Rocky

Of course, you should also be able to find that book at your local library.

Besides what others have said, you may want to become familiar with reading the Nutrition Facts on labels of almost all foods these days. That will tell you how much and in what balance or combination that item is in carbs/fat/protein. Atkins sounds daunting, as in giving up all the stuff you love, but it's really not that bad when you get right down to it... or if not going gung ho on Atkins, decreasing carbs and increasing protein however you choose to do it. There are lots of ways to make your meals interesting without adding lots of sugar and starchy foods. I have had no trouble at all giving up potatoes and most fried foods. On veggies and meats, various sauces (like cheese or cheese sauce on broccoli) and various Mrs. Dash saltless concoctions work wonders in making it feel like you're not giving anything up. To sweeten things, SPLENDA is wonderful.

Yeah, Andruw's still awfully young (even though he's been in the league, what 10-12 years) but those numbers make him look like retirement is on the horizon.

Bullseye! One of the moments of cognative disonance I mentioned previously occurred while I was a WOW in northern Ohio. The family coordinator was an 11th corps guy on his interim year. I remember several times when he told me (emphatically) that I was too prideful. Of course, that was because I was telling him I didn't agree with his view/judgement on something or other. This occurred several times that year. I was, at that time, just beginning to trust my own relationship with God... or my own judgement, however you'd like to look at it. And even when I couldn't say it out loud because of his rebuke, I told myself I knew he what he was saying was bovine feces. I had been in the 9th corps... didn't finish my interim year... but I think it was largely because of this interaction with the 11th corps guy that I never felt compelled to re-enter the WC program... it's not that he was all bad. He wasn't. I've been in touch with him since and he's a decent guy. In fact, I went back to college right after that wow year and ended up getting my degree with the same major he had gotten his in (he got his before going in the WC). But the cognative disonance was signficant regarding the culture of obedience... It was a couple of years later that the PooP thing happened and I was ready to jettison twi by then.

Yes the equation is simple, but the process, IMO also (as you have indicated you believe), is certainly more complicated. As nota said, age plays into it... my understanding is because that as we age, we don't generate as much HGH (human growth hormone) on our own... Indeed, there are numerous factors that influence metabolism, exercise and muscle mass being among them... stress and cortisol (cortisol being another hormone) definitely are on the list. I would (and DO) attribute a great deal of my past weight gain to stress. No one that I've noticed, has mentioned SLEEP. Occasionally, there's a news item about a study showing that sleep deprivation can exacerbate weight gain... I believe sleep and stress are both MAJOR factors...

To me, the expression "perpetual adolescence" rings loud and clear. It was when a number of people began to emerge, in their personal development, from that stunted emotional growth state in the mid 1980s that lights started turning on about what we all had gotten ourselves into. I can reflect back to a couple of points in my late 20s when I started to have brief moments of cognative dissonance regarding some of the things twi expected of me... then, when the big "exodus" around 1986, when JAL, Tom Reahard, et.al stirred things up when they tried to confront twi leadership... I had just graduated from college (at age 31) and was ready myself to begin emerging from that (no longer) perpetual adolescence... which, I suppose, is why I left twi that year. I realize it's only tangentially related to the topic of therapeutic relationships, but it is a theme evoked by what DWBH posted in this thread.

May not hear from simonz for several days... he's vacationing in Chicago...

Yet, earlier in the timeline he described, I got the impression it was an issue of them still trying to sort it all out... again, at that time, DWBH and most of the rest of them were still VERY young to have this all develop in their midst as it were.

As used by DWBH, confidentiality is an issue of codes of professional conduct subject to licensing regulation. It's not an option.

I'm sure you're not simply accepting that you're doomed to an existence as a shallow individual... frankly, my impression is that from where DWBH was in the organization and in his personal journey, there are other things that probably would have been important in order for him or others at that time to have successfully gotten law enforcement involved... First, it would have taken someone who was NOT just beginning to figure it all out. Second, that someone with some background to understand the legal/organizational/emotional issues would have been critical in being able to keep it from being completely covered up... because it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that twi would have immediately gone into VERY INTENSE damage control mode... and we've had several accounts, from different people as to what twi was capable of doing when "circling the wagons."

I think that must have been brewing inside of you for a VERY long time. I see a capacity for empathy and compassion in you that has burdened you and caused that confusion and chaos you described... I say that because I believe the confusion and chaos came from the conflict of genuine humanity (that empathy and compassion) with the unparalleled exposure you had to the inner workings of a very sick organization. I believe you witnessed incredible narcissism that, for a long time you couldn't understand because of what wierwille built into that organization and taught as its philosophical underpinnings (his version of "truth" -- a mixture of convoluted interpretation of the bible with his self-serving rationalization of what freedom in Christ would mean in the organization). And that observation -- the capacity to recognize it for what it genuinely was -- caused you great anguish. Anguish that perhaps made you wonder at times if it was even worth it to be capable of seeing it. I believe your description of the increasing need for legitimate counseling because of what came with the increasing numbers of followers of TWI/wierwille is right on the mark. And how wierwille eschewed the necessary training/understanding of the fields of psychiatry/psychology and related social work and other mental health disciplines underscores the blatant narcissism which was the root of the evil in wierwille's organization. I say this from my observations, my studies, and my reflections which are NOT those of a mental health professional. But when I actually committed myself to getting through college, at least to get a bachelor's degree, I craved the insights I was able glean from social science and humanities classes... and later took upon myself to read a number of books that some might consider pop psychology, but for me helped me understand more about what goes on inside my head and heart. So, there you have it... that's my take. Oh... and I forgot to mention that you neglected to cite wierwille as a verbal and emotional abuser of both men and women. This I know from experience... having observed and personally been the target of some of it at a couple of points in the year I spent at Emporia.

THAT IS the bottom line. And actually, I will have to, after Belle clarified my understanding, at least partially agree with sudo. While I agree with the emphasis on weight training, any exercise that impacts the balance of the equation, either consuming fewer calories or expending more, will ultimately impact weight management. What the emphasis on weight training CAN do is assist a person in becoming a more efficient spender of calories. That's what I meant when I said that MUSCLE BURNS calories, but fat stores calories. The more muscle you have, the more calories you can burn in a given period of time, than you otherwise would have. That goes for periods of exercise and periods of sitting/resting. AND in case I missed anyone having added in this caveat, I apologize, but it's worth repeating anyway -- consult your physician before beginning any significant change in exercise routines.

To order your own DVD copy of The Last Lecture It's only $7.00

I want to read his book.

Mstar and tzaia, Like rascal said, replying to it represents validation. If you completely ignore it, you do not provide it with "entertainment" (or validation). PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL.

BMI? Isn't that a German sports car maker? just kidding. BMI calculator Calculating BMI is the easy part. Perhaps, Ron, you were wondering about calculating body fat/lean muscle percentages? If so, that takes more than just plugging some numbers into a table. I understand there are ways to do that by measuring the amount of water you displace (like in a bathtub). But I don't know how that works. I get fat/lean percentages measured/calculated at the kinesiotherapy clinic at the VA medical center, generally once/month. They have a gadget that reads soundwaves or something like that on your arm to measure density, then with height and weight calculates the percentages.

Exactly! Eloquently and elegantly put.

Rascal, IGNORING DOES WORK. Ignoring (aka DON'T FEED THE TROLL) is NOT the same as turning a blind eye. Ignoring in this case is refusing to meet the unspoken (or sometimes spoken) demand of the troll to play the game by his rules. When NO ONE takes the bait, the troll starves to death. This IS effective and perhaps the most merciful approach overall. Turning a blind eye is to essentially recognize a behavior that is done for a different reason (for example, Rosie turned a blind eye to Martindale's pervasive sexual harassment in the workplace). The behavior of the violator in that situation, the sexual predator, was NOT being done for the purpose of getting people to engage the predator in verbal sparring. Instead, Rosie's turning a blind eye, in that situation ENABLED the predator to feed his evil lust by using people without detection by many... because Rosie KNEW but didn't speak up and out. COMPLETELY different motivations of the perpetrators of the unacceptable actions/conduct. Now I SEE -- PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL. Do NOT even respond. Do NOT even acknowledge. This WILL WORK when it is done consistently. Now I SEE -- PLEASE do NOT feed the troll. Do not even address any point the troll posts. This WILL work when done consistently.

Abi, The solution is SIMPLY -- Do NOT feed the troll. Do not answer. Do not respond. Do not reply. Do not REASON with. Just IGNORE it. Consciously. Deliberately. Consistently. Universally. Nothing more. Nothing less. Do NOT acknowledge ANY point the troll thinks it's making. When EVERYONE does this consistently, it will (eventually) work. It will not necessarily be by banning the troll, but if it (the troll) is ignored by all, if the bait is NEVER taken, it ceases to meet whatever need it represents to the troll. Period. End of story.

Well put.

Garth... PLEASE don't feed the troll.

And so, you will continue to feed the troll? I certainly hope not. If you are a wise man, you'll investigate my claim. However, trolls are generally NOT wise people.

Come on dude, don't be that way... you know she did NOT say that. But she DID say similar to what I said about each individual figuring out what works for them... why do you want to argue?

This is PARADISE!!! :)

Not a snow ball's chance in Phoenix in August of THAT EVER happening. However, experience has demonstrated dramatically that NOTHING like "show[ing] them the error in their thought" will change them. Sociologists have observed that for adults to change personal values takes a major "significant emotional event" in the life of the person who will make the change. Showing the error of their ways (or thoughts, or beliefs or actions... etc.) is NOT the kind of "significant emotional event" that will cause a troll like WD to change his values. Changing values Could there ever be an opportunity to change these values and, thus, change attitudes which result in new behavior? According to Dr. Morris Massey, a noted national speaker and expert on values, it would take a "significant emotional event" to do this. (continued, including to list examples of such events, at the link provided)...