Rocky

There's not enough information in your post to answer your question. Please be more specific. Thanks. Who? What? When? Where? How? Why? Those would be some good places to start.

Me too.

Btw, T-Bone, I very much enjoy that you and I can bounce ideas off of each other and come up with a bigger understanding.

IMO, that male/female dichotomy is changing. Men "socialized to be more independent" are, too often, becoming the examples of toxic masculinity. But I love the imagery of people willing to take risks about their view of God and religion graduating. For a number of years, I've considered that Wierwille's view of God and the bible was far too narrow. He talked about his God being big, but he acted as if God wasn't really so big. Chipping away at him until he fits in a particular box. That box, of course, was the size of his ego. That's one big give away on why The Way International was at the beginning and always has been a cult. A high-demand subculture unto itself. That just doesn't fit with how I understand the bible or God these days.

Yeah, I picked up on that too. Wonderful insight, IMO.

I realize this is anecdotal and not based on aggregated data, but I wonder for how many of you this might ring true. From a 2/25/2021 Twitter post from a young minister, @Caitlin J. Stout A friend asked the other day what percentage of people I went to youth group with “deconstructed” and what percentage remained evangelical. As I thought about it, I realized that for the most part it was the kids who took their faith the most seriously who eventually walked away.

What a wonderful article. Thanks T-Bone.

3 Not only so, but we[c] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. In Romans 5:3-4, as I understand it now, Paul articulates that process of developing our authentic self.

The museum idea came to me because of events last year around the country regarding removal of confederate monuments, which became a controversial issue. During a zoom meetup with historians facilitated by the Arizona Historical Society, some of them opposed removal. Others recommended the artifacts be preserved in museums dedicated to putting them in historical context so people now and in the future would better understand the changing times in our country. I'm all for preserving them, despite twi's practice of burning books and other objects they consider dangerous. Putting twi (and other cult) symbols and artifacts in perspective for young people now and for future generations appeals to me. Perhaps Penworks has thought of this before, considering her involvement with the International Cultic Studies Association.

Thanks T-Bone. Methinks you told the your story of how sunesis worked in your head in this situation. Thanks for sharing that insight.

They belong in a museum for cult symbols... that's what your display is, right?

Not an endorsement of their message, but these gals are much more enjoyable to watch than the Renewed Mind singers.

YES! Shortcuts for our brain! Cognitive dissonance that festered, perhaps, to ultimately free you from the power of twi symbols.

An enlightening and very legitimate inquiry. From wikipedia, "A symbol is a mark, sign, or word that indicates, signifies, or is understood as representing an idea, object, or relationship. Symbols allow people to go beyond what is known or seen by creating linkages between otherwise very different concepts and experiences. All communication (and data processing) is achieved through the use of symbols. Symbols take the form of words, sounds, gestures, ideas, or visual images and are used to convey other ideas and beliefs. For example, a red octagon is a common [virtually universal] symbol for "STOP"; on maps, blue lines often represent rivers; and a red rose often symbolizes love and compassion. Numerals are symbols for numbers; letters of an alphabet may be symbols for certain phonemes; and personal names are symbols representing individuals. The variable 'x', in a mathematical equation, may symbolize the position of a particle in space." ----- For understanding cults, it's important to understand that HUMANS, no matter how discerning and thoughtful any of us can or might be, we ALL take shortcuts. For example, when driving to work or home, if we take the same route all the time, we may get to our destination and NOT be able to consciously remember every time we shifted gears (if we drive a vehicle with standard transmission) or remember having passed any given intersection along the way. That's because we were essentially on autopilot, which is akin to habits we no longer have to think about, we just do. Regarding our cult experience, we (repeatedly) took the PFLAP class, the first major mind control mechanism we (almost always willingly) subjected ourselves to in twi. Even the first time, if we had questions, we were not allowed to ask them (ostensibly until the end of session 12). But how many people forgot about those questions in the meantime? Therefore, when we heard catch phrases like those Penworks included in her paper, we didn't think consciously about whether we agreed with them or not. We simply accepted them as legitimate and truthful and moved on. This actually may be exactly how we were BRAINWASHED. The important question to ask yourself may be, well, WHY did you (I) get hooked in the first place? Again, Charlene at least partially answers the question in her paper when she says we were hungry to know God. Wierwille (and his agents, those who "got us in the Word") claimed and made an argument that HE (VeePee) alone had the key to getting that fulfilled. But was it really that alone? I say that no, it wasn't. The bottom line is that we needed to belong. We found a group of people with whom we believed we belonged. The "hunger for God" was the ongoing hook that got us to donate more of our earnings than they deserved and to buy more classes, books, and study materials all designed to validate Wierwille as the Great One... even though they didn't dare use that expression, which was reserved for God and the Bible. Hence, the symbols triggered compliance and took the place of our conscious thought and critical analysis.

That's why twi is barely hanging on by a thread.

Brandeis made his famous statement that “sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants” in a 1913 Harper’s Weekly article, entitled “What Publicity Can Do.” But it was an image that had been in his mind for decades. Twenty years earlier, in a letter to his fiance, Brandeis had expressed an interest in writing a “a sort of companion piece” to his influential article on “The Right to Privacy,” but this time he would focus on “The Duty of Publicity.” He had been thinking, he wrote, “about the wickedness of people shielding wrongdoers & passing them off (or at least allowing them to pass themselves off) as honest men.” He then proposed a remedy:

Indeed, MLE's approach is bold. As long as she's telling her own story, she should be okay.

Your entire post/comment resonates with me. I believe I've said the same thing about the authoritarian structure in different words, a number of times over the last twenty years. I saw it as the accountability in the social structure was bass-ackward in twi. In Acts, the elders held themselves accountable to the people who supported them. IMO, the entire Christian church, at least in the Western world, looks at authority in such a way that the elders were considered "leaders" who must be followed. That's dangerous stuff all around. And I believe that's why sexual abuse is pervasive regardless of denomination.

My community believes Phil, and other men trained as ministers in The Way International, are righteous, knowledgeable authorities and that the beautiful women they surrounded themselves with are lucky to be in their presence. This organization, a recognized cult, has significant claims of sexual and spiritual abuse, dating back to the 1970s. In this community, these are swept under the rug and brushed aside as “how men behave.” Is that how your community behaves? Where a man “teaches” sexually starved young women, who believe him to be a friend and mentor, by forcing his fingers inside their vaginas while asking, “Do you like it?” “Let me show you something,” he commanded right before the second assault, as he bent me over his desk and shoved his hand up my skirt. I had arrived intending to rebuild the church database; this was not the way I wanted to volunteer. From a post dated 3/21/2021 at MyRapistLivesHere. Note: the person who posted her story at that link can be found on Instagram and YouTube.

My community believes Phil, and other men trained as ministers in The Way International, are righteous, knowledgeable authorities and that the beautiful women they surrounded themselves with are lucky to be in their presence. This organization, a recognized cult, has significant claims of sexual and spiritual abuse, dating back to the 1970s. In this community, these are swept under the rug and brushed aside as “how men behave.” Is that how your community behaves? Where a man “teaches” sexually starved young women, who believe him to be a friend and mentor, by forcing his fingers inside their vaginas while asking, “Do you like it?” “Let me show you something,” he commanded right before the second assault, as he bent me over his desk and shoved his hand up my skirt. I had arrived intending to rebuild the church database; this was not the way I wanted to volunteer. (excerpted from MyRapistLivesHere.com, posted 3/21/2021)

Nice! An apt summary.

Truth.