WordWolf

The comment about a "hypothetical" Roman Catholic country got me thinking a moment. (A dangerous habit to be sure, but still...) Vatican City's a sovereign nation. Is it a CRIME there to NOT be a Catholic? Would they punish a non-Catholic who wanted to live there? Would he be thrown in jail, forced to conform at sword-point, etc.? I think we all disagree with zealous attempts in the PAST to convert with threat of force, but do they do it NOW? I know El Forehead Grande was big on the idea that they were all set to do so- complete with an aircraft carrier- but I would think this would be a HECK of a news story if they tried it NOW in a European (i.e. "we don't have government approval on every story in the news") country.

Seems Lone Wolf Mc Quade just did something similar to something vpw condemned in pfal- reading PART of a quote to support something the entire text does not, like quoting Psalms to say "there is no God." I doubt he made that mistake by reading a book of the Summa Theologica and misunderstanding its contents- I think he's too intelligent to do that. I think he saved a lot of time by coming up with his conclusion- the Church Fathers were all wrong- and then looking for specific quotes to back up his preconceived notion rather than reading what they said.

There's a local Roman Catholic Church parish by me that does volunteer work for others, and the concern is for the individual and the one brought low. Hanging around with them a few weeks will show you more care for others and humility than I ever saw in my entire time in twi.

Well, Americans are perceived as superior, know-how-to-do-everything-better-than-you types already. Then twi sends the "Moneyhands"-typical twi "do it my way or else" types, which confirm the worst of the stereotypes. The "Moneyhands" should be glad they weren't burned in effigy and run out of town on a rail.

================ Yes, it was Gilligan's Island. "No one can pull the wool over my eyes. Cashmere maybe, but wool, never." Mr Howell. "Cuneiform, which is the oldest form of writing, was invented by the Assyrians. But I read it as though it was Boustrophedon, you see?" "I see fine. I also hear pretty good, too. But I didn't understand one word you said." The Professor and Gilligan, when they found that tablet with the directions off the island. (BTW, Cuneiform was probably invented by the SUMERIANS-so the quoted statement is correctly quoted, but factually wrong.) His explanation continued that all ancient forms of writing went from right to left (like Cuneiform), but he read from left to right (like Boustrophedon.) That's incorrect- Boustrophedon alternates direction with lines- it's "oxbow-turning." Here's a sample of how that works: Boustrophedon is a style of writing where the written lines alternated directions, so that the first line reads .left to right from reads line next the but right to left from "Now how did I know it was inhabited? That helicopter pilot told me this place was out of sight man!" "We MUST be way out! Get a load of these characters!" That episode when that Beatles-like group landed on the island. "I don't know how we're going to explain to our friends that we spent several years with people who aren't even in the social register." Mr and Mrs Howell, of course. "Do you think I began a dozen international corporations by stooping to thievery?" "Well, of course not." "Shows how naive you are. How else do you get to the top of the corporate ladder?" Mr Howell and the Professor. "Why, do you know what it would take? It would take a polyester derivative of an organic hydroxide molecule." "Watch your language! You're in the presence of a lady!" The Professor and Mrs Howell. "Acidus Salicilicus! (That's aspirin.)" "Acidus Salicilius, yes! I'll buy you one, I'll buy you a dozen!" The Professor and Mrs Howell, when Mrs Howell was trying to make Mr Howell jealous, and whispered to the Professor to say something scientific. So, it's supposed to be waysider's turn, but I'm flexible about who takes it. Therefore, whoever DOES post the next one, it's THEIR turn! (Free shot for any poster.)

So, wasway, is your plan for the foreseeable future to give the answers- or drop giveaway hints that tell everyone else the answer, ending the question- only to not take a turn posting shows and so on? It takes time to pick a good show/movie/whatever, and to find good quotes from them, and so on. With us taking turns, we all get to guess, and we all put time into posting them. Have you decided to skip the "work" on the threads? It's fine for you to do so-but posting the answers or giveaways that hand off the answers isn't fair if you're not going to take your turn like everyone else. You could always guess the answers and pm the person and let the rest of us play normally.

Ok, here's another one. "No one can pull the wool over my eyes. Cashmere maybe, but wool, never." "Cuneiform, which is the oldest form of writing, was invented by the Assyrians. But I read it as though it was Boustrophedon, you see?" "I see fine. I also hear pretty good, too. But I didn't understand one word you said." (BTW, Cuneiform was probably invented by the SUMERIANS-so the quoted statement is correctly quoted, but factually wrong.) "Now how did I know it was inhabited? That helicopter pilot told me this place was out of sight man!" "We MUST be way out! Get a load of these characters!" "I don't know how we're going to explain to our friends that we spent several years with people who aren't even in the social register." "Do you think I began a dozen international corporations by stooping to thievery?" "Well, of course not." "Shows how naive you are. How else do you get to the top of the corporate ladder?" "Why, do you know what it would take? It would take a polyester derivative of an organic hydroxide molecule." "Watch your language! You're in the presence of a lady!" "Acidus Salicilicus! (That's aspirin.)" "Acidus Salicilius, yes! I'll buy you one, I'll buy you a dozen!"

Freebie? Ok, hang on.... "Electrical banana Is gonna be a sudden craze, Electrical banana Is bound to be the very next phase"

Hm, that's interesting.

Never forget you're dealing with an organization that always finds time to find ways to intrude and monitor your personal life when they can find a way to do so.

Do you use those standards in the same fashion on ALL books? After all, a LOT of books from the same timeframe as the New Testament are considered to be "authoritative" or at least unquestioned, with far less documentation supporting them, than the New Testament has. Frankly, my beloved SHAKESPEARE has perhaps the same level of authoritative support, and that's over a millenium more recent than the New Testament. Most people never question THAT, and most of those only question a word or two here or there. ("handsaw", "heron", or "hernshaw"?)

Based on my cautious answers to a number where I felt there were trick questions (I reject the first half but not the second or vice versa), my results surprised me slightly. I came up as both 92% Monarchian and 92% Socinian, but Monarchian predominated because of the tiebreaker question- which I thought was a good way to break a tie. A faithful twi'er would have been 100% Socinian, I think. The tiebreaker for me was that I care more about how God expresses Himself than I care about the ubiquitous "Trinity" biting and devouring. One of the odd things is that my attempts to understand and answer ALL the questions on both sides of the Trinity debate, apparently, makes my position on the nature of Christ sound, at least superficially, like the Jehovah's Witness (Watchtower Society) position. They hold that Jesus was originally an archangel. That's distinctly different from the twi position, but- now that I think of it- my current thinking places that closer than the twi "orthodox" position as closer to the truth. (Not that I think THAT's the answer, either...)

Ok, here's another one. "No one can pull the wool over my eyes. Cashmere maybe, but wool, never." "Cuneiform, which is the oldest form of writing, was invented by the Assyrians. But I read it as though it was Boustrophedon, you see?" "I see fine. I also hear pretty good, too. But I didn't understand one word you said." (BTW, Cuneiform was probably invented by the SUMERIANS-so the quoted statement is correctly quoted, but factually wrong.)

Obviously, E-Sword.net's free program would be one.

Reminds me of what one guy said-about using technology to watch movies backwards. He explained what several were about in reverse, but the one I was reminded of here was "the Godfather." It becomes the story of a mob family that loses all its money and power and eventually becomes so poor it has to move back to Italy. twi keeps shrinking, and shrinking... Oh, this little thing? "What constitutes a school? Not ancient halls and ivy-mantled towers, Where dull traditions rule With heavy hand youth's lightly springing powers. Not spacious pleasure courts, And lofty temples of athletic fame, Where devotees of sports Mistake a pastime for life's highest aim; Not fashion, nor renown Of wealthy patronage and rich estate; No, none of these can crown A school with light and make it truly great. But masters, strong and wise, Who teach because they love the teacher's task, And find their richest prize In eyes that open and in minds that ask." (Henry Van Dyke) I have been told vpw correctly attributed it a number of times. Me, I never heard the attribution myself.

I have thoughts on the NT canon. If one were to go by the tiny bit vpw was able to learn, just about anything could sound reasonable concerning ancient texts. (Especially if they elevated Aramaic.) Thus, one is forced (if one actually wants to learn) to go outside twi teachings to learn anything about the texts. I'm not exactly an expert on them, but I've learned a lot more than I knew when I was in twi. My conclusions are: if there was no divine guiding hand protecting the essential meaning of the texts, and making sure we received the essence of what was necessary, then the humans who worked on it did an amazingly-successful job by themselves in preserving both, and the discoveries of the last 50 years only underscore that. I've found that-with the exception of less than a dozen verses across the entire Bible- that talk of conspiracies, altered texts, and excluded texts all add up to a new theology that is supported by a "leap of faith", but not the archeological evidence or any other kind of objective standard. Of course, that's just MY opinion. You DID ask.

I think we know everything we NEED to know, but not everything we WANT to know.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that connecting "lambano" to "ball" by completely changing the word (hey, even one letter changes "chump" to "champ", "desert" to "dessert", or "descent" to "decent"...) and thinking the word somehow remains connected. The truly bizarre thing for me was seeing that BULLINGER pulled that one. It's in the Greek Lexicon. The same explanation is used, and it STILL makes no sense.

Does anyone know how successful the famous "don't visit the GSC online or you'll get possessed" rap is working on those currently in, lately?

Too late. twi learns they should have concentrated their outreach all on the state of Nevada....

Hello! There's a sticky at the top of this forum titled "Welcome to the Greasespot Cafe." It's got some advice for new arrivals. I'd recommend it. (Then again, I'm biased.) There's no universal consensus among posters, but most agree on basics concerning twi and so on. The "pfal" classes have not been run for years. lcm declared them an "old wineskin" and made up his own "wap" class (Way of Abundance and Power) which, by all accounts, is inferior to pfal in many ways. The wap classes are currently being used. Foundational, last I heard, was live in areas, since videos would show lcm, and he was kicked out for GETTING CAUGHT using the staff and corps women as a private harem. (In twi, getting caught is bad, but if you don't, then it's ok.) The local Foundational classes are taught by whoever's local. And require a minimum of 3 students, not 6 or 7. The Advanced class Specials are done twice every other year. They're not done on grounds, but at a hotel (all costs bourne by the students, all work done by the hotel staff, the corps, or local believers.) twi can't really emphasize outreach too hard because even the people in it are too apathetic to push the programs and stuff. CES (aka STFI) I can't tell you about, but they have their own subforum. Someone else will have to tell you about it. CES/STFI has some fans who post here, so responses will vary widely.

True. I'm used to thinking this is normal for twi, but it's BIZARRE for MOST church groups to not be able to get simple answers to basic questions like were posed here. Let's see, to try to answer the questions....

A few confessed, either that they were some of those who engaged in misconduct, or were part of the criminal cover-ups. Some (like the "Moneyhands") have never admitted to their role in cover-ups. (But we know anyway.) A few top people were out of the loop. (Ralph D, maybe a few others, plus people like Peter W who left before this was all in place.) Eyewitnesses reported that she had said, before meeting lcm, that she was going to marry a guy influential in twi. lcm's own "vp and me" reported that-when lcm thought about marrying Donna (read his account-it's cold, clinical, and he didn't really know her that well, TO HEAR HIM TELL IT), vpw went off to tell her A) lcm was thinking about marrying her B) lcm was going to be a top dog in twi. Eyewitnesses AFTER said Donna said she selected lcm because he was going to be up there in rank. Does one really need to be a detective to follow the arrows? For her, other things were secondary considerations. Political marriages often turn a blind eye to infidelity- among the unbelievers. Among Christians, this is shocking, but remember twi was more about cold business than about Christianity- when the inner circle was involved. About top women being unfaithful, there have been a few accounts- but none that I've read involved rape. (Doesn't mean there weren't any-just that I haven't read them and they're not as common if they exist.) As to lcm and his knee-jerk TERROR of homosexuality, perhaps part of it is due to his jock-athlete mentality. Perhaps it's due to a family member of his, who IS reported to be gay. (Who was never involved in twi and has not invited himself into these discussions.) Perhaps it's due to some inner fear that HE had some homosexual thoughts- although there's no evidence for that other than the tendency for some men with homosexual thoughts to viciously attack and demonize homosexuals. Perhaps it's because he felt at least partially emasculated that he was the top guy in twi, and in his own mind equal to the US President (like vpw put around about himself when he had the same office lcm now held), and yet he was unable to assert his masculinity sufficiently to overcome any lesbian acts in his OWN marriage. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps. All are possibilities, some more likely, some less. Take your pick.

I'd say if there's 2000 ADULTS, that's the highest they can be now. (And I'm fairly confident they're below 2000 adults.) I'd believe 3000 people including all minors. However, minors who get older LEAVE. And they aren't bringing in any significant numbers of new people. Although they've chased off all but the most dedicated Kool-Aid drinkers, mostly. So the numbers are low, and have no means of rising, and the group hasn't risen as high as "zero population growth" since the late 80s. That means they've lost members pretty consistently until they plateaued down around their current numbers.

"Maverick"?