Kevlar2000

Bumpy,

I would imagine few people in the U.S. would have heard about this, especially from HQ. It would not have fit their "no negatives" policy to disseminate this kind of information. I was "in" during the years you cited, and this is the first I'm hearing of it.

I remember someone's signature line on this forum reading something like this:

Some people see the glass as half full.

Others see it half empty.

I just want to know who's been drinking my beer!

I'm being forced to become more pragmatic in my thinking due to age and experience, but retain a core of optimistic expectation.

It used to be, "Thinketh no evil..."

Now it's, "Where there's smoke, there's probably a burning bag of s--t on my doorstep. Maybe somebody left it there by mistake."

My ideal? Wise as serpents, harmless as doves. (Don't splatter me, Psalmie!) :D :P

I the last area I was in there was a very disabled woman who had been in twi for a long time. She was a very sweet woman and I can only imagine what went on inside her in light of the Law of Believing teaching.

...None of it makes any sense at all. How sad.

Lindy, that woman's initials aren't S. E., are they?

Prayers and warm thoughts for Cindy, Steve and family.

But...but...on the GSC, I AM one of the younger guys......

She musta been talkin' about me, WordWolf. :)

Psalmie

I hope this day is so good for you that you'll be happier than a.....

well, you know. :D

The very happiest of birthdays to you!

I must be getting old. The age group of women that I used to think of as older women are now younger than me. :(

Funny how that happened, eh?

MILF may also simply refer to a woman who is older, has children, and is considered sexy and good-looking, rather than an expression of desiring to have sex with one's own mother or mother-surrogate, which is, clinically speaking, ewwwwww.

Geez, T-Bone, don't they ususally empty the cages before sending in maintenance or repair? Or was that the zoo's cheap method of feeding their animals?

"Yeah, we're really keeping our costs down."

Thank goodness that animal didn't get a hold of you. You would have gone from being T-Bone to Sushi!

how much $ do you want me to send you if you promise not to send that stuff to me!? maybe that would be a better angle!

Sounds like a Piranha Brothers scheme.

"...they began to operate what they called 'The Operation'... They would select a victim and then threaten to beat him up if he paid the so-called protection money.

Four months later they started another operation which the called 'The Other Operation'. In this racket they selected another victim and threatened not to beat him up if he didn't pay them.

One month later they hit upon 'The Other Other Operation'. In this the victim was threatened that if he didn't pay them, they would beat him up. This, for the Piranha brothers, was the turning point."

And you know, Glad, a perverse part of me would be interested in how many would seriously respond to such an offer. I would like to believe none would, but you know what P.T. Barnum said...

Sign 'em up!

I was wondering... can some of the followers/members/donors of CES/STFI get together and countersue M & KAG asking that they not be allowed to use CES/STFI money to fund their legal bills?

It seems like the "membership" should be able to bring some sort of action to keep him from what is obviously going to be a 'bring down the ship' by burning their money attempt...

I wouldn't think "M & KAG" would have access to CES/STFI funds to institute a lawsuit which could be detrimental to the organization itself. Wouldn't they have to get the Board to release the funds for that purpose?

I have irrational fears or phobias of things like sharks and mountain lions. In the ocean, I don't like the fact that I know there are tons of things living down below me that I can't see. I don't live someplace where I can go to the ocean, but I have still kayaked in the ocean and in brackish water (where many sharks feed). I don't let it affect me too much, even though we saw a shark the last time I went tandom with my wife, and it BUMPED US! Mountain lions are a reality around here in the mountains, and they have been known to attack people on rare occassions. I still hike in the mountains, but you can be damn sure I am always alert and safe, especially when with my boys. For me it is something about the lack of control- knowing things may be out there stalking me but without seeing it or knowing it and there most likely being little I could do if I was attacked. I have stress dreams about it sometimes, but I don't let that stop me. :)

I don't know, lindy - with you having been bumped by a shark, and living in an area where there are mountain lions, I would say you have a healthy, respectful and realistic fear of these predators.

I, on the other hand, have a completely irrational fear...of Komodo dragons. I've never been on the island of Komodo, or anywhere else where they would roam freely. Yet they completely freak me out. When the late Steve Irwin had an episode where he was on Komodo and he was wandering around and lying down in a dragon den, I watched, transfixed, almost unable to change the channel, I was horrified that much.

I'm not in a position where I would come into any sort of contact with them. I think there's one down at the Washington Zoo, but I'm not stupid enough to even ask to get in the cage with one of them, unlike some people. And yet, I'm scared s--tless of them. Now, that's irrational.

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I guess there can be two schools of thought about Mr. Wierwille's presentation of doubt, worry and fear resulting in unbelief. One could be he was trying to teach people how to recognize a train of thought that keep someone from believing what God says in the bible and, ultimately, from receiving into manifestation the holy spirit (i.e., speaking in tongues).

The other might be he was instilling a control device to keep class participants from questioning his presentation and his premises.

The problem is that Wierwille made this a law. Any fear, any doubt, any worry, was wrong, was negative believing. It was used as a mechanism for control. Don't question, don't doubt, don't worry, these are fear based, only trust in what TWI says God says. Period. We were first taught this in the FC in the context of "private interpretation" and "the fall of man." Accepting those teachings put us in a position of not questioning what we were taught and not considering other views, other doctrine. What TWI taught, what VPW taught, was not private interpretation it was THE rightly divided Word and we were not to consider anything else or doubt it etc. Further if we didn't accept and act on what was taught (as being the God breated Word) it was because of fear. Once we were taught it we were expected to believe it unequivically and act on it. TWI taught fear as an "attack of the adversary." That's the rub, that's the control.

Of course, the real problem may have been that we believed it enough not to question it. Ah well, lessons learned...the hard way.

Dearest Dottie, many happy returns of the day!

Forgive my inability to construct this next question to agree with everyone's theology...give me a bit of latitude here.....

[K2K - Not only latitude, but longitude as well ]

If God has placed His call for ministry into your heart should you "put your heart somewhere else for awhile" without His telling you to?

Frankly, if I had been part of not one, but two (or maybe more?) organizations whose "noble intentions" had turned so quickly to s--t, I would start to question if I was correctly interpreting how God wanted me to minister.

Maybe biblical research, teaching and fellowship is not the genuine calling of these folks.

When a building you design and build keeps collapsing, you not only examine it for structural integrity, you call in other experts to check your work - unless you really believe you have an insight to engineering that has not been known since the first century.

Seems like a waste of time and energy to me.

And money.

Other people's money.

Other people's hard-earned money.

Which maybe could have been better spent. By the people who sent it in.

I would imagine if people knew their "abundant sharing" (or whatever STFI calls it) was going toward payment of lawyers and lawsuits, there would have been second, third and even fourth thoughts about sending it in.

Perhaps, in the future, STFI could amend their business bylaws to establish dedicated "earmarked" financial accounts for their followers. That way, if you want your ABS (for lack of a better term) to go only for outreach, and not salaries, perks or lawsuits, you could earmark your funds into that account.

(I'm not even sure if that's possible; just throwing out some ideas so their followers can choose where in STFI their money is actually going).

...I recall being at a twi "party" and while outside (smoking a cig), I told an off color joke to a few guys...everybody laughed until I turned around and saw the branch leader glaring at me!...he took me aside and reamed me out.

thought it was funny and really didn't think anyone would get devil possessed listening to it...

Twi never allowed people to be themselves and to speak freely...everything was censored and controlled.

[sarcasm]When the Integrity of The Word ™ is at stake, you know what that kind of joking around will turn you into? A five-star hotel for a five-star general daimon! It's the Word, the Word, and nothing but the Word...and jokes approved by The Ministry ™! You have no friends AND no jokes when it comes to The Word! That kind of unrenewed-mind thinking is straight from the Pit where millions are now smoking! You need to take Das Klasse again so your speech may be salted, swaddled and marinated with The Word![/sarcasm]

Groucho, I'll bet you anything this "leader" would sometimes affect that "thousand-yard-into-infinity" spiritual stare, like every sense organ and nerve ending in his body was attuned to "all nine, all the time". So spiritual. So holy. So what.

I wouldn't have lasted five minutes with "leadership" like that. I love bad jokes, and wouldn't hesitate to tell one in fellowship...well, maybe not during the teaching itself. Unless I was doing the teaching.

"Now raise your right hands. do you swear.."

Defense: "I object. Your honor, Spiders can't swear..."

The he!! we can't! :)

JL,

Not goodbye, but au revoir.

And, if you ever think of me, remember those three little words that mean so much...

sign the will.

Do this in remembrance of me.

Another was pfal.

Why was it that the always had one bathroom.

In the 15 min break there was always one guy that would destroy it, while five others were

were about to pee their pants. Why not put in a candle. Walk in love please.

One time when I was young and single I walked in behind the mass destruction and had to

hold my breath to avoid throwing up. Well when I get out these two hot college girls get one whiff of

death from the bathroom give me a look like I am a pig and walk away. All I can say is it's not me.

copenhagen, I've been ROTFLMAO since I read this.

"Walk in love, you steenking sumbeeeeches!"

HAHAHAHAHAHA! god, I'm still laughing! Thanks!

Happy Birthday from me also. Hope all is well and your day is wonderful!

Happy Belated, Shellon!

i didn't know you could untake a class

Why, surrrrre, bless your heart!

When you take the class (take my class...please [thanks and RIP, Rodney D]) you become a Way "believer".

But when you become an un-believer, then you've untaken the class.

You're a cop-out (what would be a cop-in? Is that like copping a ... never mind), an empty floating next to the greatest cargoes of life, an unsalted walking meat stick.

(If someone's salt loses its savor, does someone's pepper lose its papor?)

I wonder if we are still listed as corps? Or did they burn us in some ritual?

Since you're no longer a Way "believer", you've untaken every class (hell, some of the classes you took have become "disappeared"), you're unrecognized in the Way Corps program, you're service has become unrecorded. It's like you never existed. For the Way.

You've become a Way "unbelieving unperson".

But for those of us whose lives you all touched (whose heart was to do a little good in the world), you will live forever.

Frack the Way.

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Ah, back to topic.

I found Donna Randall's 'Keys to Research' rather dry, but then again, I kind of expected a class that would cover actual research principles to be so.

Christian Family and Sex? It didn't faze me much, even with nakee people and slang terms. Well ok, the "head gasket for a hot rod" joke was getting tired the 4th or 5th time he told it. I was somewhat taken aback with the "original sin = masterbation" thing, not because I had never heard it before (and it was outside the Way framework), but by his statement of "Now, I can't prove this from the Bible...". I figured that statement gave me license not to believe his theory. So I didn't.

I think the class I was most disappointed in was the Advanced Class at Emporia in 1978. I and another person had hitched from Baltimore to Emporia, getting almost non-stop rides (we left late Thursday night and got there either early Saturday or Sunday morning [can't remember which day anymore, but I know we were there by Sunday]). It was an amazing trip, and we were both blessed, "high on God" and ready to receive. I was expecting to receive the fullness of instruction about the "revelation and impartation manifestations". I was actually expecting to have "excellor's sessions" as "Doctor" had described in the Foundational Class.

What I got was a lot of blather about the Illuminati. What I got was Mr. Wierwille's bad 'tude and crap about how we weren't committed to the Word and he was going to send us all home. What I got was Craig Martindale acting like King S--t of Turd Mountain. And the closest I got to doing the revelation and impartation manifestations was memorizing their definitions of those things.

Well, at least I had a great trip out there. <_<

...during all those years, you should have stuck to the leave it to beaver...re-runs.

But wasn't that the theme of the PFAL series - Leave it to Be-liever?

Both my parents got their turn spanking me that night. I was also grounded from watching "Lost in Space."

"Oh, the pain, the pain!"

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I guess I'm just extremely fortunate in that my kid, Bodhi Armour, never needed a whole lot of disciplining. She's just one of those kids whose disposition tends toward affable, good natured and go-along-to-get-along. She's her own person, and somehow learned not to let people pressure her to violate her own sense of right and wrong.

I think it also helped that her mom and I have a sense of life and humor that dwells firmly in the Land of Odd near the Border of Bizarre. We laughed more than we screamed, and I think that rubbed off on her.

I've only ever spanked her once (her mom has never spanked her) - I don't even remember what it was for. Just a light, quick smack on the butt.

And I felt like such a completely inhuman s--t for hurting this sweet, good-natured kid. I've never done it since. Never needed to.

I'm not sure if this contributes to the arguments for or against spanking. I certainly got my share when I was a kid, but that was different times and a completely different living situation.

I just feel like it's an option of last resort. IMHO.

you sure it's not for "Completely Idiotic?"

Nah, it really stands for Completely Completely Complete Charismatic Cookie-Cutter Christianity Incorporated.

What? Oh, the other "C"s are silent.

Because you know, the greatest cargoes of life come in

over quiet "C"s.

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Uptown, you ask if there's hope?

While there's life, there's hope. So they'd better get busy figuring out what went wrong, and decide not to do that again.

As Jack Handey, author of the "Deep Thoughts" series said,

"With every new sunrise, there is a new chance. But with every sunset, you blew it."

I *lost* the popularity award a long time ago.;)

d, next time you enter the popularity contest, remember: Vaseline on the teeth, Preparation H under the eyes.