Rocky

When you put it that way, the origin myth of Christianity seems quite trite. Yet, your analysis does expose underlying issues with a tradition which has achieved hegemony in the minds and societies of what I can only guess now to be at least a few billion people currently alive humans.

Emotional concerns, and THIS is an emotion related issue, cannot be resolved by logic, IMO. As I see it, they can only be resolved by healing processes and sustained emotional support. You're either triggered or you're not as a result of something someone says. Recognizing the fact (mindful awareness) that you've been triggered, is, I suppose, the first step to healing. (AS I currently view the situation). I'm thankful you're not trying to set rules for anyone regarding this particular trigger word. I think of this in terms antifragility. Perhaps long hidden fragility, if one considers the emotional impact of the word in their life at this moment. For more on my understanding of antifragility, rather than expounding it here, I will only mention there's a discussion thread on the subject in the About the Way forum. Far be it from me to tell anyone what they SHOULD do or how they SHOULD view the experience from their younger days in Wierwille's cult. A former housemate of mine, God rest his soul, J Fred Wilson, explored something he told me was called Re-evaluation therapy. Me? I just read and try to fill my brain/mind with alternatives to decide what to keep and what to reject from my cult experience.

Wow! From a logic perspective, that would seem reasonable. I view the Bible as an anthology of stories. Stories don't generally adhere to logic formats.

Are you saying you want to set forth rules as to what anyone, by saying something particular (that might irk you) "SHOULD" mean and/or conversely what they SHOULD NOT be allowed to mean? I apologize for apparently having used a trigger word from our long gone cult past. NO offense intended to anyone.

Well... okay then. 1) I do NOT see myself walking into anyone's parish, fellowship, church, or otherwise characterized religious practice/group and denouncing them. Whether it was Christian flavor, Jewish, Muslim, Hindi, or Pagan ...etc. 2) I made a statement of how I see the situation, disclaiming any knowledge of data or related statistics. 3) Christofascist activity, IMO, is abhorrent. Any person's personal religious practice is totally NOT my concern. i.e. freedom of worship being built into the fabric of American Constitutional order. 4) IIRC, I have recently noted (on GSC) my belief that churches (and other religiously oriented groups) fulfill a legitimate social function in our society even when I am not interested in participating therein.

Yes, apples and oranges.

Also, to understand this, shouldn't we figure out whether Christ has forgiven anyone? As I understand it, hasn't GOD forgiven each believer as a cleansing at the point of accepting Jesus as Lord? Look, I'm confident I'm not going to satisfy everyone. Whether they are satisfied by trapping me in a gotcha, is also a different situation. I don't know if that's what anyone's getting at here, but if it is, it's no skin off my nose.

Indeed. The general concept of humans forgiving others is not directly related to the Christian notion of redemption. I don't believe it is possible for ME to clearly spell out the differences in an online forum. I'm comfortable with the ambiguity involved in trying to understand the different situations. I'd have to apologize if someone reading/following along at home is not. I appreciate the request for clarification. All I can say at this point is I see them as very different concepts. Christian redemption is one thing. What individual humans must do to unburden themselves from emotional situations in which they hold a grudge against another human is entirely a different concept. I apologize if that doesn't satisfy any reader.

Logic is a framework for thinking and analysis, sure. I don't see it as chains on a person's ability to understand life. So yes, I contradicted something. But I tried to explain why I believe it was warranted. Was Einstein always correct in everything he believed and propounded?

Why would/could that be the case? Philosophically, the entire premise of Christianity is wrapped around the concept of redemption, isn't it? From my perspective these days, it seems early homo sapiens probably developed awareness of humanity's emotional and behavioral awkwardness and frailty. They had to come up with both an origin story or (myth) and a way to overcome the human tendency to hurt other people they cared about. Jesus wasn't the first or only person or character to meet that need. IDK, I'm just thinking "out loud" so to speak.

https://youtube.com/shorts/JPJ4sCkKtDI?si=AYguydEHmYw3R_q7

IOW, it's a social concept... like having community w/people who (roughly) share the values and beliefs. Which, IMO, is the bottom-line of what Victor Wierwille set up. His PFLAP class was a mechanism to tap what was already indoctrinated into young people, tweak it, make himself the guru, and go from there. That is, whether he knew it or not. It reaped him temporal (money, sex, and power) benefits even though he sold it as heavenly rewards. Regardless of the degree to which the 30% of Americans figure is fair or accurate, LOTS of people are coming around to seeing the folly in churchianity.

Yeah, obviously the term organized religion also belies the fact the English language doesn't have "a word" that properly captures the essence of what is meant. Hence, it's left to people's minds to play word games (which is a valid thing to do) and pose (rhetorical) questions about disorganized religion.

I certainly haven't found it, but when I was a young man, I followed a man who claimed he had the truth. Today, I embrace life's chaos as well as holding that Proverbs 2: 1-5 are my favorite scripture verses. However, I'm not interested in developing followers. THIS is my approach, not my truth. My son, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you, 2 turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding— 3 indeed, if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding, 4 and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure, 5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

Poignant AND salient. And eloquent. Thanks for posting it. I'm also confident that ultimately forgiveness is for the person doing the forgiving.

Maybe so. I won't go that far, but as a critique of his PFLAP class, it seems fitting.

I'm hopeful someday, humanity will be able to do this things. Go to the ant, thou sluggard. That is, if humanity survives as long as ants have on our planet.

Cancer?

America’s nonreligious are a growing, diverse phenomenon. They really don’t like organized religion Gee, I wonder why that is.

Yes and yes.

I saw a pic of the new post card. It's of the no-longer F***Mobile. One side of the card has a long view of the side of the bus. The address side has a pic of the back of the bus promoting PFLAP Today with a chyron kinda text at the bottom "Be part of the [bowel?] movement."

IOW, I disagree that my question was off topic. But I won't push it.

If you have a subscription to Netflix, you may view a new documentary about ‘The Darkness within La Luz del Mundo’ on Netflix, a Grueling Documentary About a Religious Cult That Sheltered its Leaders’ Sex Crimes The Darkness within La Luz del Mundo (now on Netflix) is the second grueling documentary in the last year about the crimes perpetrated by Mexican religious leader Naason Joaquin Garcia. This Netflix original follows 2022’s HBO three-parter Unveiled: Surviving La Luz del Mundo, both of which track the details of Garcia’s serial sexual abuse of minors, and give survivors a platform to share their harrowing experiences. So be aware: the film (a Spanish-language production from director Carlos Perez Osorio) and this review contain some difficult-to-hear, potentially upsetting testimonials, but they carry the weight and power of truth – truth that could potentially topple a morally corrupt figurehead. The Gist: “We chose him as our savior.” That’s how the followers of Aaron Joaquin Gonzalez choose to phrase their devotion to the founder of La Luz del Mundo (which translates to “The Light of the World”), a Christian primitivist church founded in Guadalajara in 1926. Curious, considering Gonzalez declared himself to be an apostle of Jesus Christ after saying he experienced a holy vision. But that’s brainwashing for you, the circular “logic” of a cult – a cult that allegedly perpetrated a vast number of sex crimes, including rape, trafficking and child pornography for nearly a century. Allegations came to light in 2019, when five Jane Does came forward to accuse current church “apostle” Naason Joaquin Garcia of abusing them. It's rated TV-MA and has in a subtitle at the beginning, translating from Spanish, The church says it has 5 million followers and 15,000 temples. Does any of this sound familiar?

And wouldn't it be intriguing to imagine HOW humankind could evolve to somehow not depend on cults behaviors to survive, as individuals or groups?

What's the standard in that lyric? The action word is "imagine," isn't it? Did he imagine? Did he try to imagine what he'd do with or without money? I appreciate the story at that link. Thanks.