WordWolf

I've come to much the same conclusions. Most of these people ripped off Kenyon's doctrines, and formed the "Word-Faith" movement, usually while pretending Kenyon never existed. That conclusion's pretty common around here, BTW, or at least not UNcommon.

"A what?" "Certainly you know what a 'headache' is, Doctor." "Of course. But I don't often encounter one."

I think some leaders (vpw was one) are less than keen about encouraging a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ- because that takes away from their own unstated goal to be lord INSTEAD. Heck, my own reluctance to do so might have a lot to do with my own thoughts about being "lord".....

No, you were trying to push an agenda and a point-of-view, including "facts" that have been disproven already here-but you haven't taken the time to learn that. And this "malice and hatred" thing is an exaggeration. What I am is bored more than anything. And any negative emotion is not towards a poster- just towards his or her lies and deceptive doctrine. "Try to get answers?" No, you would have read enough to get some learning by now. "Try to invent answers" would be more like it.

Sounds like the Original Series. Is this "Who Mourns for Adonais?"

Kurt Russell Big Trouble in Little China Kim Cattrall

I always found twi's definition to be soulless and convey no understanding, even without "in the household" added. The definition I used worked with what I found in the Bible. Agape is the Love of God, or the Love from God, either demonstrated by God Himself or someone else as made available by God. That's how I called it. "Agape is the Love of God, or the Love from God."

I started right after vpw left also. I left right after lcm demanded his oath of loyalty. I knew there were problems, but I grossly underestimated them, and figured that private conversations among the top echelon (Regional Directors, Limb Coordinators, etc) would be enough to fix lcm. (I missed the "fog" entirely during the fog years.) Right after I actually said that to someone, lcm sent out a letter. It said, in effect, "We're firing all the staff in your state because they've turned from serving God to serving their own lusts." Now, I may not have been the sharpest tool in the shed, but I could vouch for people I'd spent a lot of time with, and seen when the masks come off, and I'd seen some of the other people on the list, and at least one had achieved the status of a local legend. I knew THEY weren't anything like the letter said, and most of the people I had heard in leadership positions and respected were all placed in the same category. I found it difficult to accept that they were SECRETLY evil, only on the word of a man who didn't interact with them regularly, and was having trouble tracking properly. So, I went off to ROA '89, after a lot of people walked. 1/5 the attendance of ROA '88 were there. Most of the people who'd made THAT one rock were not at ROA '89. Many of those who WERE at ROA '89 were making their goodbyes- at least among those I'd met and interacted with. Many were like myself- there to look at things for myself so I could form an informed opinion. (And attempt to buy out the bookstore, foolishly ignorant of how much of its contents were available commercially.) By the end of the week, it was obvious that A) most of the talent had either walked or been fired B) the thought police were monitoring conversations- and one jumped into a conversation and confirmed that minutes after I claimed that the upcoming conversation would be monitored- inadvertently confirming my claims to a total stranger who now realized things were worse than he's imagined C) events were orchestrated to SIMULATE the things I valued, while missing the mark of SUBSTANCE. The only exception was the Afternoon (nee Teen) Stage- which, naturally, lcm ended soon after, eliminating the last substance the ROAs had left. In short, just going from lcm's statements and direct observation at the ROA, I was able to prove to my own satisfaction that the situation on-grounds was wrong and unable to be fixed. That's independent of the positive examples I'd seen from the people who were canned because they wouldn't swear allegiance to lcm. And when I scrutinized THEM in detail, I wasn't able to find problems like I could find with lcm- and I looked VERY HARD. Were they without problems? No- but they were a LOT harder to find, and I was unable to find them when I was looking. Mind you, if I found THEM just as damaged, I would have walked away from ALL of them and seen what other Christians had to offer. (A few years earlier than I did, I mean.) The availability of what I perceived to be competent Christians at my local area made it a lot easier for me to leave. Basically, almost the entire structure of "the ministry" in my area was still intact- just not working for lcm anymore.

I'm proud to have made this link work.... Kareem Abdul Jabbar Enter the Dragon Chuck Norris If I could think of anything non- Bruce Lee flick that Bruce Lee starred in, I would have linked to him instead...

Check your own sentences- you went from "It was the FEAR-in the HEART-of that mother- that killed her child" to "the fear the mother had which CONTRIBUTED to the death of her child". Perhaps you did that unconsciously, but don't try to shift the blame like that. vpw said the sole cause of the child's death was the fear of his mother. Therefore, he said the mother killed the child, and the murder weapon was her fear. "It wasn't HER, it was her FEAR." Yeah, and it wasn't the crazy man, but the bullets from his gun that killed those kids in Virginia Tech, and bombs don't kill people- but the EXPLOSIONS do. If you can't see how silly it is to try to say vpw didn't say she killed her child via her fear, you're in the extreme minority. Lots of us got that the FIRST time thru pfal, and there's been posters who posted about mothers who became fearful of damaging their own children via their thoughts as a direct result of sitting thru Session 1. And if you still believe the LAW of Believing kills people and deflects crashes like in Session 1, that is NOT my fault. And he was wrong TWICE. Medicine shows that having a positive attitude contributes to good health, in that being depressed can weaken the responses of the immune system. No COMPETENT medical source has ever claimed that even 70% of health, let alone diseases, are rooted in anything psychosomatic, let alone "SPIRITUAL." (How many medical sources USE the word "spiritual", for that matter?) And the Bible does NOT indicate that MOST material manifestation is the result of our spiritual attitude, let alone ALL. If that was really true, all the most ardent vpw worshippers would have hit the Powerball lottery or cleaned up at Las Vegas at Slots by now. Your presumed spiritual attitude would have manifested bags of material wealth for you. What the Bible ACTUALLY says is that the rain falls on the just and the unjust. What vpw did was blame anyone who suffered for being in the position of suffering, since they were supposedly the ones who could determine their circumstances. Didn't waste any time putting the blame BACK on the imaginary mother, did you?vpw couldn't possibly have been blowing smoke up our keisters, so there must be some way to completely reinterpret what he said, adding special conditionals that completely redirect from his emphatic "GOD WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE" to keep you from suffering consequences you fear. If your conscience is fine with that, that's your business. I would agree, but the yelling is tacky. lcm in particular was famous for making claims to the effect that God wouldn't do anything for you if you didn't tithe. (Specifically, he talked about God spitting.)

There's a saying, popular on the Snopes boards (no, I don't post there), that "The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'."

the Rocketeer Bill Campbell "Bram Stoker's" Dracula

Wasway got it- Lou Gramm's "Say Hello to the Night (Lost in the Shadows)", off the Lost Boys soundtrack. You posted Wasway's answer-correctly. Therefore, it is George's turn.

Ok, just saw this movie recently, and she was in it, playing herself at the Academy Awards... Naked Gun 33 1/3 Weird Al Yankovic UHF

It was one of the best rock soundtracks ever recorded, IMHO. (Although Lou Gramm hardly did the ENTIRE album...)

1. Head south on Congress St toward Quaker Ln 0.1 mi 2. Turn left at Milk St 0.3 mi 3. Continue on Central St 0.1 mi 4. Turn right at Long Wharf 0.1 mi 5. Swim across the Atlantic Ocean 3,462 mi 29 days 0 hours 6. Slight right at E05 0.5 mi 7. At the traffic circle, take the 2nd exit onto E05/Pont Vauban 0.1 mi 8. Turn right at E05 5.7 mi 9. Take the exit onto A29/E44 toward Amiens Toll road 27.8 mi 10. Take the exit toward Dieppe/Amiens/Calais/A151/Rouen Toll road 1.1 mi 11. Merge onto A29/E44 Toll road 22.6 mi etc.... Just wanted to save time for the people who didn't want to wait for the download..

NomoreKoolaid

Also notice the "examples" used to "prove" that this fear-thing supposedly worked, and the believing-thing supposedly worked did NOT come from verifiable sources, but rather from ANONYMOUS ANECDOTES, nothing we can prove ACTUALLY HAPPENED, but we are meant to believe them ENTIRELY. Examples: A mother kills the child through her fears. (Every day, LOTS of mothers fear for their children's safety, and every day, LOTS of mothers see their children home safely.) A man begins to get a crippling paranoia he will become a car-crash statistic as he drives, but after a pep-talk, he returns to being a safe driver. (Ok, this one is possible, but hardly a "law"- it's more how someone can cause a self-fulfilling prophecy, or follow a pep-talk.) A pair of men sit in a room and focus their minds on their goal- which then shows up and makes itself known to them, all as the result of their sitting in the room and focusing. They become rich philanthropists, but nobody likes them despite their charitable contributions. (And yet we can't FIND a record of them- is it possible they never existed?) BTW, this story is in TW:LiL and made a big impact on lcm, as he himself recorded in his own book, "vp and me". Funny how he took all sorts of photos of all sorts of things, but we he never went back to that woman and said "Can I get a photo of those drapes for my scrapbook?" despite using it as an illustration for years, and supposedly he was one of the main participants in that story.

"One must hide when the sun gets higher. I___don't____know____what____this____ mad-ness____means." But I, I keep moving on Till the darkest thought makes me want___to___try___these___wings"

Honestly, this was a 2-parter, and should have been 1 episode on Data and 1 on Worf. Data's episode: a power-surge trips an inert program in Data, his dreaming program, for the first time, and he seeks to understand his dream-which included his inventor, his "father" Dr Soong. Worf's episode: he's approached by someone who claims his father survived Khitommer, and follows the trail to a Romulan camp of Klingon prisoners (his father was never there), and re-introduces Klingon culture to the descendants of the original prisoners, many of whom wish to return to the Klingon Empire and leave the camp. (Eventually, they are released, providing they maintain the secret existence of the camp.)

This doesn't address your question, as I see it, but I thought it was important to enter it into the discussion as early as possible, for general relevance's sake... Matthew 18: 15-35 (NASB) 15"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16"But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, (P)let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18"Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven. 19"Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20"For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst." 21Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, (T)how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to (U)seven times?" 22Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23"For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. 24"When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25"But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made. 26"So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, 'Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.' 27"And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt. 28"But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, 'Pay back what you owe.' 29"So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, 'Have patience with me and I will repay you.' 30"But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed. 31"So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. 32"Then summoning him, his lord said to him, 'You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33'Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?' 34"And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35"My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart." Of course, there is also an exception to forgiveness... Matthew 12:31-32 (NASB) " 31"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32"Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. " Oh, here's what I was looking for... Luke 17:3-5 (NASB) 3"Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. 4"And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him." 5The apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith!"

Next song. "One must hide when the sun gets higher. I don't know what this mad-ness means."

"Where are you from?" "Ethiopia." "What part?" "125th Street." "Call Sammus Davis Jr! Call Sammus-he'll vouch for me!" "Boy, when you 'die' at the palace, you really DIE at the palace!" " It is said that the people are revolting." "You said it! They stink on ice!" "The Lord, the Lord Jehovah has given unto you these fifteen... *crash* Ten! Ten commandments! For all to obey!" "We are so poor, we do not even have a language! Just this stupid accent!" "She's right, she's right! We all talk like Maurice Chevalier!" "Count de Money!" "DE-MO-NET, DE-MO-NET!"

Let's move this along. George, just post the answer...