Kevlar2000

Sprawled, maybe we are! Both of our avatars are wearing glasses.

Musta been one heckuva labor. No wonder Mom's still pi$$ed!

Tom Strange,

Thot's riiiiiiiiight, bless your heart. It just sits there in all its ineffable greatness like a duck zombie.

(And, of course the opposite of "ineffable" is "effable", which means, "able to eff" )

dmiller,

You are now in charge of our Research Department. And our Beverage Department. Please have an article ready for our next issue of "C'mere." :)

What a lovely, lovely picture dmiller. Thanks.

I thought it was spiritually significant that the four Greasespotters having their birthday today were all 52.

Who can tell us, class, the spiritual significance of the number "52"?

Hey Betty, Herb Wexler, copythisnow and rhema,

Happy Birthday, and welcome to Club 52!

I do remember, though, how hurt I was when I realized that twi, which I'd devoted a lot of heart and time to, was crashing and burning. So I feel bad for the people who jumped off the twi bandwagon and onto the CES bandwagon. To those people I say, never forget that your relationship with God isn't dependent on any man or any organization. If you will give yourself half a chance, you'll see how fantastic life can be on the other side of this mess.

I also feel bad for CES/STFI supporters who are finding out, once again, how full of "clay" the feet of men can be.

I especially feel bad for those who had to come to Greasespot to find out what was happening with their "leadership" instead of hearing it first from the principals in that organization. Nothing wrong with Greasespot Cafe, but you should have heard it first from them.

I echo Linda's sentiments. Life can be wonderful without someone else telling you what you must believe.

I'll bite -

"Ma'am, your breasts are just too big!"

and

"Honey, next time, would you please leave the seat up?" (just kidding about that one [and of course, the one before it]; I put the seat and the lid down after use.)

Thank you Shell!

Excie,

Speaking of "sweet young things"... :wub:

Thanks!

(((Psalm))) - grieving with you.

You all are a bunch of quitters!

I'm so proud of you...

Hi, (((excathedra)))

Sorry I didn't see your post until I posted the above narrative. I think even more slowly than I type.

Thanks again for starting this topic. Mwah!

First of all, (((((Linda))))), congratulations for making the decision!

I was two-plus packs a day when I quit, and I was just tired of smoking that much.

I was tired of hocking up all that green, phlegmy crap every morning.

My wife was a non-smoker, and I hated polluting her airspace, yet didn't want to be exiled to "the void" (outside) when I wanted to light up (which was often).

My work was slowly but certainly set to become a "non-smoking area".

I guess, in short, I was ready to quit.

Ironically, it was the night I first heard about (some of) the crap going on with the Way that I decided to quit for good, rather than keep on smoking to help with the stress and anxiety. Maybe God was working within me to help. I'm not discounting that possibility.

It's been 20 years this past September since I quit. Yeah, I still think about lighting up occasionally, but, like you, I can no longer stand the smell of cigarette smoke, especially when there are a lot of people smoking, especially in a bar. That ususally "cures" me pretty quick.

Also, what helps me is saying to myself, "You're a non-smoker." And not even in the sense of saying it over and over, like a mantra or like "renewing your mind", but saying it because it's who you are. It is now part of your identity; part of what makes you, you. "Light up? Why would I do that? I don't smoke - I'm a non-smoker."

I don't mean to go on and on about this, because if there's anything worse than a Wierwille apologist, it's a "born-again" non-smoker. :) Just wanted to share, and hope that there's something useful you can use.

Thank you all for your warm (and funny) wishes. You all are the best!

Excie and tonto, it was as much fun as the old boy could stand (see below and laugh).

Roy, thank you. I appreciate being able to have lived this long. I hope God's all right with it as well.

T-Bone, I'll take both - as long as the beer is Guinness (do they make ammo, too? I'll have to check the boutique section on their website - www.guinness.com)

Chatty, what I did between 18 and 2000? I kept upgrading!

Belle, that Frisbee is great! I'll have to find one. And resistant to dog bites. Always a plus.

dmiller, that happy birthday gif is great. I like how it's so festive - makes me want to go out and party (again, see below and laugh).

Ah, let's see, what did I do on my birthday?

Well, I got up. (and at my age, I'm thankful I'm still doing that.)

I went to work at an unnamed government agency for half a day. (I could tell you the name of it, but then I'd have to condemn your property and build a road over it.) Solved numerous minor crises, placated some public officials, infuriated others. A good time was had by all.

Took the rest of the day off. Had routine service maintenance done to the car. Picked up dry cleaning. Worked out at Bally's (nope, still no sign of LCM :) ). Called my mother so she could wish me happy birthday. (I would say I talked to her, but she does most of the talking :) )

Was invited by my estranged wife to come over to her house for a birthday dinner. It was quite tasty. (I don't like using the word "estranged" when talking about her, because it sounds too much like "strange", and if anyone in that relationship was strange...it wasn't her.)

Afterwards, I went to an Irish-themed pub to drink some Guinness (Yay ) and listen to some live music. I started chatting up some sweet young thing, but a couple of minutes into the conversation, she looks closer at me and says, "How old are you?" I told her (always having found it hard to be intentionally dishonest). She quickly moved away. I thought of that phrase from the "Just for Men" commercial, "Bruised and Refused!" :lol:

I'm still chuckling about that as I'm typing this.

But you know, one of the last things I thought about before going to sleep last night was, It's been 20 years ago this month since I left TWI. And every year, I still consider that one of the best birthday presents I ever gave myself.

Thanks again all!

I was at the Chicago conference in '86 or '87 (I forget the exact year now), when JAL, Dubofsky, Belt, and others were there *explaining* the twi doings.

I remember that NO one wanted to sing songs.

While that seemed *cool* at the time -- the focus was on hang-ups of men.

Specifically docvic, and lcm.

And the focus also (Bullinger), was on what was said from the podium.

Now --- there are probably others here, who were also (Bullinger) there.

Mabey their concept of the meeting is different than mine ---

but from what I remember -- it was an *I'm right* and *Docvic was wrong* atmosphere.

Didn't hear a whole lot about Jesus or the Word in that meeting.

It was all about *we versus them*.

I'm not trying to *rag* on anybody, since I was a zombie back then as well.

I guess my point is -- had we sung some songs, not focused on the folks on stage,

and pointed our interest to where it should have been directed in the first place --

things might have turned out different.

d,

I was at some of those type of meetings with RD and JAL in the MD/DC area around that time, and frankly, with the information they were presenting, I would not have been in the mood for music (even though I love to sing).

I was still wandering around in a state of shock. The information they were presenting was flooring me. Even though I had quit the Way by early 1987 (20 years ago! Woo-Hoo!), I was still ignorant about much that had happened to decimate "The Ministry". I was sad, depressed, angry...and I'm just not sure what kind of music they could have presented that would have brought me "up".

Of course, you're correct that had they "pointed our interest to where it should have been directed in the first place --

things might have turned out different."

But the information we were getting at that time from them was far better than the information we were getting from TWI...which was nothing.

So . . . can I assume everyone, without exception, that attends an offshoot or likes PFAL worships VPW?

(Assuming also that attending an offshoot and likes PFAL = worship)

Or is that everyone without distinction?

You could probably assume some who head up these groups, promote most of the things Mr. Wierwille did, speak of him in reverential tones, regard him as a legitimate "Doctor" (and still refer to him with that one-word honorific), and still make reference to his little "bon mots" as words to live by (especially when they knew of his darker, seamier side), may be indulging in, if not "worship", then undeserved adulation.

Many who attend these groups may also be similarly afflicted.

Everyone? Nah...unless they willingly kiss the Founding MOG's statuette. (I'm still laughing over that one. A statuette? "But...but...it's just because we love him so!")

Attending a TWI offshoot is not synonymous with worshipping VPW , excusing VPW, or condoning rape.

Accepting the content of PFAL is not synonymous with worshipping VPW , excusing VPW, or condoning rape.

That depends. How independently have you considered the information presented in the Power for Abundant Living class series? Or do you have a mindset of "'Doctor' said it...that settles it!"?

Like "all without exception" vs. "all without distinction". Does the mind still glaze over with the brilliance of "Doctor's" juxtaposition in his handling of the Word, or does the lightbulb go off when you realize, "Hey! They mean the same frakin' thing!"

Does even the possibility of entertaining the thought, "Maybe the whole Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, isn't the revealed Word and Will of God," fill you with dread, self-loathing and an irrational fear that you might soil yourself in condemnation and sin-conciousness?

To me, asking questions about what is conventionally accepted is the beginning of knowledge, starting with its most basic, foundational tenets.

Especially if the group which chiefly expounded those tenets is in the toilet, spiritually and ethically speaking.

And, knowing the depths of how people have been abused and degraded by "Doctor" Wierwille, why wouldn't you question everything the man ever said or did?

To those who would accept PFAL without deeper reflection, and would accept those who re-package and promote it, I would only say

Caveat emptor - Let the buyer beware.

George and Tom,

I believe you're referring to the "I have a dream" speech, which was given on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in 1963.

The "I've been to the mountaintop" speech was given in Memphis on April 3, 1968, the day before he was assassinated.

Here's a Timeline of Events from LSU's website.

Doojable, for your (or anyone's) interest and perusal, here is a listing of some of his other speeches.

Thanks all for your comments.

"Well, I don't know what will happen now. We've got some difficult days ahead. But it doesn't matter with me now. Because I've been to the mountaintop. And I don't mind. Like anybody, I would like to live a long life. Longevity has its place. But I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do God's will. And He's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the promised land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the promised land. And I'm happy, tonight. I'm not worried about anything. I'm not fearing any man. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord." (Emphasis mine)

This is from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s speech the night before he was assassinated.

I wonder if God gave him some 'personal prophecy' about his imminent demise, and gave him a vision to bolster him, to give him strength to endure what was to come the next day.

Your thoughts?

I can't for the life of me imagine how all of the others (the Rs, the Ss, the Ts, the Galls) could have been on the same board with them and not known or participated in these things... and cannot imagine how any supporter of CES could continue to support a CES that had any of them running it...

...standing by and allowing even the things that have been brought 'to light' thus far is certainly enough to show that they shouldn't be "in charge"...

...others sharing information would not fall under the realm of "gossip"... I'd think it would fall more accurately under the realm of "information that sheds light upon darkness"...

To paraphrase Yoda, The Dark Side clouds Everything! Blind are we, if this evil we could not see!

Adherents and supporters of CES/STFI (as well as of other groups implying their "curve on the truth" is superior to other groups) may wish to consider deeply the points Tom Strange makes in his post, and re-evaluate whether or not they trust anything these folks have to say.

Maybe all the principals in this sad story should have taken a good long vacation from being bible teachers and counselors after their exit from the Way.

Why was this babe such a critic?

I think you saw manifested in the senses realm the internal spiritual reality that, while beauty may be skin-deep, ugly goes all the way to the bone.

And of course, potato, they sent you a response that was full of Christian love, concern and a desire to magnify the name of the Lord in your heart, right?

Riiiiiiiiiight.

Congratulations on your continued recovery from that wicked religion.

I had been in the Way for 28 years and they stripped me of my AC status. ... once the AC status was removed, I was no longer allowed to attend any AC meetings or functions etc.

It was degrading and humiliating, but I refused to give them the money it would take to regain that status. I had taken the original and then taken it twice again in residence. Then I had to take the new AC to retain my status, and the New New AC to retain that status, from which we were kicked out by the local ego maniac leadership.

I know this was a ploy and a device invented by Way "leadership", but how could they not understand this would infuriate people who had paid good (and in most cases, hard-earned) money, taken precious leave from work, travelled far distances (mostly at their own expense) and endured other hardships to participate in and be a graduate of The Way International's premier and ultimate class on Power for Abundant Living?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I still have my graduation certificate signed by Pikes Peak's most well-known and celebrated Doctor of Theology! Tell me I'm not an AC graduate! *tongue firmly in cheek*

I am glad I am out ...I say to anyone still in Run, Run fast (my emphasis).

Always good advice when it comes to The Way.

But, seems that they have "seen many deliverances and miracles."

Bliss (and anyone else, really),

Do they ever specify the "deliverances and miracles" they've seen?

Too funny, Shaz and johniam.

I had once owned a 1613/14 King James Bible. In the center (between the New and Old Testaments) was a section of Psalms set to music. The introduction to this section said that its purpose was to counteract the proliferation of madrigals, "which corrupt our youth."

Of course, in addition to sacred madrigals, you had your fair share of 'secular' ones, like

Fair Phyllis, with its double entendre line, "Up and down he wandered,"

or "He that will an alehouse keep must have these things in store; a chamber and a feather bed, a chimney and a....

Hey nonny nonny no!" Oh naughty, naughty ellipsis!

(Or maybe "Hey nonny nonny no" was madrigal code for "Hey nonny nonny yeah yeah yeah!")

"So you see, folks, I was right about emissions contributing to Global Warming.

And I also won the 2000 election!

And yes, I did invent the Internet!

So y'all can kiss my vented, unelected and interconnected @$$!

Al Gore will rise again in 2010!"

(oh, wait...)

Ahhhhh Guinness!

I need a drool smiley right about now. :)

"So, I introduce the Most Right Reverent G.Gordon Godfrey!"

Dear M.R.R. Godfrey,

Your Personal Prophecies appeal to me in a most sublime manner, but, being a discriminating ex-cultist, I must completely satisfy myself as to your bona fides before I subscribe to your Prophecy-a-Day ™ email service (motto: a Prophecy-a-Day will keep Satan away!).

So....

How much can you leg-press?

:wacko: