mj412

do not try to turn this into a spit spat of revenge cool water take a chill pill or go eat something and get off me for a change. you are not putting any guilt or whatever your trying to do on me . Peoiple make their own choices in life all I can do is love them. Most everyone I knew in twi has left by now, and we still love and get together once in awhile and I have very dear friends who still fellowship with twi. The Lord loves us each very much.

ya know I think I got to the point I didnt care and was willing to tell them that. After being marked and going back to fellowship I could see people being used and abused so clearly and even tho I remebered also at one time being as excited about the carnival they offered for a price , I now saw the toll and fear it put in people. People I knew and loved for years. I had to get to the point I told them it was not something I wanted to be or do or go along with anymore just because I had better things to do like shampoo my hair . but it was not until I witness those I knew where good people and watched them compromise and suffer for twi did I wake up and say not me not now , not ever again. It was not hate that motivated me to leave it was the very love of God and His children .

I was single with children in twi I had to work full time I wanted a good life for us,I had family in the area that were not involved in twi that cared about us I had to be acountable to myself and God and my family. I saw families go nuts for the organization. the only reason I say I couldnt or rather didnt is because I had a drive to be a sucess in life and knew how to live I went to college while in twi, with small children and worked. MY children were involved in activities my daughter was a dancer my children had many friends in the neighborhood. the fellowship coordinator thought every child was possessed but hers so she aliented her kids, of course she could play with mine but mom couldnt handle any outside of twi conversation with people. and they were in poverty and compromised and their chidlren suffered. I think twi drove them to the point they got paranoid of anything that was not connected to twi it must be an evil world thing out to get ya ! simple decisions such as whether to take your child to the doctor had to involve several phone calls, to other believers(no I was not on that list thank God) Depressed from the isolation and unable to function with the confines that twi dictated. such as not working at night to be able to go to classes and taking alot of time off to travel to other areas to attend classes. come on, how does one live in a community when they think the community is out to kill steal and destroy? so they cloned up and lived in misery with one another always with one eye out to see if your not right , never able to be real and say gee I got a problem I feel lonely or sad or frustrated cause you would be labeled as unbelieving... no one to be real with at all. I watched it for a few years, I even felt sad at times to see beautiful people live below normal standards for welfare , orlike they were on house arrest or parole. thinking they were living in Gods BEST world with those who cared . People were not alowed to care about one another because if you had one to many issues in life at any time you could be thrown out for it so stay quiet and lie and trust no one. Many had no blood family near and had moved for twi to areas they didnt want to be in and where stuck. I watched people go insane I really did. One girl was in the hospital for depression after a baby but she was not an improtant believers they said she never asked permission to seek treatment she and her family knew it was right for her. and it was like well yeah of course she was like that because she was only a PFAL grad. she got better is still my friend today! she was never asked to leave twi. But those who had all the answer from within lived in hell on earth they really did never sought help or kept it very silent if they did . and they were tossed out as worthless when finaly the real world , school for the kids landlords , bills , and generaly unable to function demanded they account to life. twi told them they had to many problems in life, problems they got by being as devoted and sincere and loyal to twi itself. I saw folks so dependent on twi they would NOT know how to put their pants on one leg at a time unless they made a pohone call to see if it was ok... that was insane but they thought they were fine and in Gods will. how do they recover? the only way is to get thrown out and survive and seek help from professionals who want you to be healthy. it is the only way to get you life back . I saw those the most caught up and dedicated and willing to please suffer the most, and they where often asked to leave twi. those like me who just lived life and Loved God and took some classes when we could and stayed connected to the real world did not get harrassed by twi or asked to comply with the lifestyle of the cult. twi attracted those within its ranks who were co-dependent and unable to function in the real world it made a haven for them to live in their own fantastic world of one another say so. many where insane and they stayed hidden in that isolated world for years.

I ignored idiots , I ignored foolish people I ignored peole trashing their families and their life for twi . cant stop them they had a mission from God! seriously I watched folks damage themselves for twi alot but I couldnt stop them I tried to talk to my friends but they felt it was what God" had them do. and it is their life. do not twist that to say I ignored child molestations cool waters. thank you for posting that. I said that in response to your reply about leaders ignoring and they did they didnt care about anyone but their own agenda at the time . Many ill came to twi, and it did get to a point where the movement of the word had to come before helping those who had such troubles. it was the pfal class they sold not a protective agency against the wiles of the world. if people were so sick they could not protect or take care of their own families, because twi came first(which I saw alot ) who has the problem? who can stop that type of thinking? and naturally when these families fell apart and bad things happened they got hurt. but try to stop some of those people that lived in proverty to attend another class or or left their kids alot to please the leaders. it was impossible if they thought they had a mission from God. so i did ignore them . it was better than joining in and now having to sing sad songs about how I was also used and abused by trusting the wring people or making huge gaping wrong choices in life.

Is it twi ordered parents to now beat your children or more like troubled stupid ignorant people got involved in twi with many personal problems and in sick relationships and poor backgrounds knocked on the leaders door and said this is my life in the gutter please fix it but I do not really know or want to know what the bible says much less apply it to my own personal life? ? which way was it ? and if they made enough friends and buddies and knocked long enough and hard enough they also got to be the leader !!! haha that is how twi was.

still nothing cool waters just accusations and name calling with yelling and taking the lords name in vain? prove what you accuse . I do not discount what you endured. I read it all the time and realize some of you will never get to the point you realize why or how it happened other than saying tomy told me to jump off a bridge so I did and now im drowning because of him. and half the time tommy never even told you to jump off the bridge anyway you decided to do it and then blamed tommy for it ! I find that laughable.

no abby I never said twi was in the business of helping I never even thought it. they claimed to be a bible reasearch ministry the only "help" they offered was what they thought the bible said to do.. now if you have private conversation and listen to the advice of someone you went to that was different.. it was chapter and verse please remember? plenty of people went to leadership about another who made them feel angry or upset, I think they tried to fix very troubled people and relationships but they had no skill or education and it played out to be one mess after another.

do you live to make up lies cool Water? your false accusations are blaring again. prove what you say about somone being a silent witness or is just what you think again . hahaha and yes I do laugh alot at you and your hands on the big hips and statement of what ever you think as the truth ahhahahahehe who believes you? hmm? you buddies that need nothing other than your say so? oh it has to be right coolwater thinks it!!!! hahahahahahalololol what fools believe that kind of thinking? that is what I laugh at. you so entrenched in illness and lying and power mongering you can not see it is exactly how those who fell victim in twi got fooled . not me tho so sorry it make you FEEl angry. but you have plenty on this board who will fall in line . no doubt. the fact I am not a silent witness really ....es you guys off! so make up stories about what you think try to damage a person character get rid of them any way you know how because cool and her gang thinks it is the right thing to do. hahah

Why do you twist what I say? do you need to? I saw people compromising every single area of their life in twi. quote me where I said it was the willingness of any children to be abused . you cant . you just make acccusations and say I said what I never did which would be false accusations . A parent is responsible for the safety of their children not twi that is the point everyone seems to disagree with. I saw people compromise their families and self in every area of life , I have said that from post one on this thread. the problem is when you ask people to be accountable for their own behaviours and choices of who to seek consel from and obey by choice then blame them when your life goes sour. Chasten they son while there is hope and let not thy soul spare for his crying. proverbs 19:18 IN proverbs it says He that spareth his rod hateth his son but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. 13:24 also withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod he shall not die. 23:13 I wrote those to answer your question : it also says to not provoke your children to wrath but bring them up in the nurture and admonittion of the Lord. in Ephesians 6:4 and to not provoke your children to anger lest they be discouraged in collossians 3:21 also consider a parents role in a family: But if any provide not for his own, and specialy for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith and is worse than an infidel. 1 timothy 5:8 Like as a father pitieth his children so theLord pitieth them that fear him. Palsm 103:13 One more Behold the third time I am ready to come to you and I will not be burdensome to you: for I seek not yours but you: FOR THE CHILDREN OUGHT NOT TO LAY UP FOR THE PARENTS, BUT THE PARENTS FOR THE CHILDREN. II corintians 12:14 A great deal is written about how God thinks parents should be towards their children.

do not flatter yourself Rascal I white wash nothing , nor do I accuse falsely . as far as my character haha I could care less what you think of my character , grease spot is an internet forum where anyone can say what they want to say about who ever. You and cool water I believe lessen the victims by making up stuff and adding to what actualy did happen and by personaly attacking who ever you feel like . it is the reason few with any integrity or real knowledge just do not post anymore .. it is the gossip group of GS. what you think and pt and private e-mail with the tag team effort of getting rid of those who you decide do not belong that stinks of twi and the abuse that happened.

sure coolwaters I ignore you alot. I admit it!! IM guilty . lol shame on me or good for me is the question. What admission are you taliking about? I said no to your question about whether I would use paragraphs or spellcheck. haha about joining the ranks I admit to being one of the folks you decide you do not like and you can now make up sorrid storys and false accusations about.. make up all the sensational fables you like say what you need to say to get whatever attention you need . it is pathetic cool waters and few actualy could care less about your opinion about people .

That is right abbby the focus was not helping people people wee considered animals or pets like cats less than was my entire point. I wass marked went back went to off shoot still talk to folks in the way and the off shoots many have gone and gone . no they didnt "bleed me dry" in fact being marked help me realize what my focus was and what it should have been all along . we agree more than disagree. I never got bitter abby because of my deliverence and Im the one who is not angry or bitter I forgive myself and others as I said in a post decades ago. why not? it was just a group of bible study people out of control. lol I never fought for the way nor did they "fight for me I did make some life long friends and find an interest in bible study that has lasted many years tho. I find life far to interesting and exciting following the Lord Jesus christ to get stuck with those who need one another to ok their very own choices in life. condem people haha if your talking about the posters on grease spot haha it is the internet full of lonely people looking for a friend do I do not condem them I pity and frankly consider the source.

to answer your question cool water , no. and yes we all know your bold face accusations of great abuse with no proof other than what you think . lol no surprise there haha should I join the club of those who do not make you happy and you can now tell tall tales about? ok. no skin off my teeth .

I like ignore bettter than condone and harbored sex offenders much better! ignore is fine. we all ignored much in twi. haha I know I did .

Why did anyone need anyone eles approval for leaving bruises etc? hmm? it sounds like they said what you wanted to hear to me . If you wanted to leave your husband why didnt you? you needed their approval? come on plenty got divorced in twi for much less . it was your problem abby and you sought answers you wanted to hear and got them that was also common in the way to many problems with to many intense deep mental and family problems knocking on the door of the leaders!!! the focus was teaching the word not scraping all the dead cats off the side of the road you cant do much to help people when they want you to fix their life in gerneral . God is the solution in life. prayer would have been nice tho.

that is right Ex many sick where drawn into twi, they gave people hope and for some the family they never had in childhood. Jesus never turned the ill away He healed them.. wise as serpents gentle as doves we are still talking humans I truly think some put others on pedestals so high they forgot that fact hence the absent Christ ideal . One of the biggest errors was it got too large to manage personal issues more common and serious while people began to compete for positions just as the disciples did when Jesus walked the earth. example the above posts from your dear friend. Im not in a war cool waters you reveal yourself plainly and clearly. lol god didnt allow anything bad to happen people sinned and consequences are a part of sin. I thank God for the Bible I do know it helps stop sin a great deal in ones life hence less truama and pain... and it only gets better in the kingdom.

it does say beat a child doesnt it ?I forgot. it also says a great deal about not discouraging your child and to love them and to put off anger... again anyone can take any bible verses and use them anyway they like . do not accuse me of your problems ms. cool waters , the fact is I did witness an extraordinary amount of parents compromise their children in the way because twi came first in their life before anything including the safety and protection of their families.. at their own hands not another and we are talking about people trusting people in twi and impressing others with who ya know big deal in the way and you still do it lol haha who cares who you talked to? I sure do not doesnt impress me a bit! exactly what Im saying what twi taught and what people DID in real life was a far expanse of difference to be sure. I agree completely! Your looking to blame again I say it was those directly compromising to blame not neccesarily what TWI taught as truth!

I think twi heard the stories and problems from people constantly and without end . What was done about it? Well that is what the forum greasespot is about. The fact that individuals would look to twi leaders for their guidance and life style and direction and then be shocked at what they got for answers is of no surprise to me. haha blind leading the blind for the most part.

the bible says Jesus didnt trust any man he knew what was in them . the plain fact is vpw will live in the kingdom Rascal he was born again. what type and who he pleased or didnt is of no concern for me that is Jesus Christ Job and he will melt all the justice needed at the bema! yeah hoo!

the thing with the spoon , well I consider the times about that as well. Suffice to say times have changed. The day he was brought up as a child it was much more accepted to discipline a child in ways that today would seem illegal. agencys were not in force and the laws have changed alot. I was slapped by my fourth grade teacher for dropping my pencil during a test and she used to pull the boys by their ears to the floor till they listened. she was a teacher in the public school system. well respected by many. it all depends also how and when you used this spoon thing in a sense you can look at it like they tried to instruct parents on how to teach their children without being brutal... like the earlier thread said to get their attention etc. the bible does ok discipline and chstisment.. not that beating a child was ok and I honestly never somone beat a child with a spoon not to say they didnt people are jerks and most go with what they learned as a child when they become parents. spanking is not abuse even today nor is disciplining your child . beating a child is different. if a person felt strongly that they could not use a spoon and could manage other ways to help a child grow up Im sure it was not like now you slap your kid with the spoon because God said to!!! or eles. maybe get your children under control that I understand and if you just can not then they should not be in that environment at that point.. again a parents choice. Ex yes it is true of most who use others can be pillars of the community and it often disgused a great many of those who want to hurt another. we have had three childrens doctors arrested in my city convicted in the past two years!! now that is terrible a person who a parent takes their baby to get well from ends up being molested! it is a nasty world!

A couple more for ya Rascal. Romans 11:29 For God;s gifts and HIS call are IRREVOCABLE! translated gods gifts and Gods call are under full warranty-never canceled never rescinded!!!!!! Salvation is a gift. it is a new birth(salvation means born again or new birth) birth is a permanent thing no one can climb back into a womb and say IM not born and it is the same with being born again! cool right! a one time thing that can not be undone! adoption is another term used for salvation In Roman law a naturally born child could be disowned but not an adopted child! so in writing to the Romans people, which is who Galations is written to God used the word adoption so they would understand the salvation was permanent!!!! Another beauty is Ephesians 1:13,14 13) And you also were included in christ when you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation. Having believed you were MARKED in him with a seal, then promised holy spirit. here it is Rascal !!!!1 the big one 14) which is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance.!!!!!!!! sealed means it can not leak out !!!!!and that seal is a garuntee of eternal life your inheritance with the Lord!!!!

I can be decieved every day of my life Ex. But that has nothing to do with making the active choice to hit my kid or allow another to do so. that is a choice in life each individual must make , so what I hear you saying is well jo jo told me it was ok so I did it.. come on if jo jo told you to jump off a bridge would you do it? twi never taught abuse was ok or molestation was ok. if you chose to listen to idiots can you really blame the idots? who is the idot exactly ? ya know? not having the same shoes? well like Mr. T says I do pity the fools ... we all must answer to the Lord for what we have done clearly. My point is some here like to blame others for what they themself decided to do .. you want pity sure here is some. pity never helped me grow strong ,faith in Christ did tho, and the ability to recognize my own errors and learn to trust HIM who would never hurt you. After I was marked I still went to twi things I still would but i think I really ....ed one of them off so they have not called lately.. lol the off shoots well I was still thinking these folks believe like I do you know like mind and all so I did search for "fellowship" then when I heard and witness behaviours that were not the same as I would call it I left sadly to be true to my self. I learned that is where any type of peace come from in life to be true to what I know is right for me.. I do not blame anyone I never did . including myself for mistakes made in life. I will testify this about your point Ex. it is very difficult to heed the Lords Call for your life when you desire something altogether different and have convinced yourself your right because of your friends or other pressures in life. But is what we are to do. Jesus had a difficult time with people as well people he thought he could trust and they disappointed him several times... but he still listened to His Father God Almighty and sought truth from the scripture and prayer.

Galations 2:15 We.. know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus christ. Would that be the verse Rascal ? which bible verse tells you anyone who is born again and confesses Jesus is Lord which I heard vpw say on many occasion myself says he can lose it because he had works in the flesh ? no excuses claim the scripture teach me something please.

Well if you insist on using the bible scripture as your Standard Rascal how bout Romans 3:23 that states For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"? or Romans3 10-12 There is no one righteous not even one there is no one who understands no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless there is no one who does good not even one. Matthew 16:27 States a person reward will be according to what he has done. 1 corintians 3 12-15 talks about the foundaton and the work will be shown for what it is, revealed with fireand test the quality of EACH mans work. If it survives he will recieve a reward 15) if it is burned he will suffer loss. it means what he/she has done that failed the test not the person him/her self. 2 corinthians 5:10 for we all appear before the judgement seat of Christ that each one may recieve what is due him for the things done while in the body whether good or bad. so folks in the body of christ can do bad things and still belong to God and have eternal life. it will be Christ who judges what we did on earth while born again and under His Lordship .

ok a day care going out of business in a very untimely manner is a little different than thinking being abused is ok or slapping your children with a weapon I think. it was not my choice it was theirs to leave the building unsupervised, what happened was is the owner decided and told the workers she was unable to pay them early in the day so they walked out on the job after telephoning the police.. I had zero say so in the manner and I was angry. A person who left their kids so much (babies even) to attend twi classes and function who compromised the financial securty of the family to support twi, and allowing your children or beating your children is abuse by a choice from the parents. Twi encouraged what they offered of course they did it was in a money making business and put"God first" . but it was always the parents choice how how to place their children in their life.. I do not think most people in the way condoned child abuse did i see child abuse yep plenty of cult hungry idots willing to do anything to belong. I saw many good parents and fine people as well . I think the fact an individual goes to a group such as what twi offered for family consel or advice speaks on the fact of how lost many where in twi, and co-dependent looking for answers in the wrong place. I never asked twi for advice I did have friends I spoke to clergy adn I still consdier them friends but I was adult enough to realize my own responsibility to self and my family . many many in twi were not . that is why many were forced to leave because they would not cope with the exspectations twi had for their life. it may be for the best if personal problems were at a point you could not manage your life without their say so. Leaders in twi today still compromise their life I think they still do things that damage their life and it still makes it more difficult for them to compete in todays world but I have spoke to enough of them and they truly believe it is for Gods glory no matter the cost. who am I to say any different for their life? it is their life. as is yours.