not Greek. (I don't happen to think so any more but they do). So why does TWI insist on doing word studies in Greek "to get back to the original"? (I'm messing with you now. This topic is far more complicated than this). If research is done the way TWI tells it, "the accuracy of The Word," would be evident to everyone if they follow the keys to research in PFAL, like it's a yellow brick road. THE right interpretation would be clear as day to all and everyone would end up at the wizard's house. Doesn't turn out that way. That was the naive hope of Martin Luther long ago who said who needs the Church telling us what the right interpretation of Scriptures is? We can do that for ourselves if we just learn to read and get a printed Bible in our hands. Voila. But that didn't work out so well. Lots of fights sprung up about what scriptures meant and how to "apply them to everyday life." For instance should we have water baptisms or not? (this was before a guy named Nelson Darby (1800-1882), a Plymouth Brethren minister came up with a convenient way of dividing the Bible into dispensations (VPW called them administrations) to explain away "apparent contradicitons'. But I digress... My experience in TWI (19701987) involved accepting the approved answers in PFAL etc. (pointed out here already). If you like those answers, then good for you. Lots of us find them to be propaganda starting with the idea of inerrancy of the written texts (there I go again, nagging about inerrancy). Another reason their teachings are propaganda is that TWI provides only one story about what the Bible is and what it means. There are others and they are not "of the devil." If you go to the fellowship, ask them what TWI offers that is different from any other church (besides a history riddled with corruption and abuse). If they say they teach the "accuracy of the Bible" ask them how they know for sure...see what they say...ask they if they know how VPW stole the material for the PFAL class, Holy Spirit book and other materials. You can get those details here at GSC. If they tell you they have a research department, ask for names and credentials. Then make up your own mind. Oh, one last thing. Remember: A fundamentalist cult is not going to admit to being a fundamentalist cult. Cheers!

Nice work, Waysider. A great little book on this topic that I just finished reading is, The Faiths of the Founding Fathers, by David L. Holmes. Recommendation: "This brief, highly readable and responsible work of scholarship will serve as a fine antidote to the pious mythology which often passes for history on this subject." Peter W. Williams, author of America's Religions: From Their Origins to the Twenty-First Century. Cheers!

Okay, so you double-dog dared me. Have you sent in your letter to the editor yet? (See my post above.)

Yes, it was called By The Way. I still have some of the reprints. VPW did not write them, but probably came up with the general ideas. The articles were written by a Corps grad woman, Al*lison He#ney, a writer who worked on the Way Magazine, too. Her brother was in the 2nd Corps with me.

Last Monday I submitted a letter to the editor at the St. Mary's Evening Leader newspaper online. The problem is it was only ONE letter. How about YOU send one, too? If anyone wants to joint the write-in Occupy TWI movement, you can. Just go to their site, fill out the form for submission of letters to the editor, and click SUBMIT. The more letters they receive the more attention they'll give to the matter.Well...maybe...Who knows. Maybe they'll even publish one. St. Mary's Evening Leader newspaper Good luck. Cheers! Pen

TWI counts on the ignorance of people looking for "answers" and captures their minds not only for alliegence to TWI but for the broader movement called "fundamentalism." Perhaps some people here will appreciate this article on why even some evangelicals fear fundamentalists. Read here: The Evangelical Rejection of Reason

Flooding TWI with phone calls would be a kick...or sending a mass mailing of snail mail to every employee who works there, if we could get their names and addresses. OR perhaps an article sent to the St. Mary's Evening Leader would be appropriate...mmm...you guys are giving me ideas...shame on you!

This video is lovely, inspiring, and reports on an important undertaking for the people who need those amazing bridges. It seems a clever analogy if you still think the mirage of VP's "Word" is real, but it is ridiculous of JL to claim the story "parallels what we are to be doing with the Word." That is propaganda, and it isn't even very good propaganda IMO. Call me overly analytical, but for the analogy to be a good one, I suspect there would need to be one undeniably clear (to everyone on the planet) interpretation of what "the Word" is and what it says, if "The Word" refers to the Bible (which Bible is another matter). News flash to JL: you've oversimplified a complex issue like VP did. In other words, you are digging around in a can of worms, and sorry, but you can't build bridges out of worms. The don't stay still long enough. Words, yes, even words in Bibles, are wiggly things, and are subject to "private" interpretation the minute a human being reads them. VP's "keys to research" that JL clings to do not create a dependable vine . Why do you think we've got so many Protestant denominations? Why do you think Martin Luther broke away from the Catholics? He interpreted scripture differently ( and a few other reasons). VP's interpretations which JL promotes, although with some "tweaks", is plagarized from others who were fundamentalists. No doubt there is value in some of the teachings, regardless of where they came from, but let's remember, we're still dealing with people's interpretations, not an objective "Word" that JL thinks he can move over the world. He's moving words that wiggle like worms. A quick trip to the public library or to Google to check the aisles containing works on theology and Biblical interpretation shows you that the matter of "the Word" is not so simple. Knowledge on these topics is readily available. Cheers! Pen "I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect, has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo

This video is lovely, inspiring, and reports on an important undertaking for the people who need those amazing bridges. It seems a clever analogy if you still think the mirage of VP's "Word" is real, but it is ridiculous of JL to claim the story "parallels what we are to be doing with the Word." That is propaganda, and it isn't even very good propaganda IMO. Call me overly analytical, but for the analogy to be a good one, I suspect there would need to be one undeniably clear (to everyone on the planet) interpretation of what "the Word" is and what it says, if "The Word" refers to the Bible (which Bible is another matter). News flash to JL: you've oversimplified a complex issue like VP did. In other words, you are digging around in a can of worms, and sorry, but you can't build bridges out of worms. The don't stay still long enough. Words, yes, even words in Bibles, are wiggly things, and are subject to "private" interpretation the minute a human being reads them. VP's "keys to research" that JL clings to do not create a dependable vine . Why do you think we've got so many Protestant denominations? Why do you think Martin Luther broke away from the Catholics? He interpreted scripture differently. VP's interpretations which JL promotes, although with some "tweaks", is plagarized from others who were fundamentalists. No doubt there is value in some of the teachings, regardless of where they came from, but let's remember, we're still dealing with people's interpretations, not an objective "Word" that JL thinks he can move over the world. He's moving words that wiggle like worms. A quick trip to the public library or to Google to check the aisles containing works on theology and Biblical interpretation shows you that the matter of "the Word" is not so simple. Knowledge on these topics is readily available. Cheers! Pen "I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect, has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo

This video is lovely, inspiring, and reports on an important undertaking for the people who need those amazing bridges. It seems a clever analogy if you still think the mirage of VP's "Word" is real, but it is ridiculous of JL to claim the story "parallels what we are to be doing with the Word." That is propaganda, and it isn't even very good propaganda IMO. Call me overly analytical, but for the analogy to be a good one, I suspect there would need to be one undeniably clear (to everyone on the planet) interpretation of what "the Word" is and what it says, if "The Word" refers to the Bible (which Bible is another matter). News flash to JL: you've oversimplified a complex issue like VP did. In other words, you are digging around in a can of worms, and sorry, but you can't build bridges out of worms. The don't stay still long enough. Words, yes, even words in Bibles, are wiggly things, and are subject to "private" interpretation the minute a human being reads them. VP's "keys to research" that JL clings to do not create a dependable vine . Why do you think we've got so many Protestant denominations? Why do you think Martin Luther broke away from the Catholics? He interpreted scripture differently. VP's interpretations which JL promotes, although with some "tweaks", is plagarized from others who were fundamentalists. No doubt there is value in some of the teachings, regardless of where they came from, but let's remember, we're still dealing with people's interpretations, not an objective "Word" that JL thinks he can move over the world. He's moving words that wiggle like worms. A quick trip to the public library or to Google to check the aisles containing works on theology and Biblical interpretation shows you that the matter of "the Word" is not so simple. Knowledge on these topics is readily available. Cheers! Pen "I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect, has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo

One reason is that many of us mentioned by name in the book no longer "stand with" TWI, and in fact some of us speak out against it (for instance, me). It is a work of propaganda, as you describe, and it makes me sick that I am in it. Boy, how things in our youth come back to haunt us... Cheers! Charlene Lamy Edge (part of the ECU group of fanatics written about in the TWLIL)

True, we can't know everything. Letting go of that idea is one of the first steps, IMO, to compassion. I do have one question, though. If the Christian life is ONLY as the teacher defined it, how does she describe what makes it "Christian," since other faiths (and atheistis included) say they are about the same things: "about being good, being kind, being loving. It's about living a good life. That's all" Just curious...this question has mattered to me for a long time....

I was shocked to stumble across this today...Has anyone else seen this piece of TWI propaganda? Judging from the actors (I remember two of them) I think this was made in the 1980s sometime...in the auditorium.

Well, I'm inclined to agree with Karen Armstrong when she says of fundamentalism that we can't get the genie back in the bottle. It's here to stay. What we can do is try to prevent the fundies from becoming more extreme and harming others. With Wayfers, their thinking is already extreme. With its dogmas and behaviors, harm is done emotionally, spiritually, and mentally and sometimes physically. What we can do is prevent others from getting seduced into TWI and groups like it. Keep posting here!! And anywhere we can. Check this out: The Fundamentalists Cheers! Pen

Since I post here, when I read a statement like, " Most people like me won't touch this place with a ten foot pole" said by Johniam, it sure makes me wonder what sorts of people those are. I try not to take those statements personally, though. But I don't know how to take them impersonally, either...just sayin.

Dear DWBH, You are the Dude! Your memory is photographic or something!!! I often think of your interview posted here at GSC and tell people to listen to it! You mentioned the women at the ECU Way Home. Before the guys I mentioned above moved in the ECU Way Home with JAL, there were a couple of women living there with J*hn and M*ry S*mmerville. One was M*rcia Faul* who later married B*ll Gr*en and ran the Corps at HQ. While we're naming names for historical records, J. S*mmerville works (or at least a couple of years ago he did) as a tour guide for Israel trips sponsored by John Hagee Ministries. I've watched Hagee on T.V. He is the closest clone of VP I've seen. Sorry JAL, you didn't make the cut . Cheers!

One would be too many.

Hi everyone, esp. nice to see DWBH! This info might solve the photo mystery: I was from the ECU fellowship and was in the second Corps (1971-73). In those days, there was a Way Home set up in Greenville, NC, down the street from the ECU campus. When I took PFAL at the Way Home in Dec. 1970, John and Pat Lynn were living in it and so were several guys enrolled at ECU. They helped run PFAL classes, recruit other students into TWI, etc. VPW had set up this kind of thing because he wanted college educated leaders for his cult. The requirement for living with the Lynns was this: stay in college, get your degree, be a slave for TWI and then lucky you, you can come to HQ and spend only one year doing the in-resident program with the Way Corps and then graduate. Under this plan, Earl Burto*, Duk* Clark*, Randy Anders*n, Ger*ld Wren, I*n Murphy, and G*orge H*nley all did the Corps thing. Specifically, E*rl and R*ndy got their college degree before the others, so they came to HQ in the fall of 1971 and joined the First Corps, graduating with them in 1972. D*ke, Ger*ald, and I*an arrived at HQ in 1972 and graduated with us in the 2nd Corps in 1973. G*orge H. showed up in the fall of 1973 and graduated with the 3rd Corps in 1974. I believe the third corps was the last Corps to have two back-to-back years of Corps indoctrination and then graduate. After that, an interim year was added. Is this right, DWBH? Cheers!

Socks, you crack me up. " If God taught him, opened the scriptures ok, but apparently God wasn't up to redoing old work and just directed him to previous efforts. That's understandable, God has a lot to do but if it's all one happy bag of inspired work, all the better to clearly accredit God for past work well done and note the sources." Cheers! Penworks

I agree. I can verify this is what I witnessed in TWI from the two of them, too.

I truly believed God led me to it because I wanted to know what His Word "really" said. I found out what VPW "really" said that other people had already said.

Looks as if they might be able to climb rocks but spelling isn't part of their gig --- "Where Back!!!" What does that mean, Sowers????

About 2 years ago, from a very reliable source, I heard he was conducting tours around Israel for John Hagee's ministry. J.S. taught O.T. history at HQ a very long time ago.

Utterly amazing. Thanks for the links to the old threads on this topic, too.