mj412

thanks shelly that was good just one more question. you said imagine my friends new me as a steak eater and i turned veg. I hear you put Im a social person and I meet new people join new clubs and have new neighbors meet new family member all the time and they never Knew me as sober or drunk but they like me ( I think) what Im saying is that is the part I do not get about folks who say they drink for social reasons... that it helps them get along or every one knows them as a drinker... well if you have favorite bar and it is all about booze I suppose but life isnt like that and no one lives in such a small place they would only accept you as a drunk you know? it might be because you think that is the only way you can meet or be accepted but it isnt. I dress up and I look like a different person from my work clothes and It doesnt matter to me if Im in jeans and a tee or a suit I am still me, booze doesnt allow a person to be comfortable with themselves and then I think they forget that is is them people love without the alochol because they feel different sober. very sad. I also think drunk people hurt one another alot being stupid under the influence and saying or doing things they normaly would not and that causes guilt that makes you want to drink to forget and then it can happen again. I hate hanging out with drunk people I know they are foolish and stupid and often mean out of the chemical . yes quiting any habit is difficult like posting! but I know it can be done congrats shelly.

the reason he sent the information outside of the way was because he was afraid something may hppen to him and he wanted others to have it just in case. I clearly remember this because I thought at the time this is a group of christian ministers out of control . Many of us still have the tapes they generated at the time and this is in writing somwhere around this spot I suppose.

Since many here have struggled with this in their life I want to ask question . I am chubby but not to fat to function in a manner that gets the job done in life. I can buy from stores and fit in my car etc. I have enough energy to last at a physical job. but I over eat . alcohol abuse is different most can not do what they want to do if they are drunk . it is illegal and difficult to get or keep a job becuase others do not trust your judgement. It messes up your real life with your relationships . my question is why. why do people want to get drunk or do drugs? I have been a little drunk relaxed you know a little loud and silly. but I would never go to the point of not knowing what I am doing or being able to safetly drive a car etc. I know after a while it can be physical , and that has to be oover come. alcohol is a depressant it just makes you sadder if it is to forget and I do not forget anything if I have a couple of beers so I do not get it . why if alcohol is messing up your life why do you still drink? I like food so I over eat but I do not think it is for the flavor is it? why is it so difficult to say Im not doing that agin? is it your friends? that cant be it as many hide the problem and drink alone . it can not be social pressure I do not drink and my friends and family like me and I am welcomed drinking tea or water where ever I go . I do not think it is always self esteem issues where people are shy either snd need a drink to "open up" . what is the attraction? what do you get from being drunk if you know it isnt something you want to do ? I smoke I do not like that and I have been unable to quit but it does not change me or get me into trouble . is it a desire like smoking?

yeah its been keeping me up at night to ex.

Steve where do you get the energy? really I mean do ya think a conversation with John LYnn will change anything? and that is what this all is a game to distract people from who Jesus christ is alive today in our thoughts . a hard ball game that has far to many innings in a very short life , then again Im not living for a deep seated cause and effect world anymore. why? do you really wish to reconnect and fix your broken relationship with CES? thats nice. if not that then why are you so invested in this? just curious.

cynic OH MY GOD I am still smiling and lol!! why does that song seem so funny ??? think about it! hahahhhah hhheee you guys kill me. lol theme music for the spooky show down!!1 hahahhaha made my day OMG lol that is to funny . hits home doesnt it! hheehehe haha

your right Steve. sadly so. watch how the conversation gets ugly real quick without the fans to back him up..been there done that. he neeeds the people to believe what he says and they need to believe what he says. everything said must be calculated and controlled . he is a leader and they will follow. fame has a price . I like making mistakes I like having relationships even life long ones where I can no longer fool people about who I am it is truly alife of freedom and Love Christ speaks of in His fellowship. I wouldnt trade it for the fake power and control some desire to live for an ego stroke .

Im so sorry I misread you and put the word disgust instead of disturbed EX10. I went out with my people last night and asked them why I do this write on Grease spot. one is an ex-twi who never blinks her precious friendship eyes about twi or any of its off shoots. we have been best friends for over thirty five years . before in and beyond twi and never skipped a beat honestly we do not speak alot about it because it is not the base line of our friendship or ever even played a part in it. I wish I could say that about other friends from high school who have gone on and are still in twi or involved in a off shoot. the other friend is a catholic girl who is seventy years old and looks and lives not a day over thirty (she kills me) that I have known for only about three or so years but is a trusted loved friend. they both think it isnt a good practice for me if I have to doubt or be "disturbed'(good word), they tell me cable tv is better! but the very facts I wonder and think about what is said here and it "disturbs" you is a red flag. we are not normal . we struggle with a thinking pattern that is ingrained and not healthy. and yes it does indeed belong to each of us. your statement of SO? well I feel a connection to people to God to one another and I want to share fully who I am with others and not hold back and be me. I think cult(group think) thinking stilfes that and isolates our interaction to think as it may please the others or a leader we may esteem higher than our self. for me this is not a genuine me it is a manufactored self that manitains relationships and interactions on a baseline other than honesty and love and a true knowing and sharing of one another. namely co-dependcy on the group and/or its leaders and their esteem . I no longer desire or need such relationships .

ex10 I read your post about your disgust . Look at this site this grease spot and consider this . Is not your definition exactly what defines this site? yes it is.. everyone is ok with being critical and making accusation untill it bites their own personal nerve on what they consider worthwhile and good and just. then the arrogance and angry feelings shine on. and what becomes important is who knows who, who has more say so because of endurance and friends and connections or even the past and their reputation. A heirarchy is formed within the group and that is the root of all cult following and how shame guilt and fear is used with the inner need to belong and loved . the good of the cause is more important than self and abuse can flourish unoticed untill enough is enough and an indiviual no longer needs the dysfunction with the group approval . it is powerful stuff and it works for many for a entire life time of co-dependecy , and addiction to what others may think or say or feel about you.

do the people that run the AA meeting get paid? really?> I always thought it was others who were in recovery that helped one another stay strong without the addiction. I have heard of people being court ordered to go to meetings for a dwi or other charge . The cultish part I agree but you know I do not know what it is like to have to drink or do a drug without a choice and it must be difficult to find others outside of your group if you have directed your life in that circle . I mean what do you do really one day wake up and telephone all your drinking buddies and say I do not want to drink anymore lets go bowling instead? I think AA and those groups gives them others to talk to about changing your life and the struggles and rewards of it . I bet they do get a little close and appear to have all the answers and anyone who disagrees is not welcomed. well I know it is a long road and people fall off the wagon and who eles is there to welcome you back with faith if not these groups who have been through it themselves? I have a hard time wondering how difficult and a struggle it is how could I know? but those who are dedicated to the meetings do 'get it" so I encourage those that find support and help in these groups to attend . they welcome anyone as long as they follow "the program" well maybe that program is a better one for some than the one the had before the meetings in life like drugs and drinking. change like that is very hard and people feel lost, they neeed a connection to humanity somewhere to get life going and feeling good about what they want to do. GS is like an AA group lol I can see that and theoff shoots is the next town neighboring bar crowwd. whatever people need God provides, everyone grows into themselves on a different path. my friend was on herion for thirty years (very functional addict believe it or not ) now the methodone progrom for life and he goes when he wants to go overboard and be more of a druggie than he is, just to hear the horror stories of how bad the road can be.yet he will never be clean( he is in his fifities now) has no intention of living life sober and some you know lose respect for his choice and consider him weak in the meetings so it isnt a perfect fit for him . He is able to help many in the groups realize alot of good things, he gives them alot of hope becuase he has been able to be married have his own business own a home raise children etc, and that helps many think they can have a better life as well. it is good.

I do not think a paper on adutry is all that heavy duty stuff of revelation. people can write what they want. I do not think he was a whistle blower who saved anyone from the evils of twi with his paper. I believe motive and loyalties went beyond what anyone wrote and that is what the slit and divsion came down to. Are you saying a paper on how adultry is wrong was that much of a revelationto to leave or the fact the leaders participated in it? including JohnL. and John S by their own admission later of course. If so I do not agree I think there is plenty more to the story.

. Lets look at this life saving paper a little closer . It was a paper telling christians adultary and fornication is considered sin in the bible. You think it would have made a difference? oh please yes all the sex and abuse in TWI will now stop because this geek researcher few even heard of in the barn in ohio says the bible wrote a paper yeah that is right . some heavy stuff there and WOW what revelation! he has since written a book called SEX and the Scripture if you need to see all the details. un the proceeds go to CES now wonder how he found the time what with saving all the lost souls hero that he is hmmm. come on that isnt my point. my point is he isnt a hero he was a degruntled employee with ideas and plans to join up with John and make CES while working for twi. I think the paper had very little to do with what was going on word wolf and if vpw was still alive and LCM had not ....ed so many off it would have gone a different way,inside the rank and file of TWI at the time Word Wolf. BUT instead they used it to gain memebership on their hate trip across the nation and get followers. I disclosed far worse and I mean far worse where innocent people got hurt badly in first person by a "leader" and I was marked and avoided where is my cult following now hmm? fine paint him an golden idol all you want but the idea that he broke the rules because he is a "better" christian and changed the world does not fly with me in fact it leaves a bad taste in my mouth for the type of man he really is. plenty of clergy left in those days without the scene and tactics they used to gain membership on their gig plenty. it was about money and power over people . it was war.

look tom research is some serious stuff in the money department medical reasearch is done over years and only parts are done by several people so only a very select few know the actual outcome of the work or findings untill released. it is like a puzzle with each researcher having a piece of it to work on and only the one with the bank roll who has the large picture. if you worked for a company and found an answer to anything and it happens everyday in many companies as far as saving much money and time it may be YOUR idea and effort applied but it often belongs to the company itself and laws are in place to protect who employs you to do the work. maybe if it a good company they will give you incentive or promotion if your idea succeeds and makes them a ton and then again maybe not. papers and contracts are signed in any business where money and ideas and research are generated. I will give you one example a friend of mine owns a cleaning business when you become his employee you sign a paper that states you are in no way allowed to work for his customers while employed for him or for ten years after your employment with the company. he had a girl that worked for him recruit one of his customers for herself and he sucessfully sued her and won and now she has to give him alot of money for many many years and give up the customer for herself . happens every day tommy boy .

I do not think he is a hero with a cause raf. it was company policy to not allow the release of any research unless approved . The paper he wrote was not approved of he worked for the company and gave it to those he knew would keep it for him that were outside of twi and they were wrong for firing him? he did what he had to do fine and dandy but to be shocked and shame a company will fire a person for breaking a MAJOR policy . God speaks about being an honest employee and person as well and because it was twi it is excused as harmless and ok? cant you see they played the victim card in this as well? if he had worked for any other company and released inside work and information no one would bat an eye on the fact he was let go . but I think it is deeper and about the fact they did not want to work for LCM fine again then quit and call it a day wash your hands of a bad job no not these guys they had enough back and wnated the money roll and the people to go with them so they made it happen. Am I taking sides? TWI was a company RAF. with millions of dollars if not billions , they had policy and rules for the dept. as anyone who worked there will tell you and because these two knew what they were doing to start their own cult twi was wrong to stand up for itself? I do not think so. they are excused for their behaviours and wrongs and lies and sneaky ways because they had the mouth to save everyone who was being kicked out and leaving after vpw death? did they save you? plenty will claim they did . do not make it more than it is JohnS was paid to write a paper for twi research done at twi belongs to twi not to the individual who wrote it they didnt want it released ( oh now everyone is shocked ???) it was the companys right to not release research without approval and John S., released it anyways and got fired. big deal whoo wee . John S broke company policy knew he was going to be fired for it counted on a year of unemplyment and joined up with John Lynn to start CES where their work would be their own . at least just call a spade a spade.

same difference it was done on the twi payroll and they disagreed on it he sent the paper to outside folks when he feeling mighty threatened by the way over the fact they did not want it released and he did. He was extremely intimidated by twi at the time not because he wrote the paper but he was threatened to not share the information he had with anyone and did anyways. he was afraid for his life and wanted the information to get out that so he sent it to those no longer in. and shortly after joined up with John LYNN. he is not a hero either he wrote a paper onsex and the bible wowo Im impressed and was afriad of the leaders that paid him to do it and behind their back sent it out to those he wanted to. (Martha Steward is going to Jail for much less sly and sneaky business practice) If he saved your life from the division and split up of a cult and you worship him and his new found one for it go ahead . he can also be defined as a back stabing friend and an illegal employee using any means to get an edge in the war about to begin between the two sides of the same pile of **** with money to be had. It was policy to not allow research material to go outside the dept unless approved. John Lynn was already started his rampage, DR. was dead and had stayed dead lol and people were looking for a new man to be made king of the cult.

I have known Jesus since I was a vey young child , honestly spoke to Him and prayed and read the bible and felt His companionship. Yet I have no more or less of a relationship than the child today who is walking a country path looking at the wild flowers and asking God how He made them. or the man or woman who has lived a life of ruin and decay with drugs or alcohol and asked for forgivness and recieved it from a healthy loving Lord. Jesus Christ Loved us enough to die for us , for a reason and that was so each of us can have a relationship with the one and only God for all eternity with HIM. I will always owe God always. Most christians are nice and good honest people the bible says to live peaceably amoung ALL MEN. Those who have aligned themselves with these groups are filling a need in their life to be sure , my entire point in all this is the fact they will never find it in these groups but the love and peace they desire is available in a world created for HIS people. the world is a good place Jesus makes it so and every day is exciting knowing a better place is yet to come where will all be free of the discord and strife and games people play. I go out Im so happy I see the love of God in so many , doing what we do to make a difference for everyone , not debating doctrine or who claiming who is right or wrong or more important or not . life is so easy and without trouble when you can break free of the prisons these leadrs make for your life. God does need us to do anything but love Him with our whole heart. but your group will sell you differently . you have been bought people with the price of His only sinless child. please remember that.

it is very personal . I may know very well Im learning a big lesson or able to be healed in an interaction but that does not mean i know my spirit is working with another in another area. it takes trust and faith and endurance and courage to expect such a life.

I am saying people go with what they are comfortable with and apples do not fall far from the tree. sky4

I am able to recognize knowledge and academics from self worship and alligence to a man or woman in an organization clearly sky4. I think that was a little insulting to those who simply trusted people to be honest and trusted them to care about them as christians should . the accusation of "thinking evil" is flying around Im certain about my attitude towards CES. Let me say the other side of that is believing that everyone who spews out bible verses actualy lives and does the application with an honest and pure heart with Love towards the Lord Jesus Christ and His body. I think that is what CES stole from people the most. WE are a people created to love one another to consel one another and to minister to one another what CES did was steal that away from Christ as the leader of Gods people and make their own deal more important .

Ex. yeah baby lol that should do it!!! hehehehehehahaha lol

Yes Tom that is the way it went, Ask Ralph D. if you do not believe me he went to Matindale and actualy questioned him why as they went to the same "twig".. John S. and walter both took a hit at that time. Their research took time and money ( I think it was about two years for that paper ask John for the time line) and it was on twi bank account martindale and walter squashed it. heads roll. Im sorry but so many think these groups just fall from heaven and happen by some miricle of God like the feel good sing along buy our stuff shows you pay to go to. no it is somone thinking planning and I would say coniving. the fact two ex wifes and five children need to be fed and happy and paid for along with the new wifes and girlfriends it can get expensive. some body needs to plan and plan they do and their corporate model knows how to make money and loads of it. what do ya think ? that these uneducated hill billies from some cubic hole on an OHIO farm know how to do it any other way? to their benefit now both John and Mark can pay for the tuition for an actual college education as well as their children off your pay check. Im sure they are thankful quite a move up for a window washer and a office gopher boy for VPW> yes who says a cult doesnt have a ladder of success ? I know twi never offered that as a perk of the job hahahaha . so now they will have real credits other than being in a cult for most of their life . yeah they love ya baby. do you ever look at how they live? they go to school vacation together for weeks at a time, travel when they want . Maybe the fact I have seen so many families struggle for decades after the toll of paying the way who are older and uneducated without pension homes etc. People who never had a chance to even have families cause they worked so hard for this kind of game it kind of bites my *** to listen to Mark tell us all about his new class and the paper he writes. Hey how many while in the way could pay for their kids to go to college work when you felt like it and vacationed in the best spots etc. etc? oh that is right they are special they are Gods leaders . I cant stand this anymore! if they happen to throw you a 4 dollar tape filled with an hour of their up coming events and advertising lucky you I know you feel loved and special . .

I think I do look at this alot differently than you guys . leave of absent how nice a wording of course we all need time to reflect on life and God. THAT IS NOT WHAT happened. John Lynn wrote a letter saying how sorry he was for hurting a member in the body of Christ blah blah blah HE GOT BUSTED PEOPLE!!!! HE WAS CONFRONTED for sexual misdeeds by CES because somone complained about his life style hence the dam apology . they punished him his own dam company punished him too here this poor sucker is paying their way in life on his lies and deciet tuittion to college travelling kids camps all of it and they VOTE him out for a year as PUNISHMENT. to which he agreed , of course he did,something had to be done because someone had something against his mess for real and the mission for God must carry on you know I mean lifes depended on it esp. Mark and Karen Ann and John S. who is now living quite well in the CES gravy train. I wet my pants with laughter when they sent that letter out. whoever John Lynn "hurt" must have been happy with that result Im sure that gave her a easy ticket to the inner cirlce of love and forever faithful of CES and that is all a true cult head esp. one who is willing to be sexualy abused by its top leader ever really wants in life isnt it? it was all good, poor john with his updates on how he tutored for the sat that year in his first and only real job in life yeah Im sure that is what he truly lived on. give me a break he has money his family had money and he was floating around being a single guy with a life without those pesky believers for a change> IT WAS A PAID VACATION > and it gave people the faithful one a chance to listen to Mark as the leader and loving one without mr. obnoxious cult leader taking center stage every minute. and it worked Mark stood for God through it all even John Lynn can you guys not see this at all? John knew he didnt want to work forever and Mark needed to rise up to lead the people kind of hard as you know John Lynn was becon of hope for so many who had left the way now they were ready , john go away for awhile let Mark be the chosen one of God for a minute for the people of course ... take some time off bro... notice now John L. works much less and is enjoying his married life and Mark is going full speed ahead? yeah they do not think about the future and how to make money . you guys are just stupid sometimes. Im sorry if Im bitter your stupid.

John S. was asked to write the paper on sex by twi. he was an employee at the time... they disagreed on it and refused to put in into publication . John S. started to get paranoid for his very life ! John S. sent out copies to others outside of the research dept in case something happened to him . John S. hooked up with John L. and the war began ....

I say continue on well that is wrong because I have no doubt they wouldnt be forthcoming and I have no clue what their day to day current activities may be and it is a much smaller closed sect of inner circle who trust and take care of one another. let me explain where I was coming from for you OM. After he was fired John L. was roaming the country saving the souls from the evil of twi and recruiting them into his heart of love and leadership he was using the storys and drama from the victims in twi. it was soap opera who knew who and pure drama and it worked. fine. A few years later both he and John S, admit to being involved in the same type of activity (of course by satan and with the tears whatever ) while in the way. HMMM after the people had bowed and joined up and raised their arms in worship of course. drama agin this time to prove they know the pain of twi and can relate to the sinners they now lord over, how repentance is key to their life and to explain the fact both of their marriages fell apart what with being good christian men they had all corners of accusations covered . If they had a mission of truth and honesty and really had the courage to be honest why when they took a stand against twi did they not metion their own crap which stunk just as bad if not worse along with their tune of the evil way? no they covered till they had enough people to pay their nut and got what they wanted a hard core following that would understand their rough life and give them the pity and stand up for them against any accusation of wrong doing or doubt of their true love. hence the birth of the very important core of their cult which fell from twi into their arms blindly going forth standing with those who speak the truth. the special ones you know who really love God and those who speak His truth in love no matter what the gainsayers may claim about them. lol . people following people has been the norm for this group and always will be. they worked the crowd they played and they won many by manipulating . it is stronger and more manipulating than twi ever was. it is a cult built from a cult following with players that would sooner die for the cause than leave the only life they have ever known.

it runs through my mind if that is not the very reason the martindales stay married . We tend to forget that all of us struggled a great deal with "what happened" and in spite of we all are christians trying to mend our life with God and one another. I chose to stay single after divorce. Do I think Paul says I would be happier? yes and I believe it to be a true statement from the bible. It does say a husband of ONE wife. I think we understand why even in our very liberal culture with rampant sex it is something to talk about and a distraction from the cause. If a man can not run his own house well can he lead people well? I do not know if it is wrong or not I do wrong nearly every single day and still wake up every day ready to meet my maker. I get judged often for not finding a husband and being a single woman as well. I know God loves us and to be in a miserable marriage that is a lie of a life together is not how He interacts with me. I think Jesus said go in peace when he healed people and I know my Lord is a gentle spirit who does not care for strife and envy and all the trouble a bad or unloving marriage can bring a person. should he be a decon? this would NOT be an issue with me. I know John L wanted his marriage to work and tried for many years . John S. is also divorced and had small children, why is his mess always dismissed? He also addmitted to adultry while in the way and was divorced post way that roll boy always comes out like a shiny coin and no one gets on his crap. why is that hmmm? just curious . they will scream grace in your face. hmmpf most christians will with at least on area of their life I have found out including me with the smoking and not being as organized as I should/could be. the personal prophecy advertisments and shows are an issue with me tho. Alot of my distaste comes from the fellowship I was in and I do not want to go into details but they wanted to be ordained by CES and it really felt like the group changed and fell apart when that was on the platform due to what CES dictated had to be done in a certain way. I think Mark gets too intellectual in his writings and goes overboard with over thinking ideas and it stretches beyond my comfort zone on what the bible may say. he is like a tiny Matindale with a harness held by his prophetress wife, hehehe sorry Mark. hah if no one gets that it isnt displacement I enjoyed Martindales scenes in the day hahah . Well we can all pray . Raf when I went back to twi the second time I stood aloof and learned and I didnt get hurt like you are with CES for the most part.. but I wanted more and I put more into the fellowship with CES and yes I do feel strongly about how it can draw people away from Gods will and into their thing . I do not know the motives I just know it cant be good.