mj412

When I forgive it is not so much about the one who hurt me as it is about me feeling less hurt. When I forgive it helps me far more than the ones Im forgiving. When I hurt another I feel guilty and I think I should ask for forgivness when I realize I am wrong. I think in the case of twi, few take all the wrongs done personaly ya know like it was because of what they as a certain person performed that another was hurt.. because it was and is a "group think " ideal that snow balled into many getting hurt. the ideal relationships give and take forgivness and floursih into a deep intimate love that is positive for both. forgivness is necesary to survive loving anyone on earth. When my teen son once complained about my own shortcoming in life I asked him to to remember I forgave him when he barfed on me for a year . such is true love. but sometimes forgivnes is not about everyone involved in the hurt. sometimes people do not realize you have been hurt, or sadly do not care if you been hurt. do I forgive then ? yes. I do. for me to realize the Saviour was murdered by those He gave His life for it feels like a very easy burden to do so . but mostly because I gain wisdom within my spirit and energy and strength to endure life as it is for everyone. I do not all the negative vibes in my soul everyday that being angry brings life. every single person has felt the sting of betrayal , of being lied to of being used or being wronged in some manner. forgivness is given as a remedy because it helps us remain healthy and happy . Wisdom is gained when we fall into trouble when relationships struggle or we get hurt. wisdom is a fantastic gain in life , but to truly enjoy this gift I have learned I must forgive .

oh man Im so sorry for you!! it may not be "bed bugs". it may be scabies which need six to twelve weeks to hatch on the skin. they live under the skin and can not be seen untill they hatch and the itching and sores begin. you can not see this mite with the naked eye. go to the dr. get an ointment that kills it on your skin or it may not get better and your wife may be waiting a few weeks to hatch. oh my! I know they hurt they are common in nursing homes and group homes anywhere people live close together. if it is bed nugs how do they live? on the bed? eeeewww

I believe what the bible says and that is jesus christ must be accepted as Lord to have eternal life. how or when that happens is between God and His people . I do not think all will live forever I think some people just die because they do not chose "the program". It is Gods will all men be saved it is written so the process is as huge as God is . I think it is a choice and as with any choice some will not chose the will or manner to access the promise of life eternal. They may not " miss out" on anything at all by their own reasoning ya know? do you believe all will somehow someway or in some manner end up in the Kingdom regardless of how or what they may think of Jesus christ? I do not think it is about being expendable it is more about choice as I wrote in the post you cut from . the bible clearly states Gods will is ALL men to be saved to the uttermost. I think it takes cooperation and choosing by each individual to make Jesus Lord in their Life and as with any honest choice the flip may not have all the same rewards . God does not "chose" who will live or die each person decides for His own self in life . I think Kit is right if God knows us before the foundation of this earth was created I would agree he can get the job done, but again it takes cooperation from His children to reach His will for their life. He doesnt force compliance on anyone that would be the action hurtful enemy , not a loving father of mankind

How about spirit and Truth Fellowship International? ( CES) If anyone can be accussed of "stealing members" it has to be them. they began their mission in 87 with a big deal of aggravation I remember Mrs. Weirwille speaking about Mark and John and John at the rock of ages like they were a joke. they have to get some credit for that. right?

It is about owning your life . If we fail to teach our children how to work they own nothing. they stay at the mercy of what the other guys dictate they must do or not do. they do not grow up into adults or leaders . take ownership for your own LIFE!!!! just do it!! now Im not saying own a home IM saying own who you are what YOU do and how you answer to the world for who you are!!! and this involves pride in knowing it belongs to you own self, my money, my home, my family, yes! my responsibilities to help others with me! these ideals is what gives life its great kick and JOY and pure zeal for living!!! otherwise it may be about another word that is popular today. entitlement. some think because they got pregnate with a child they are now entitled to have everyone eles pay for their choice... some think it should be an automatic thing to have food put on the table at supper time because they are alive they must be fed so they are entitled to eat and live. like a pet cat . they do not contribrute to their life they have no real life other than one of a child or pet. how very very sad for them. Life should be riot of adventures and purpose. I do not think we are entitled God does not think so and dare I say most of America is changing the idea we are all entitled to live in amanner we chose without effort just because we are alive . The fact is those who live well have worked a great deal and long for their materials and possessions. If you want to compete with all the world has to offer for stuff then compete it does not fall from the sky. For those that still think it may ,with rich parents still giving them a free ride. that is fine it truly is. It is when they work with the rest of us who have to work to eat they find a new way of living . I did something well today , I got paid for it , I feel good about being a part of something in the world. I am needed I am good at what Ido I am rewarded . I can now dream of bigger and better things for my life. work is what makes life GOOD and exciting and we belong to a community and a world we make a difference!!!!! Aperson has to escape from the family world and its shell to appreciate their own self and what they can own in life , this takes time and some kids need to learn the hard way that the real world of grown ups doesnt hand it to ya , we all work together for it! big lesson in life.

Dan I believe so. that is why I love people so much today and forever ! just people . it is so grand .

yet the proof is clear for each individual . to make a simple statement complex is no use. Thomas got his proof easy enough when He asked the redeemer of mankind for it. I question nearly every bit of my life and day or moments , it is not as if anything is set in stone forever . The book itself states the bible can not contain all the storys and amazing happenings they shared with Jesus , and it also says we can never know God and His ways are much higher than ours . I am not saying God is simple or even that the bible is simple yet rather the story of redemption and the plan of Salvation is simple . So song you write you think as Thomas did when he stated he doubted the testimony of his brothers when they spoke of Jesus being raised from the dead? well given the crew he was working with and the rather critical depressing days after his murder, who did not? the two that walked in the garden doubted it was him till he was gone, Mary doubted he was alive till He told her. It was not about the fact He was the Saviour of mankind but the fact He died and was raised from the dead that tripped them out !! and it would have me as well if any of my friends had been arrested crucified and buried and then three days later Im told me he was alive and well and talking with us the first thing i would say is clearly yeah sure not untill I see him for myself and make darn sure it is him will I believe that!

I know of one such described couple. the short answer they did it to grow in Jesus christ and in the trusting of HIM. they lost very nice jobs by going out on the program, one was able to return, the other was not. their children do not get what they are doing and they do not fellowhsip with the way. I listened for a long time and she seemed to be struggling and disappointed yet somhow with a sly grin of IM so much more worthy of gods love than you now! it is all an attitude of self righteousness and power based games of who loves God more and of course will be honored by HIM more for it. I do not believe a minute of the program or their pompous self righteous attitude of self sacrafice, Jesus christ did enough for me in my life I do not need to compete for the better crown He bought with the blood of HIS very LIFE for me.

Jesus will be our King for a thousand years not forever . no foul if you do not chose but the bible says every knee wil bow and chose . sooner or later. the answer to why some and not others while on earth is clearly to honor the choice and how would we have choice if we did not know the options? the colors of the leaves is an ok answer and it would fit in the complex areana of how God calls some 30 or 60 or 100 % . but to be called is to be called before the foundation. I read Gods will is all men be saved from death so it isnt like we are dealing with an enemy of sides of good and bad or better and best. it is simply a choice. or eles they will burn and die and will not enter into the kingdom with Christ. Sin was adams doing he disobeyed God. very simple one mans error and one mans salvation. The error was considered sin and the result of that error was satan was invited in to our minds and thoughts. the blood issue with sin is another complex subject as is cain and abel etc. and the marriage of other people etc, gets incorporated. but simply put adam is the father of mankind and he allowed his thoughts to disobey God and hence all will "follow" into the trouble it made for mankind. Unless we seek a wiser spirit to "save" us from those same thoughts ie forgivness and guidance etc. Jesus christ. God as not a respecter is one idea but He always has been a respecter of conditions and situations and has melt justice as God of people would and should. why eles have a God? if two people with the exact life made the same choice one does not have a greater chance of making it to the kingdom than the other. He doesnt pick and chose . All will have the choice at some point if they are called. if a person is not called not he has no desire or nature to work in the spiritual life realm. he just lives and dies as a man . no one gets hurt.

voices have to be checked as well. many of the serial killers also heard the voice of god commanding them to do horrid crimes. mental illness can cause voices to apear as if an inner message is dictating behaviours . some have claimed to be heeding for God and hundreds have been killed ath their hand. Geo did you lose your ears again?

uncle hairy I agree . it seems rather a complex formula for understanding .

Well Im currently asking for more money myself.

What a wonderful post skylit! I loved every word you wrote. the part about hearing it better down the road is so important. We grow up into understanding God and His will for our life. I can not tell a two year old how to drive a car across the state or how to do complex math problems much less why we should . this is been my life with christ learning the hard way I think after I am in trouble and desperate I realize He did try to tell me and I couldnt hear it then, I was not able to understand , Ididnt trust I didnt believe it was possible for the blessing, or I had what I thought was a better idea that didnt work at all but continued anyway. He spoke in parables to his students as a teacher storys that taught in a way they will relate to and remember. like my life is the story I learn is now a parable of His wisdom through my life. I do question and doubt hopefully less as time goes on and He keeps loving me. I think He speaks in nature as well . He speaks in everything to me. Knowing what is written helps explain when I get confused about what it all may mean . As we grow up in life we come to a place we know ourself our limits our abilities how we will react or think we find peace in what life is, and when we are old and ready to die we realize much about the why of it all . I think it is the same with growing up to what christ sets as a standard for what God wants in our life.

here is my ideas on that : God has truly given all people a choice to worship Him or not. Adam chose to sin by disobeying God ,allowing sin to enter into his thoughts (mankind) . JC chose to obey God allowing eternal life to enter into his thoughts (mankind) . So in my estimation now we have a choice of life or death once again and it is up to each individual to chose . Because Jesus was exalted as a man new rules where put into place incorporating HIM as a KING and Leader and the ONE we are to listen to obey Gods will. With Adam he as a man had access to God we now need the second adam to have that smae access. Roman 10 and 9. God and His Son work together to lead mankind into the kingdom of eternal life. The sacrafice Jesus did for His mankind allowed HIM a huge promotion above all other men with many perks such as not having to live on the earth with the enemy . So he is building us a new kingdom with us as the focus and HIM as a king. why it isnt done I do not know. We still chose to obey or not to obey just as JC and Adam did the program has not changed. the fact God has designed some to be HIS before the foundation says He designed or created some to be HIS and others he did NOT . that is an interesting thing isnt it? Here is how I look at that, If we chose between the colors of black and yellow we need to realize the difference in the color right? I mean I can not chose yellow correctly if I do not know what a yellow color is nor can I appreciate the difference in color if not given a choice. and to have a choice I have to know and realize what each color may mean to me . such is the choice God gives us in choosing to accept His idea of making Jesus Christ LORD or not making HIM Lord. we have to know what life may be or mean or look like without having Jesus Christ as LORD< hence those who do not believe. a choice must know both sides of the choice to accept it readily and honestly. Jesus Offered a NEW KIngdom not this one this one is spent done already been given away to satan by Adam. So we now chose. So the answer is BOTH gave us a choice in how we can live both Adam and JC set up the situation to allow us each one to chose which way to go. The ball is in each individual court. on a quick side note.. I read the other day about those who never did chose or where unable to chose to make Jesus Christ LORD while alive on earth. They also will be at the bema and all will have the choice face to face with Jesus christ to accept HIM as their KING at that time. Some will chose some will not those that do not will be burned those that accept Jesus as LORD will be rewarded or punished by their deeds on earth whether good or bad and the justice will be met with the call of christ at that time. cool huh? At times I have noticed the situation to look rather bias and unfair but in reality God gives mankind many chances to live in a manner that is good and peaceful and safe with HIM but it always has been a personal choice from the individual.

that is the problem I saw with some in twi, the whole making what they thoughtthe bible (the word?) may have said bigger than loving one another. Jesus never said make yourself into intellectual giants with your ideas of what the bible may or may not mean, and it is ok to fight and strife over the definitions with power plays of who must be right or wrong . Jesus said To love one another. that was and is His commandment. Folks who know very little chapter and verse are just as loved and blessed by Jesus Christ in life. I think twi worshipped the bible at times and turned into it into a idol to be adorned as a who is who of the Im a real chrisitan and your not game. very religous . They could have loved you and your wife and baby and had a very nice memorial service to grieve your loss. Why did everything have to turn into the word and nothing but in Corithians it says if we have not love nothing eles really matters . I know alot of bible and I am still trying to learn but I do not think it matter to much in life other christians do not know so the conversation can not get into "what it really means" and Im glad I really do not think the bible is to be used as a bullet to hurt one another or to isolate groups into private sects which is how twi used the bible.

EX if you want to pt me I will answer your questions . this thread is about child abuse in twi.

Lyme diease of the brain? is that from a misquto (sp) bug or tick originaly? Many had ego problems and bravado issues in twi, they could handle anything as long as some one eles or thing eles (twi) told them what or how to do it ironic isnt it? and I suppose the answer to just why your son got worse was a attack from the devil for your parenting right? I truly believe lack of common sense breeds insanity .

unwanted mental illnes, family drama, bad backgrounds, evil people twi was a Zoo of what humanity is I cling to what is good in every area in my life. I could take this as a oppurtunity to sing Gods praise of mighty deliverence in my life and I think I will. Rascal we all did that to some point, until we had enough or it hit the nerve raw enough to get kicked out. I find no shame in life and the lessons I have learned. I do not blame others for being human any more than I will blame myself. Jesus Commandeed we love one another and to put God first. that is a simple formula for success in what ever we take in life. I look at twi as people and I love people some where abused more than others and often times those very same people handed abuse and bad advise or ill treatment to others. Each of us had to learn our life lesson and yes the fact we were young and maybe stupid about how this happens plays a factor on just how it got so out of control. the difference I see from you and I isI understood it was an organization that said it was a bible research group I understood humans hurt one another sometimes in fact often times and the larger the group the more this type of stuff can and does happen. many from dysfunction clung to twi like it was God, and it was not it was just people .

I read the accounts here that do not make logical sense to any one who loves themselves at all. If God is Love as was tuaght why would He ask anyone to hurt themself? He didnt people may have and that is who people obeyed . look at the nice houses many of the clergy lived in and the poverty many had does that not say alot? why was it that some hurt more than others? and over and over again? sometimes becvause they demanded advise and consel from the wrong people unable to help their own self or trust God for answers. Some had the ability to say to others your nuts and I refuse or just no in general I spent alot of time saying no while involved. some got angry I didnt care it came down to the bible for me if it ws a huge issue, God would never harm us ever and each had the spirit to walk within and be safe. I do not believe He (God)would ask a parent to leave a sick child to attend a twi function unless it was a good outcome but people would and did to please another person they esteemed or to get their own personal kicks. Saying no to those you trust is dfficult but if they really love you they would understand God first and family is more important than anything. and that is why many got thrown out because the life had gotten to the point they couldnt manage even simple tasks without going to leadership to tell them what to do . insane . sure it was a risk to say no you bet that is the reason many were thrown out or left.

my sis will often say to me "you think to much". twi taught people to look for devil spirit in everyone and thing in life is it no wonder all the joy was ripped away and people got paranoid and fearful. All the accusations of devil spirts folks couldnt breath without thinking it was an attack from the devil to kill them, that cant be healthy can it? people trusted the wrong people and they got hurt then people began to point fingers and seeing devils everywhere in everyone and thing it was out of control.

I trusted the wrong people as well. to this day I have a much larger degree of mistrust for those who claim to know whats best for me . I think that was a common outcome , when ya realize it was not genuine concern or care that came first and got hurt you may still think the world is out to get ya! they taught that for sure. But I also think many did care about others they just did not see a way out of the circle of people pleasing and wanted to grow in the twi tree more than others. what i try to do is trust really just take people at their word and be wise in my own choices in life and find the the strength to say no when I want or need to. I learned this by facing it , If I have a thought that somone may be thinking or planning something that may would hurt me instead of assuming evil I ask , it has ben a huge blessing from God to find out in experience that 90% of what you think is an evil plot is not and can be worked out in a very reasonable fashion. I also found the ability to take responsibility to make my own choices and own the outcome of them. folks lost their ability to chose for goodness while in twi, because twi became more important than God or their own self or the ones they loved.

I think people did stand up for what they thought was right , and it cost them alot . people listened to twi at a very high price thinking they were doing the right thing all along until they got thrown out or the price was just to much.

my friends still in are still my friends and the bottom line is we love one another, we discuss twi but it isnt the focus of our love or life. no one in my circle of my friends try to be a Saviour for the world with the feeble attempts of pointing finger and fault finding or blame, we know the Saviour His name Is Jesus christ and we pray to God to follow His example in life and in loving one another for all of eternity. and that is all you really need to know to have peace and happiness in life in my opinion.

Why are you asking me for approval cool waters? See a professional if you have deep set needs for approval from others you can not resolve it is not my job . I do not even know you. do what you want, most people do. It was the folks I loved that really where in the business to help others and thought they had a special secret in life they wanted to share, they opened their homes and they did alot of time and work for twi for free, when I saw how many hours they put in for the cause how much of their life got damaged but they were so convinced and strong and dedicated that I grew sad. but they where all thrown out or left and many are still my friends today yeah hoo! happiness is not so much about pleasure it is more about victory!

I do not control what others do with their life Cool waters.