Rocky

Wierwille was a prick and a charlatan from the word go. Plenty of us struggled to figure out if he started out with honorable intent. I've come to the perspective that no, from the time he started rebelling against the denomination that originally ordained him he had the intent to build an organization that he was the focus, focal point and the entire reason for its existence. All or most of us idealistic youth who got caught up in his scheme probably had honorable intentions from the start. But that's how things go in cults. Penworks posted an interesting link to a you tube channel in the cult prevention thread. I watched one of the videos and it sounded like most of the people telling their stories could have been us.

Thanks for that link. This video clip, " " is particularly poignant.

I care. I just don't personally have the resources to do anything about it. I also don't think a knee jerk military response would necessarily either solve anything or do any good. Solutions to major world complex problems generally require studied, complex, rational consideration before rushing off half-cocked into another endless war. Solutions to major societal problems at home also require rational consideration and investigation into root causes before potentially successful attempts to solve those problems can be formulated. It's been a LOOOOOONG time since I believed Johnny Townsend's BS about everything in and about life being simple.

Excellent analysis, IMO. Thanks for articulating it. Group norms. And yes, Stockholm Syndrome.

I find the expression, "the world shrugs" intriguing. While one inference (Raf stated) indicates your disapproval (Skyrider) of the Ferguson protests, I see much more to that expression. Whether you mean it or not is certainly something you can clarify. I don't pretend to be able to read minds. I do, however, read words. "The world shrugs" suggests you believe somebody (we?) should do something about the attack in Pakistan. What response, by whom, paid for by whose tax dollars, do you believe would be the appropriate response? Btw, your declaration "people seemingly disturbed by a grand jury verdict wherein forensic evidence upheld a police officer in Ferguson, MO defending himself from assault" reveals a lot too. First, you've apparently passed judgment that a black teenager in an economically depressed community who seemingly committed a misdemeanor offense was rightfully executed. If that's not what you meant, by all means, please clarify for us. However, the grand jury declining to indict is not something that in and of itself supports a claim that the forensic evidence cleared Wilson. The grand jury process is not even close to a trial in front of a fact finding jury and judge. The grand jury failed to indict because it was given only the information and evidence the prosecutor wanted to give it. Transcripts have already shown that there was prosecutorial misconduct in the instructions one of the prosecutors gave to the jurors about a Missouri statute that had decades ago been declared unconstitutional by SCOTUS.

Defending himself from assault? Really? Here's your Smoking Gun about the witness who allegedly corroborated Wilson's story.

You can always ask. You may or may not be satisfied with whether you get answers to your questions. But it never hurts to ask. I don't really have recollection of any serious confrontations by LCM or VPW wannabees. That could partially be because I didn't take them seriously. I think the key may be in the word "wannabee." Young children learn by imitating their parents, siblings and others with whom they come in contact. That's what happened a LOT with the way corpse. But it took, IMO, a special kind of arrogance and hate to instill the kind of terror in people that LCM and VPW did. But then again, it made enough of an impression on me that I let it adversely impact my family relationships. Which is what I was saying that perhaps inspired the first post on this thread.

FWIW, Raf didn't need to read minds or exercise any form of clairvoyance. He simply read what you said, Skyrider and articulated reasonable inferences easily made from them.

I've worked in government and journalism covering government. I'm not aware of anything more detailed proposing control or mitigation of cult risk in society. Instead, I am aware of how huge of a sociological conundrum the entire notion presents. At this point in world and US history, I don't know that anyone has or can have any detailed plan, that doesn't infringe on religious liberty, to control cults. If you're so inclined to commit to years of study of public policy, psychology and sociology, maybe you can come up with something... eventually. It's such an overwhelming idea that it's difficult to imagine what such a solution could look like.

Of course. But also that LCM and VPW were not only the archetypes of people who influenced me, I got dosed with their wrath directly, as opposed to second or third hand.

Actually, having been in the 9th way corpse, it wasn't just imitating people who imitated Dictor. I was a target of his wrath personally a couple of times.

What do you propose?

Along with that education -- which probably is most feasible in the family/home -- there would need to be nurture of each person's emotional development to maturity... which is not something society today seems to do well across the board. Some do, some don't.

Are you saying your comments are just idle chatter? You asked questions. Have you actually pondered how they might be answered? The road I've traveled includes pondering questions of group development and maintenance as well as, on many additional issues, awareness of political processes such as legislating.

Why would I need to block you? And more to the point, if you don't care whether anyone has any idea what you are trying to communicate, why bother?

Thanks for that, Waysider.

I'm totally on board with what Waysider has posted in this thread. And I think JavaJane's comment above is wonderfully on the mark. I still don't get what Bolshevik's ultimately getting at.

Having lost my feline companion of 15 years less than a month ago, this idea is among the issues I wrestle with.

The mother is still in RRF, VB's TWI offshoot. Darn tootin' she's just as culpable. I hope Carmen and Lindsay reconcile someday. It took a lot of guts for both Lindsay to come forward and make the whole thing public and for Carmen to come as far as he has so far in accepting responsibility. I realize he's got a ways to go still.

What kind of law did you have in mind? The questions you ask about preventing "more cults from popping up" are not answerable in sound bytes that would be readable on a forum. These are complex sociological, psychological questions/discussions. Get into the realm of legislation or constitutional law and it gets even more complicated. I'm really wondering what your overall intention is with these threads.

That's pretty darn good... and plenty concise.

Not really relevant to this discussion.

My sources tell me that the radioactive by product story is a false myth. Indeed, my understanding of Solyndra comports with what WordWolf said. And when the business plan becomes economically unfeasible, that's not the same as some government agency saying they aren't allowed to open for business.

And YES, what Wierwille built was a cult.

It can be explained. It has been explained. Just because you don't understand it enough to explain it doesn't mean someone else hasn't. The wikipedia article Twinky cited has a couple of dozen references/citations/articles by scholars who have studied the phenomenon. Philip Zimbardo, an emeritus professor at Stanford, studied and . He's also one of the references in the wiki on cult.