WordWolf

Do you use those standards in the same fashion on ALL books? After all, a LOT of books from the same timeframe as the New Testament are considered to be "authoritative" or at least unquestioned, with far less documentation supporting them, than the New Testament has. Frankly, my beloved SHAKESPEARE has perhaps the same level of authoritative support, and that's over a millenium more recent than the New Testament. Most people never question THAT, and most of those only question a word or two here or there. ("handsaw", "heron", or "hernshaw"?)

Based on my cautious answers to a number where I felt there were trick questions (I reject the first half but not the second or vice versa), my results surprised me slightly. I came up as both 92% Monarchian and 92% Socinian, but Monarchian predominated because of the tiebreaker question- which I thought was a good way to break a tie. A faithful twi'er would have been 100% Socinian, I think. The tiebreaker for me was that I care more about how God expresses Himself than I care about the ubiquitous "Trinity" biting and devouring. One of the odd things is that my attempts to understand and answer ALL the questions on both sides of the Trinity debate, apparently, makes my position on the nature of Christ sound, at least superficially, like the Jehovah's Witness (Watchtower Society) position. They hold that Jesus was originally an archangel. That's distinctly different from the twi position, but- now that I think of it- my current thinking places that closer than the twi "orthodox" position as closer to the truth. (Not that I think THAT's the answer, either...)

Ok, here's another one. "No one can pull the wool over my eyes. Cashmere maybe, but wool, never." "Cuneiform, which is the oldest form of writing, was invented by the Assyrians. But I read it as though it was Boustrophedon, you see?" "I see fine. I also hear pretty good, too. But I didn't understand one word you said." (BTW, Cuneiform was probably invented by the SUMERIANS-so the quoted statement is correctly quoted, but factually wrong.)

Obviously, E-Sword.net's free program would be one.

Reminds me of what one guy said-about using technology to watch movies backwards. He explained what several were about in reverse, but the one I was reminded of here was "the Godfather." It becomes the story of a mob family that loses all its money and power and eventually becomes so poor it has to move back to Italy. twi keeps shrinking, and shrinking... Oh, this little thing? "What constitutes a school? Not ancient halls and ivy-mantled towers, Where dull traditions rule With heavy hand youth's lightly springing powers. Not spacious pleasure courts, And lofty temples of athletic fame, Where devotees of sports Mistake a pastime for life's highest aim; Not fashion, nor renown Of wealthy patronage and rich estate; No, none of these can crown A school with light and make it truly great. But masters, strong and wise, Who teach because they love the teacher's task, And find their richest prize In eyes that open and in minds that ask." (Henry Van Dyke) I have been told vpw correctly attributed it a number of times. Me, I never heard the attribution myself.

I have thoughts on the NT canon. If one were to go by the tiny bit vpw was able to learn, just about anything could sound reasonable concerning ancient texts. (Especially if they elevated Aramaic.) Thus, one is forced (if one actually wants to learn) to go outside twi teachings to learn anything about the texts. I'm not exactly an expert on them, but I've learned a lot more than I knew when I was in twi. My conclusions are: if there was no divine guiding hand protecting the essential meaning of the texts, and making sure we received the essence of what was necessary, then the humans who worked on it did an amazingly-successful job by themselves in preserving both, and the discoveries of the last 50 years only underscore that. I've found that-with the exception of less than a dozen verses across the entire Bible- that talk of conspiracies, altered texts, and excluded texts all add up to a new theology that is supported by a "leap of faith", but not the archeological evidence or any other kind of objective standard. Of course, that's just MY opinion. You DID ask.

I think we know everything we NEED to know, but not everything we WANT to know.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that connecting "lambano" to "ball" by completely changing the word (hey, even one letter changes "chump" to "champ", "desert" to "dessert", or "descent" to "decent"...) and thinking the word somehow remains connected. The truly bizarre thing for me was seeing that BULLINGER pulled that one. It's in the Greek Lexicon. The same explanation is used, and it STILL makes no sense.

Does anyone know how successful the famous "don't visit the GSC online or you'll get possessed" rap is working on those currently in, lately?

Too late. twi learns they should have concentrated their outreach all on the state of Nevada....

Hello! There's a sticky at the top of this forum titled "Welcome to the Greasespot Cafe." It's got some advice for new arrivals. I'd recommend it. (Then again, I'm biased.) There's no universal consensus among posters, but most agree on basics concerning twi and so on. The "pfal" classes have not been run for years. lcm declared them an "old wineskin" and made up his own "wap" class (Way of Abundance and Power) which, by all accounts, is inferior to pfal in many ways. The wap classes are currently being used. Foundational, last I heard, was live in areas, since videos would show lcm, and he was kicked out for GETTING CAUGHT using the staff and corps women as a private harem. (In twi, getting caught is bad, but if you don't, then it's ok.) The local Foundational classes are taught by whoever's local. And require a minimum of 3 students, not 6 or 7. The Advanced class Specials are done twice every other year. They're not done on grounds, but at a hotel (all costs bourne by the students, all work done by the hotel staff, the corps, or local believers.) twi can't really emphasize outreach too hard because even the people in it are too apathetic to push the programs and stuff. CES (aka STFI) I can't tell you about, but they have their own subforum. Someone else will have to tell you about it. CES/STFI has some fans who post here, so responses will vary widely.

True. I'm used to thinking this is normal for twi, but it's BIZARRE for MOST church groups to not be able to get simple answers to basic questions like were posed here. Let's see, to try to answer the questions....

A few confessed, either that they were some of those who engaged in misconduct, or were part of the criminal cover-ups. Some (like the "Moneyhands") have never admitted to their role in cover-ups. (But we know anyway.) A few top people were out of the loop. (Ralph D, maybe a few others, plus people like Peter W who left before this was all in place.) Eyewitnesses reported that she had said, before meeting lcm, that she was going to marry a guy influential in twi. lcm's own "vp and me" reported that-when lcm thought about marrying Donna (read his account-it's cold, clinical, and he didn't really know her that well, TO HEAR HIM TELL IT), vpw went off to tell her A) lcm was thinking about marrying her B) lcm was going to be a top dog in twi. Eyewitnesses AFTER said Donna said she selected lcm because he was going to be up there in rank. Does one really need to be a detective to follow the arrows? For her, other things were secondary considerations. Political marriages often turn a blind eye to infidelity- among the unbelievers. Among Christians, this is shocking, but remember twi was more about cold business than about Christianity- when the inner circle was involved. About top women being unfaithful, there have been a few accounts- but none that I've read involved rape. (Doesn't mean there weren't any-just that I haven't read them and they're not as common if they exist.) As to lcm and his knee-jerk TERROR of homosexuality, perhaps part of it is due to his jock-athlete mentality. Perhaps it's due to a family member of his, who IS reported to be gay. (Who was never involved in twi and has not invited himself into these discussions.) Perhaps it's due to some inner fear that HE had some homosexual thoughts- although there's no evidence for that other than the tendency for some men with homosexual thoughts to viciously attack and demonize homosexuals. Perhaps it's because he felt at least partially emasculated that he was the top guy in twi, and in his own mind equal to the US President (like vpw put around about himself when he had the same office lcm now held), and yet he was unable to assert his masculinity sufficiently to overcome any lesbian acts in his OWN marriage. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps. All are possibilities, some more likely, some less. Take your pick.

I'd say if there's 2000 ADULTS, that's the highest they can be now. (And I'm fairly confident they're below 2000 adults.) I'd believe 3000 people including all minors. However, minors who get older LEAVE. And they aren't bringing in any significant numbers of new people. Although they've chased off all but the most dedicated Kool-Aid drinkers, mostly. So the numbers are low, and have no means of rising, and the group hasn't risen as high as "zero population growth" since the late 80s. That means they've lost members pretty consistently until they plateaued down around their current numbers.

"Maverick"?

Well, NOW I would have gotten it, but I already disqualified myself earlier.

On the one hand, the talent pool is incredibly shallow. On the other hand, those who CAN be found must work under draconian conditions and incredible amounts of micromanagement by people with no background in media or entertainment whatsoever. Is there ANY chance any REAL entertainment could survive such a killing field?

I'm confident I haven't seen this one. In fact, upon bowing out, I can say with confidence that I honestly do not recall even hearing that this was filming, filmed, playing, on DVD, or on cable, nor have I ever seen even a billboard. Frankly, I'd dismiss this as an urban legend if you weren't asserting you've actually SEEN it.

Looks like we need some more help here....

Lurkers who haven't taken a turn recently, this is a gift-wrapped opportunity. Jump in there with an episode, from the original series, NextGen, DS9, or even Voyager or Enterprise. (But not the cartoon.) Let's see some new faces here!

"Dragnet"? Wait, "the Beverly Hillbillies"???????

It took this long? Right, and right. And last I heard, a 5-person wc was succeeded by 4 people. I think the current one may have leaped as high as 6 people in a sudden surge. Then again, I'm just rambling- I don't know if they went up to 6 at all.

Genesis 4:4:20-22 (KJV) "20And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle. 21And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. 22And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah." The first musician-and the first formal music, QED, was back in Genesis 4:21. Without any record of the songs played or sung, the only basis for making ANY comments on Jubal's music is either "genuine spiritual suspicion" or "grand bs", but I repeat myself.

"Seems"? It IS, brother! I know not "seems"!

If it was really Don's idea, I see there as being exactly three possible reasons for him thinking of it: A) As the only man left alive whom vpw ripped off, he wanted the chance for any one of them to attend, thinking that they were entitled to attend, for some noble reason. B) lcm was already drifting into his fog, and Don concluded that the fastest way to get him out was to introduce another Christian leader, and let lcm's jealousy, envy, possessiveness and pettiness drag him out of his lethargy. Unless lcm was ALREADY in his fog, this isn't likely. Was lcm ALREADY in his fog in August 1985? C) Don KNEW that Leonard was the real deal. Don KNEW who really taught the class vpw passed off as his own. Don KNEW that Leonard was the man he knew himself to be. Don KNEW that Leonard was the real deal. Don ALSO knew that lcm's main claims to leadership were a history of embracing anything vpw said, and an ability to shout like some high school coach. Compare the two side-by-side, and it's obvious which Christian any OBJECTIVE Christian would call a "teacher" and which they would call a "student." So Don may have brought him in as "the man who could save the ministry" by being the man everyone looked to-which would lead sooner or later into him being the official leader by acclamation. Anyone see any other possibilities?