mj412

your right Garth, and that is exactly why some never have any problems with such groups and the destruction they have brought . I will define cult as a group that hurts another for their own gain, while using God and faith as a standard of truth. it is general and I could include alot more detailed issues.

ex. it was built on family and friends for the most part.. then outreach which met anyone who was got in were to make twi folks their family and friends. the time it took to maintain twi for folks was incredible after pfal it sucked your time and resources in like a vacum and for many of us when we left we had nothing left of a life without twi and its people. nothing and that is why so many had to flee to the off shoots . we forgot how to live without the influence and we didnt know how to think of a life when we didnt pay someone money to tell us gods words etc... pathetic.

good for you Raf. lets take it a step farther then and excuse Martindale for his sins" the thing is this while that was going on both john S. and John Lynn were married and doing the same thing! twi got sued because they have the money honey and John Lynn started what led to that mess all over agin in a new town with some fesh paint . here is the killer for me ON the fact twi was wrong about adultry !!!! lololol give me a break he backstabbed his way into the money roll and it was an easy ride and plenty to put more on his OWN pay roll of deceit. yeah I was there he sang a tune of victim pretty dam long and hard HIS OWN SELF poor guy with the boo hoo about how howard never gave him a reason for being fired and they never gave him the money for the books he wrote . on and on he rode the pity train all the way to the bank draggin those too stunned and ignorant but very well trained to pay his nut anyways. they had no where eles to turn please he built his cult on lies and slander and gossip at the cost of his brothers in christ who he loved and worked for his ENTIRE LIFE. he was a MAJOR player in twi and loved every minute ofthe lifestyle of excess and worship it broughthim UNtill twi played their final ace and said he was not good enough . hahaha yeah that is right he loves you even more believe what ya want, it couldnt be he had to much detailed information to blackmail or be called testify agaisnt LCM could it? hmm oh no one has thought of that? they are all just loving leaders of Gods word with no personal agenda or strife or envy or evil between them. couldnt be they are both laughing all the way to the bank? or could it? call me paranoid all you want or even bitter, but one thing you cant call me anymore is ignorant of the deciet and evilness the top leaders in twi are capable of and John Lynn and his crew is in the gang with five stars still hanging and true to the brotherhood till death of that fact I have no doubt. one more thing I think the fact twi never addressed the sex doctrines is because they honestly believed what they were doing was right,but never had any bible to back it up they kept silent on the subject. it just galls me to no end that ces will scream error out of one corner of their mouth to please the people with their white washed talk, yet continue on doing what they want regarding sex outside of marriage . to me the latter is far more damaging and worse on a soul who wants to believe in their leadership. in fact it is crushing.

yes it isnt everyone I am not corpse , I wouldnt have a chance to post if it was everyone. I notice it mostly in flare ups over the off shoots or doctrines . when the little people get out of hand they tend come to lead us back to reality and the flock will fall in line . watch you will see it . but galen you do not get into to many heated discussions cause um your a nice guy and all. try be a little less diplomatic and agreeing with the status quo here and you may recognize the idea more.

that is what my sister experience she forgot how to say words she knew well (they were in her mind but she was unable to say them) she had a serious of mini strokes. yes by all means see a doctor just so you wont get to frightened and over think it if nothing eles.

I know what they said and the letters said sexual issues the one CES generated at the time and John Lynn apologized in and asked everyone to support CES in their decision to suspend him. I do not need to know how many woman or men or the name of who eles was involved that is what I mean by details STEVE! just calling it the way I see it . Raf. your right I do see what your saying and I guess your right I sound like a bitter person full of judgement when I speak of the CES problems concerning sexual and divorce when more important may be some of the doctrines and practices they hold. thanks.

Jal divorce was not the issue he was suspended from RAF. far from it they had been divorced for years at that point ! it was sexual crap concerning someone eles or several I do not know the details. and they did keep it hush hush till he was confronted. He was single at the time and had been divorced for years. you want to see heads roll metion JOHN S. the "well respected" lol divorce and the fact he also has admited to adultry while involved in twi! hey Im not sitting in judgement but they sure are the pot calling the kettle black over there. true enough we all have sin some of us just deny it more than others. haha being in a cult has nothing what so ever to do with sin or even right or wrong it is about power control and having someone eles stick up for ya and save ya other than the Lord Jesus Christ. I think the divorce is key to ex twi folks like me more than the PP or the other things they believe because that to me was the base line of his JUDGEMENT of the way international adultery and sexual misconduct was his rally call and then blam a few later as the money is rolling in with their kinder and gentler program of partners it was revealed . .... me off. not because they did it but because of their platform and self righteousness when LCM did. John Lynn was one of LCM best friends Raf maybe you do not know that and Don fired his butt. it was polictical Raf and personal .

ya know what my kid lost a very expensive cell phone a couple of months ago and I had to spend a couple of hundred dollars to replace it and we fought for three weeks . as I was reading this she put the lost cell on my desk . IM still paying off the one I had to buy to replace it . so I was reading your post the quote thing and got confused and deleted whatever. confusion reigns love ya man .

double post

why is this bothering me? I claim not to give a crap but I do . CES is caught up in what is is and it is a off shoot of the way international. Steve your killing me , and that is why im just ill now your so right they have no clue , I sometimes wish to God I didnt either.. you know? at least in a cult they love ya man. out here with nothing but the truth as I see it I feel like a fish out of water gasping for water but knowing the pond is full of poison . let me tell ya Raf it is alot more comfy where you sit , I didnt chose this I would never. God is bigger than CES. I know you Raf and you do look for the truth, the problem is you do not get so involved to see or feel it in CES and may never realize or it may not be your time . I went back to TWi, after a decade , and I do not know why but I was suppose to learn and do something and did. Raf I make no judgement of you. CES I do. but I honesty wish I didnt have to .

yes old twi got folks born again and saved many from a horrible life. so they think . I read God gives the increase . it is a club like all clubs with a mission and I give them no special kudos for it. I do believe they have written some great stuff , I have some of it . I do believe they need people to pay their tutition and mission in life as well... they people please who they can . I have issues with their Personal prophecy stuff and I saw many use the same IM holier than thou stuff I saw in the way, a good chuck of CES is way corps... so it falls to reason it would be so.

I do not think YOU sugar coat CES does. really I do not. but I think like everyone you believe what you know as truth .. and feel strongly about your opinion on it. so do I Raf. I think they sugar coat things I KNOW they are good at it and the only information you have is what you have from them . we have different eyes Raf. I see it differently it doesnt mean Im wrong or that your wrong it means you have not seen what I have yet. I get hurt in these disscussion because I know the pain you may face some day brother of mine truth hurts more than joining up let me say that. I paid more dearly in CES than Twi because when I believed in the group I was unable to see it I went with both eyes open to CES. I wanted to be part of CES I am a cult head . But God showed me alot Raf. and I had to see. it is a humbling process to realize what a cult is. it takes awhile if ever bro.

That isnt judgement that is my opinion . so answer the question Raf instead of this little quip and snip game . what am I afraid of what am I paranoid of ? hmm? you wear me down and I will stop posting to avoid your game that doesnt make me paranoid or wrong just tired of the games your playing with me. why is CES that important to you you have to get on me because I see things alot differently or are you taking this personaly because CES means alot to you ? Why ?

stop with the little quips to shut me up Raf. you said I was the only one using personal attacks . what was that making you a liar ? why are you making this out to be about me? what is your motive?

Steve That is why I think CES is a stronger Cult than TWI in and of itself. they have got years of practice of self righteous pompous mission for God on top of twi and frankly NO dream of anything better to do!!! haha

what is this Raf? you know Raf I do not want to fight you , on it for two reason one you enjoy it where as I do not , two you have built up your own little audience and it outnumbers me in voice and frankly giving a solid crap.

Raf. Are you the judgement seat now? calling me names and accusing me of being paranoid? what am I afraid of exactly? I speak the truth and I ask you you prove different. oh just do what you do and spend your time as king of internet posting for kicks. whatever . this is not fun for me as it is for you. if you ever recover from the cult you may find out just why . but untill then continue on with your know it all, arrogant, judgemental , I have friends on the internet and fellowship with CES mission .

no not ban people from the net they can not do that that is what twi tried and failed . and yes I do believe they circle the wagons in their defense and call on all the tough and rough ones to make it stop and I also think they will succeed on grease spot if that will help your discomfort . you for one and others. loyal to the bone and willing to fight for it? not me I got better things to do than prove a cult is a cult to those who live and breath for it . and do not start with the typical personal attacks that shuts them up quick where ya learn that big boy? huh? yeah . get real . the reason they do not like the internet (read his interview on Pats site about how he feels about it !) is because they are NOT able to get the gut wretching personal crap they use against people to shut them up. oh they got connections and they know people the best remember ? you got that right the hard core cult heads KNOW how to play to win and they will ! still making money off it too ! praise God!

I wont fight them, an entire web site has been generated about the issues some have had with CES. they have plenty of support on grease spot , high rollers too and if not involved with CES directly in friendship and family or some other small cult alliance. not to metion the really serious ones who are in it who have never been in twi now they are more than loyal lol ! Raf. you know my opinion about this is you didnt have enough dealings with twi to see how this stuff played out in life and now your like so many were in twi for years, but in CES. Just enjoying your time and not seeing any real problems for yourself, just kind of enjoying them without getting too involved and you know defending them when you feel you should because they are important to you as a christian and you enjoy talking to them oh yeah baby they got charm for making friends and influencing people , we all did once. then some got a little deeper. Raf it is a cult. and CES is worse than Twi in many many areas. but I am not wasting my time on the whys and debate anymore I will leave all that filthy work to you, CES, and maybe Steve and jeff . I found out in twi how it works and I will admit it all came to reality while involved in CES . you may not be able to see it I know I doubted the crap in twi for years. when we are blind we can not see ya know. I know the road your on bro. and as sorry as I am to watch it I know I can do nothing for you to convince you other wise. I never felt it my job to get people out of a cult any more than I feel it is my job to defend one .

who are they kidding ? they are sending out e-mails setting up those who will post and back him up here. you know how you have to circle the wagons when attacked and all . this is so lol . I have an honest question how many are AFRAID to post NOW??? oooo bad leader boy on the scene better wait and see who takes his side and hear the whole story with the numbers a winning! he might pull out some of those heavy duty bible verses where God is involved and dam you or something and we are ALL AFRAID OF THAT! lololololol safety in numbers guys here they come !! or he will just come and state how much he really loves us and his heart depends on the mood swing and who has ears to hear.

nice spin Raf. it was decided he would be punished in such a way . sugar coat it anyway you like Raf to keep the followers calm and ignorant and believing in the group, they sure as hell did and you clearly bought it hook line and sinker. obviously some thought something needed to be done about what he did or it would not have come down to that... it was a smoke screen to cover him and make CES look like of course they are not about just what John lynn said and does when he was busted. John wrote a letter saying he would agree with their decision . Im sure it was a rough ride seeing how he was the one who founded CES and had played the major force up until then, including bringing John S. and Mark G. on the payroll. They take care of their own. what a game.

he he steve good luck . been there . love it . now they cant very well say the internet if off limits can they like twi did. this is an attack im sure , you know , but funny how it was started by one in their own rank and files.

Waterbuffalo how you described your family is how most families interact . Some give the appearance of stepford but in reality have much serious issues within the denial . families are the mystery of God . the fact your family is strong enough to be honest and have discord speaks very loudy just how healthy and interactive it is!!!!!! that is how love is in real life , it can get ugly and messy and complicated and it is often misunderstood by those most highly invested in it!!! your family sounds like something to celebrate instead of being ashamed of to me. we fight heavy for the things we love do we not? the other choice is indifference and denial and just plain not giving a thought to how others play out in our life! Family can be defined in many many different ways waterbuffalo but the bottom line is engagement with one another with oftentimes intense emtional investment! it is what makes life fun and worthwhile !

CES began in the 80's and it is now 2004 it has changed its focus to meet the need of the people ha . yes Tom nearly twenty years .