WordWolf

And I say that to say to disregard the conscience categorically is a foolish thing and makes no more sense than to feel physical pain and to disregard that.. (And don't tell me some people weren't told to disregard THAT at twi- that's the kind of nonsense that someone, somewhere, was espousing. "You're confessing negatives, that you're not healed...") And the OTHER idea-that a conscience is simply a noise, a distraction, something to be disregarded and IGNORED is a dangerous doctrine, designed to leave one open for any "convincing-sounding argument"- like how God wants you to ignore your conscience completely, and obey the leader when HE says one thing and your conscience says something other (rather than evaluating both positions logically.) This idea that the only 2 possible positions are 1) trust your conscience 100% and ignore logic and 2) ignore your conscience and trust only logic is a False Dilemma. The truth of the matter is that the conscience is a warning indicator, to point out dangers and pitfalls. Can the conscience mis-identify? Sure. That's why you add THINKING to the system. Not adding thinking is just plain silly. DISMISSING the conscience and only going by logic- and, to be honest, external arguments- is to deny one warning system that alerts even when a threat hasn't been fully articulated. Without it, you're prey to any convincing-sounding argument.

Must be. To Quark's horror and Rom's delight. No, you forgot to account for the title. Grand-Negus Zek got ahold of one of the Bajoran Orbs of the Prophets. When he tried to see the future, the Prophets saw into him, didn't like what they saw, and "improved" him, making him a generous Ferengi.

Whiteside's book (which I still have SOMEWHERE) was more about visual art than about written compositions of any format, page for page. Whiteside's book was also about how to evaluate art to make sure it lined up with twi theology. That's why it included an example: a piece of art, and a critique of why it was considered spiritually "off"- the rigidity of the lines (the dancers' legs, and how they boxed in the violinist) and the darkened eyes (the violinist's eyes were done in black)- and how that makes a difference spiritually. I believe I bought that in 1988. ====== That book, BTW, was the apex of twi's foray into determining good and evil in art, from an intellectual perspective. It all goes downhill from there. For example, at ROA '89, after 4/5 of all twi members walked, there was a twi seminar on "the Word and writing". Was it an exposition on this very subject? No-it was entirely about "how to submit articles for the way magazine." Some people may consider it a complete coincidence that nearly the entire research staff of twi had just left, and twi was now pushing for all literate members to send in articles for printing. Some people may also consider it a complete coincidence that the "gmir" articles (the actual study items) had ended, and articles now had LOTS of BIG graphics and many pictures, almost as if they needed to stretch out the articles to fill an issue. Some of us would NOT consider those complete coincidences.

That's how I'm seeing it. I might say it, though, as "Too much grace without discipline is licentiousness, and too much discipline without grace is legalism. In balance, it is good."

"I have a friend at Starfleet Intelligence. And she has a friend who has a cousin who's married to the assistant of one of the members of the Federation Medical Council." "Really?" "And according to my friend, her friend heard something from his cousin that his wife heard from this council member that I thought you might find interesting." "Which is?" "Doctor Wade is not going to win the Carrington." " 'If they want their money back, give it to them.' " "Rom! I have got a plan." "Does it involve me brother?" "Not really." "Ah... I like it." "Rom, do you know what this means?" "Yes. It means we're going to have to memorize a whole new set of Rules." "So I told her where she could get all the stem bolts she needed... at wholesale." "So how does it feel to be the youngest nominee in the history of the Carrington award?" "You're about to read the shining triumph of my life. The one thing I'll always be remembered for." "Never place profit before friendship." "Latinum tarnishes, but family is forever." "Money can never replace dignity."

Obviously. Which surprises me, since I could have gotten it by now.

Ok, tragic replacement. That's 3 shows I can think of. 90's- that eliminates one show. The other two were both set in NYC, which your initial quote suggested. I was going to go with one, but on reflection I'm going with the other. "NEWSRADIO."

Now THAT was a memorable line! I'm going to wait a bit and see if any new faces peek in and see this, and can identify it.

You presuppose this means there WAS no conscience. So, they either were missing any internal warning system, or did not HEED any internal warning system, and fell victim to the "convincing-sounding argument" the serpent used, and thought what they were doing was acceptable. I agree. And I think this is a GREAT example of how that process works- which explains why it was so successful when vpw said to ignore the conscience. Bravo.

That's the logical fallacy "argument from silence", or "argumentum e silentio". "Argument from Silence is an informal logical fallacy where a positive conclusion is drawn from someone's silence. For example, if one's opponent in a debate does not respond to an argument, it would be a fallacy to conclude that he or she cannot counter the argument." "The argument from silence (also called argumentum a silentio in Latin) is generally a conclusion based on silence or lack of contrary evidence. In the field of classical studies, it often refers to the deduction from the lack of references to a subject in the available writings of an author to the conclusion that he was ignorant of it." Under your reasoning, we can make an equally strong case that the church fathers never went to the bathroom, since there's no writing or record of one of the church fathers doing so. The rest of your argument is that none of them would ever die for a heretic, because I see no reason for them to die for a heretic, therefore they wouldn't see a reason to, either. You're assuming they thought exactly like you think now. You SUPPOSE they wouldn't because if you were them, YOU would not. Which is a lot like saying "I wouldn't abuse my offfice if I were in charge of a large group of Christians, therefore that leader would never have done so!" But a number have, because they're not you....

Maybe we're not thinking in the right direction. Maybe a clue instead of a quote would help....

Meanwhile, I'll take a wild swing on your show. "Family Affair"?

"I have a friend at Starfleet Intelligence. And she has a friend who has a cousin who's married to the assistant of one of the members of the Federation Medical Council." "Really?" "And according to my friend, her friend heard something from his cousin that his wife heard from this council member that I thought you might find interesting." "Which is?" "Doctor Wade is not going to win the Carrington." " 'If they want their money back, give it to them.' " "Rom! I have got a plan." "Does it involve me brother?" "Not really." "Ah... I like it." "Rom, do you know what this means?" "Yes. It means we're going to have to memorize a whole new set of Rules." "So I told her where she could get all the stem bolts she needed... at wholesale." "So how does it feel to be the youngest nominee in the history of the Carrington award?"

Closest I can find is "Do you live near a graveyard?" http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ountain++waters

My guess is that he requested such a song. We know he was at least slightly involved, since he introduces the album. Tom, meanwhile, doesn't play that song anymore, but he does play others, like "Lord may I always be true to that call, I want to be part of your story, And Lord may I serve you with all of my all, Till I stand before you in glory."

With that one very notable exception, the other themes, according to vpw and Bullinger both, are all written in the stars. The idea that the stars were placed by God precisely where He wanted them (and I dare you to say He did otherwise), and then later He ascribed meaning to the constellations already in place, or reshuffled the stars into new constellations, to me smacks of trying very hard to defend odd theologies while trying to justify verses that contradict it. (That includes theologies that limit God's knowledge.) Which changes the design HOW? God designed for what He thought would be good, including what He thought would be needed. Since He's All-Knowing, I trust Him to design for things that didn't exist yet. This idea that the only 2 possible positions are 1) trust your conscience 100% and ignore logic and 2) ignore your conscience and trust only logic is a False Dilemma. The truth of the matter is that the conscience is a warning indicator, to point out dangers and pitfalls. Can the conscience mis-identify? Sure. That's why you add THINKING to the system. Not adding thinking is just plain silly. DISMISSING the conscience and only going by logic- and, to be honest, external arguments- is to deny one warning system that alerts even when a threat hasn't been fully articulated. Without it, you're prey to any convincing-sounding argument.

My earliest memory of Dr Who on PBS was Who3- Jon Pertwee, the guy with the white curly hair, lace collar, and sci-fi car. Patrick Traughton was the guy with the flute and the bowl haircut like Moe from the Three Stooges. Was there really a time when he was the Doctor and it was popular in the US? Wow.

"Van Helsing"??

Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't know there were 2 different places. The Fine Arts and Historical Center was set up in that big house as a museum. That one I visited.

So, you don't believe the doctrines of vpw and Bullinger that God wrote His Word in the stars? If so, all the themes were already written, whether or not Man had been TOLD their contents. I also missed the complete relevance of Adam and Eve to this thread, please clarify.

In 1988, Acts 29's FOURTH album was in the twi bookstore, and was almost certainly released in the past 2 years. If it was released in 1988, and they had released all 4 one a year, the first would have been released in 1985. I suspect it was released a little earlier. The albums are, in order: "Acts 29", by Bob Stanley, "Ready for Anything", by Bob Stanley and Acts 29, "It's Hot", by Acts 29. "God First," by Acts 29. I never got a 5th album from them, and am unsure there WAS a 5th album. I know there were newer songs, or at least 1: "Real Life." It may never have been released on an album. The first album had as much of a country feel as a folk rock feel. The second was soft rock-folk rock. The last 2 were rock through and through. (I can still hear the opening guitar riff on the song "It's Hot".) Breakthrough had released their third about 1989-1990, and, AFAIK, it was carried at Gartmore but not at hq. Their list was "Breakthrough", "A Thought Away", and "On Track". When hq did their music challenge, the title track "A Thought Away" was one of the songs entered. Of course, there were also LOTS of musicians who released albums while in the ministry, and you could buy them at an ROA if you kept your eyes open while walking around. I bought a BUNCH of those. That's how I got Tom Burke's second album, "A Fistful of Scriptures." ("Chuck Norris, Clint Eastwood, Sylvester Stallone....") One of our corps posters said vpw told them once that he'd originally considered three fields of endeavour to enter: ministry music/entertainment business It was also commented that he managed to shoehorn in all 3 eventually. Since vpw was a musician in high school, and could play a guitar, he apparently felt qualified to run the musical arm of twi. He had already learned, back in his radio show days (if Mrs W's book "Born Again to Serve" can be believed) that youngsters doing music could interest other youngsters, at least a little.

Yes it is, making this your move, natch. (Me, I'm just frustrated- I should have named "Sultans of Swing", and just didn't check in time to catch "Smugglers Blues.")

It is not.

I thought these were the quotes that would to start ringing a bell. "So you're my replacements. A dandy and a clown!" During "the Three Doctors", when all 3 Doctors were crossed in time, this was what the First said to the other 2. William Hartnell died shortly after this special. They rewrote the script so he could participate. He was supposed to be a full adventurer, but he was suffering from dementia at times, wasn't up to the running around, and his memory often clicked off. So they rewrote the script so he was able to fill his scenes seated, with cue cards right next to the camera, and he sounded perfectly intelligent as he advised the other 2 Doctors. There was also one scene filmed of him in his garden. The other Doctors rehearsed to respond to the prefilmed Hartnell scenes so it seemed they were all on together. The promotional pics showed them all standing together, which he was able to do. Mrs Hartnell said he was delighted to participate, and it meant a lot to him to do so. "When I say, 'run', run. RUN!" The Second Doctor said that a LOT. "... If you are him it should fit. That settles it!" "I'd like to see a butterfly fit into a chrysalis case after it spreads its wings." The Doctor after a "regeneration." For those unfamiliar with Doctor Who, The Doctor (no other name) is a TimeLord from Gallifrey. The TimeLords travel through time and space in their craft. The Doctor's first companion named his craft TARDIS-Time And Relative Dimensions In Space- since it's bigger on the inside than the outside. When a Gallifreyan is fatally wounded, he/she goes into hibernation, and leaves hibernation looking completely different. (This happened every time a different actor was going to play The Doctor.) "Oh, I see you've re-decorated, I don't like it. You haven't been trying to play this have you?" "The Three Doctors", 2nd Doctor to 3rd Doctor, upon viewing the TARDIS control room and his own recorder flute. “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” "“First things first, but not necessarily in that order.” ""What are we going to do now?" "Keep it confused, feed it with useless information. I wonder if I have a television set handy?" The second (funnier) Doctor, during the crisis in "the Three Doctors". ""Nothing to do with you surprises me any more." "Thank you for the compliment." "The Brig" of UNIT, upon discussion with both Doctors he knew, "the Three Doctors." ""So why don't you consult those all-powerful superiors of yours?" "Oh, right now they're far from superior. That's why they left it up to me and me and me." "The Brig", again, addressing the Doctor. He was referring to the TimeLords, who resorted to a desperate tactic by bringing the Doctor's other selves from their own times. "The Three Doctors" was a really famous story in Doctor Who. I vaguely recall seeing part of it when it aired in the US originally. (Very vaguely, I didn't have an introduction to him and couldn't follow the story without one.) I was getting ready to post quotes from the Fourth Doctor, the one with the scarf.

You watched the black-and-white Dr Who episodes with the First Doctor???? I wasn't sure they aired them in the US.....