Rocky

Indeed, does shiftthis even have a clue as to why, at the various ROA festivals in August, the medical help tent was called THIRD aid, rather than first aid?

Only two? What makes you think you're the only one who has said or even thought any of that?

An important reflection, Twinky. I suspect that current twi "innies" use the irrational rationale as explained by shiftthis because it's been offered as an effective shiny object to distract followers away from having to assess wierwille's depravity.

Indeed, Wierwille was not physically attractive... but, seduction is not limited to sex. In fact, if the seduction techniques used in twi had been of the kind to reach into the soul of a person and touch that soul with a word or an action that demonstrated a kindness to the person that was meaningful, THAT is seduction. Seduction without ulterior motives. I suspect that kind of seduction took place from time to time in twi, AND elsewhere, and provided a kind of deliverance to plenty of people. If twi could have understood that, and effectively communicated it, we might not be sitting here writing posts on GSC right now. Alas, because the organization was corrupt at its core, because the heart of its founder appeared not to know that truth, twi couldn't make it the foundation of its growth strategy. Anyway, just a little bit of my stream of consciousness for the moment. Thanks for indulging me. Btw, a couple of TED talks opened my eyes to the notion that seduction is not always or only about sex.

How nice, that's what I call it too. ;)

Incredibly poignant words. Thanks, Twinky, for writing them.

My 2 cents. I was overseas (USAF) on an island where the primary military mission was logistical for supporting European US military operations, at the time of the Israeli airlift. My involvement was nothing out of my ordinary job as a telecom systems tech. Looking back, for me, on wierwille wanting a military-like organization was solely and exclusively about the fact that he wanted adulation and obedience. Nothing more, nothing less. All WC "training" was about obedience, not about spiritual growth. Ooops, excuse me, "spiritual growth" was the label they put on obedience training. In the 1990s, well after leaving twi, I learned about servant-leadership and learning organizations. Twi was about neither of those things.

I had never heard the term Bataan Death March. So, I looked it up. That abomination sparked memory for me of a freshman class in Humanities I took in 1972, where we discussed "man's inhumanity to man." This may be the first time I've agreed with MRAP (on anything he may have written at gsc), but yeah, it seems that invoking the BDM in relation to reading an offensive website could serve to trivialize that particular horrific historic event.

Amazingly, many of us (including me) bought into some kind of mind control in order to fall for that scheme. Makes me think about another cult like group that promised 70 virgins for something or other.

Isn't the "original" vpw's grandson involved with the outfit in Mississippi?

Corps = corpse. Wierwille = corpse.

Not surprising. :)

That's really what churches are about, for most people anyway, IMO. In the mid-1990s, I attended a community church for a couple of years. It was okay. They did believe in the trinity but I ignored that aspect. Eventually, I came to realize I didn't really need their fellowship either. Oh, we ALL need some kind of fellowship. A sense of belonging, with people who have a common purpose. I found it elsewhere. And then I realized moral people exist outside of churches and Christianity. And I agree wholeheartedly with Tzaia. It's tremendously liberating to just not care what others think about religious issues.

Ahhhh. Okay. I see. :)

Indeed. I think FRC may be based out of Colorado Springs. When I flew into that city (cheap airfare) to spend a week in Denver (July 2014), I was astounded at the pervasiveness of two things in that city. 1) Military installations (including the Air Force Academy) and 2) Dominionist and other self-described Religious Right churches/organizations.It's so thick there that the county refused to license any cannabis dispensaries.

Huh?

FRC is a Dominionist organization (as well as being fundamentalist).

Did you participate in sexual activity with people more than a year or so younger than you? If not, then it's not the same thing as in this situation with a highly public family. Additionally, I don't think bickering over the semantics regarding the relative evil of molesting vs intercourse is really relevant to the discussion... unless the intercourse resulted in pregnancy. Otherwise, it's still sexual activity most likely in violation of state laws, depending on which state they are or were living in.

This might only be sorta kinda on topic. ... or something like that.

It's not just something you get over... -- Leah Remini On the subject of her leaving the church of scientology... two years ago now. I bet there are plenty of former wayfers who understand what she means.

Here's the rub, MRAP. YOU have your perspective and you're welcome to it. BUT... who the h e l l are you to say whether anyone else's energy and knowledge is misspent? Isn't that sort of overly arrogant of you? That and that you believe your insight will provide enlightenment for anyone else. Okay, I think maybe my insight MIGHT enlighten others. But if I think my insight is NECESSARILY the right insight for anyone else, wouldn't that be just narcissistic? I put my thoughts out there for others to read. If THEY decide what I have offered is useful to them, that's wonderful. I'm confident, however, that there are plenty of people who read what I write and think I'm off my rocker. And that's just fine with me. One of the primary subculture problems with twi was that others, primarily in the "chain of command" thought and acted as if whatever they decided (because it must have been revelation from God) I should do, they had a right to demand I do. That's just f***ed up. And that you expressed these concepts (multiple times), judging the words and actions of other posters here at GSC as somehow deficient, improper or otherwise not as efficient as they should have been in their lives, might (a word to the wise, etc.) help you to have the light come on in your mind as to why people respond(ed) to you they way they have and they do. Okay, so you were a lifer in the military. Good for you. I served one enlistment, so I got a taste of military life. There is NO chain of command at GSC. There is no chain of command in life, unless you specifically choose (or are unlucky enough to have found yourself unwillingly in) an organization so structured. Put plainly, you have no right and no standing to pass judgment on anyone here.

Probably?

Nice to see you again, Skyrider. :) I concur wholeheartedly.

You certainly are still young. :) You were an infant when I first was introduced to twi at age 19.

Of course, that's not necessarily the thread topic, but hey, why not set forth (probably a bit less awkward if you had started a new thread dedicated to setting forth your observations) what you have seen and how you put it all together in your perception? Your perception/observation/opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. I don't agree with it or see it the same way, but that's okay. The only concern I'd have with what you said above is to be careful in making heavy handed judgment of people. Your perspective is not the only valid way to look at it all. As to the GSC mission, I wouldn't worry so much about it. The information on peoples' experiences with TWI, Martindale and Wierwille have been spelled out in painstaking detail. People who come here can take it or leave it, just as you can. Nobody's getting paid to advance the mission, whatever that mission may be. So, as a message board, GSC has provided a forum for people to both express and read about their own and other people's experience. That's really all it's about as I see it. It's been real. :)