WordWolf

Mike's definition of "truth" is a non-standard one. Mike's definition of "teach" is a non-standard one. Mike is a non-standard kind of guy. If he was an intellectual, he might be a Glass Bead Game Player. (Supposing he found Magister Ludi interesting, of course.) This "teaching truth" seems distilled in a handful of doctrines, that is, that the Bible has been retired out by God in favour of a new Bible written by vpw. When page 4 of the Orange Book says "This is a book containing Biblical keys. The contents herein do not teach the Scriptures from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21: rather, it is designed to set before the reader the basic keys in the Word of God so that Genesis to Revelation will unfold" Mike considers this invalid. Mike says the Orange Book is not KEYS to Scripture-it is Scripture. Mike gets this from a secret gnostic understanding of page 4. Since Mike has no problems, any disagreements with posters here are due tofailings on behalf of the posters. QED. There's the famous commercial.

That seems to be the simplest, most obvious answer. It's also the answer I'd go with here. I mean, when he was caught, he had the nerve to say he spoke to angels as a way to keep from admitting he lied. And this was ACCEPTED and the issue was DROPPED. Did he NEED a better lie than the one he had? Not when people believed he would never lied to them.... Continuing in pg-200. He just HAD to add that bit at the end there. It sounded 100% true until then...

*reads* Well, they're still in high school, and still exposed to ideas outside the group. If they stay IN twi, they'll learn that helping others is contra-twi-doctrine. Gotta send that money in to hq.

In case you're wondering, I think that's the ONLY line in the entire movie I had a shot at recognizing. ==== In other news, a new movie. "Do you gamble?" "Every time I order out."

Ok, NOW I know this one. This was "REVENGE OF THE NERDS 2: NERDS IN PARADISE." The scene where "Booger" met "Snotty" is impossible to forget once it's in your brain. It was like an someone meeting his idol face-to-face. (Remarkable, since he'd never heard of him before.) I don't know how I missed the other quote in that movie, though.

No, we've said that when a man goes 180 degrees from conduct God requires, he is disqualified. False Dilemma. We didn't claim that, either. if the analogy is to work, the supposed revelations are the means for vpw TO BECOME super spiritual. If he were a "goodie goodie" (poor way to refer to "someone exercising godly conduct), then he might get revelations. Choosing to be a "baddie baddie" disqualifies one from speaking for God while sinning. This is not a difficult concept for most of the people at GSC. Hophni and Phinehas died for trying that. vpw excusing vpw for vpw's poor conduct does not impress most of us. HOW you arrived at an idolatrous doctrine is really NOT the major issue when discussing an idolatrous doctrine. Which doesn't excuse idolatry. vpw claimed the job, God never REQUIRED such a thing. Hundreds of men of God were alive at the time with those talents. Most of them actually conducted themselves as God said to. We ALL agree he didn't EARN anything. It's the ONE thing we agree on. A parting comment along those lines is SO much easier than actually renovating one's behaviour. God didn't say for the one that stole to regret at the end of his life that he didn't give up steal. "Let him that stole steal NO MORE-rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing that is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth." God can show His mercy without endorsing rape, plagiarism, lies, deception, and catering to vices. And, he DOES show His mercy like that. So you're saying God endorsed a raping plagiaristic liar to teach people not to judge by the flesh. David Koresh made a similar claim that allowed him to rape his women followers... Pride is not in religion, it's being thankful for what God already wrought. Most of us, if faced with a God who would endorse a raping plagiaristic liar, would reject Him. We expect better of GOD ALMIGHTY. Your God is not OUR God. Since your lord is not our Lord, this is little surprise. So, God endorsing a raping plagiaristic liar is supposed to be similar to Jesus being born in a stable. I'd recommend re-reading that. (Or READING that.) There's no pass for sinning there. God didn't choose the sinful and rapist to confound the innocent and raped-that seems to be missing from your verse. If Jesus Christ shows up endorsing pfal, I won't be humbled. I'll be in trouble for throwing rocks at the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

If he had just stayed in narration like he did in two scenes, he would have been fine. (The productiion would still have been a bad idea, but not so painful to watch.) I also think that different people may well be convinced that they talked lcm into being the lead, even twisting his arm around it, but I personally believe he had himself in mind for the lead from the beginning, and just made sure to drop vague hints until someone suggested it so he could be surprised.

And, we're up to the second snow job! pg-198. vpw was fed up with the meeting, and got ready to leave. A little information for those who are not familiar with this incident. This is courtesy of http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/quz_itulsasnow.htm "The Tulsa Tribune notes that the temperature that day was 60 degrees [Farenheit], and the overnight low never even got down to freezing. December 1951 records in 'Climatological Data for Oklahoma' show only 5/10 an inch of snow in Dec 8 and 6/10 inch on Dec 20. NEITHER date concurs with Wierwille's visit, and neither records anything near a blizzard which could stop ALL BUSSES AND TRAINS. Way Corps graduate Barries Hill later confirmed that the rally was the Divine Healing Convention, December 11-13, 1951, sponsored by 'the Voice of Healing' magazine, and that Wierwille stayed at the Hotel Tulsa (which was razed in 1973.) Hill notes that the weather bureau, newspapers and airport do NOT record a snowstorm at that time. When she mentioned this to Wierwille, he dismissed these facts by suggesting that the blizzard was "a phenomenon" or that he "spoke with angels" when he called the airport, train station and bus station. (Wierwille conveniently blames holy angels for LYING to him about the weather rather than admit his fabrication!)"

[i'll agree about POWER. I'm dubious, at present, that it was about HATE.] [Yes, an inflated sense of entitlement is one sign of sociopathic personality disorder. I agree on all of this.] [That's possible, but if so, why did SPECIFIC women get a lot of credit? Rosalind Rinker was lauded, and a few others. I think that if he truly HATED women that this wouldn't happen. I think he UNDERESTIMATED them, and considered them DOMESTICS and TOOLS in his mind- good for the kitchen, and as sex objects, and for keeping silence otherwise. I think a HATRED is a leap-but looking down on them is borne out by evidence.] [i'll agree he enabled and subtly encouraged wife-abuse (but not HUSBAND-ABUSE), and looking down on, and abuse of others. I think this was not borne of HATE, but of INDIFFERENCE. If women were not tools, they were invisible.]

[ Yes, skipping over the "special miracles" is possibly an intellectual blindspot. Since he's not even used to the ordinary, everyday, average miracles, he glosses over them. He may not even be aware they're mentioned. ]

I don't know, but now I HAVE to see it when the answer is revealed. I just LOVED that rejoinder. :D

Well, you missed the mark again. I claimed it was in plain sight and did everything but post a blinking sign. You spent all your energy looking for some type of setup or hidden message. I shall spell it out for you, then. I quoted that from you and said "the answer is right here." It still is. Since you missed it even with help, I'll turn on the blinking neon sign. Oakspear: "I have no respect for idiots who claim to have an inside track on the mysteries of the universe and the mind of God." Mike: "Are you asserting that no one "can have an inside track on the mysteries of the universe and the mind of God?" NOW you can see the difference, right? " who claim to have" "can have" === If Oakspear meets the Buddha in the road, Oakspear will beat him up. :)

Actually, I'll give you a hint and give you first crack at answering your own question. The quote where you quoted Oakspear and replied, that I quoted here? The answer is right here. C'mon, Mike, you can do it....

What did the possible doctrinal accuracy or inaccuracy of the Book of Mormon have to do with two people at Belle's door? It had nothing to do with the discussion-practice and altruism. It's almost as if someone dragged a doctrinal discussion to be quarrelsome and demonstrate doctrinal superiority over someone. Belle already pointed out the utter uselessness of barking demands and swaggering over someone, when compared with "if your enemy hungers, feed him".... There's a difference between RECITING Scripture and LIVING Scripture. Of course, my saying so no more changes the thread than the fight commentator changes the course of the boxing match. Before I even posted, enough was revealed.

And, we're up to the second snow job!<BR>pg-198. vpw was fed up with the meeting, and got ready to leave. I tell you, that just gets more and more prominent the more I read it....

"Do I remember some of those songs?" Do you remember who you're addressing? :blink: Want them recited or something? ====== Last I'd heard, he'd completely re-written "Spiritual Private Eye", but I never got to hear the new version. The old version had a fantastic sound carried in it. The spiritual private eye was talking about a particular case. Between the first and second verse, you can hear him casually light up a cigarette, puff it, and exhale before he continues his story. (Final Fantasy 7 fans may appreciate the gesture also.) Everybody thought it was a great enhancement to the mood of the song. It made it sound more like a gumshoe was starting to tell a story like in those old movies. As it turned out, he was shocked and annoyed when he realized the microphone picked it up. I told him it was a happy accident and please leave it in. (John "Cougar" Mellencamp made a similar discovery when the handclaps were picked up on "Jack and Diane", and retained it for a similar reason- it made the song sound better. He just used it to keep the cadence in practice.) ==== "Superman", however, ALWAYS brought the house down. In fact, it was such a vivid set of images that we performed the song as a skit once. All of us who knew the song got roped in, including this brand-new guy who got dragged in. :D E**e*e played and sang, and added some musical bridges to allow us to fit some actions in at busy points in the song. Everybody was familar with it, more or less, and people had already requested he play it earlier in the evening. The imagery was Ephesians 6:12 stuff. So, one guy steps up to the microphone in a white shirt and bowtie. "Ladies and gentlemen! Coming to you live from the mind of the believer, the spiritual competition! For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high pla-ces!" Then stepped back to act as the referee. (The SONG said there was none-but the performance needed one, so there. We added a bell-ringer, as well-the new guy who got roped in. :) ) The smallest guy was picked to play the Christian, the biggest played his opponent, complete with scary mask. "We step into the ring, my opponent and me, Steel cage massacre, no referee. We glare at one another and so the match begins, Whoever walks out is the one who wins. "Well, he's a musclebound killer, he steals and destroys, He's got a secret weapon that he always employs, He fakes out his enemies and hits them from behind, He messes up their minds. "But I'm Superman, I can leap tall buildings in a single bound. I'm Superman, Me and my Dad can beat anyone around." [The choreography of that part had both wrestlers enter the ring at opposite corners. At the reference to the cheap-shot, the other wrestler sneaks one in until the ref pulls him back. Sharp eyes saw the Christian praying with someone in the corner, And the ref ducked a swing from the bad guy.] "Well, I'm in the best of condition, I'm a wrestling machine, I've got all the equipment and I'm feeling mean. So I yell at my opponent as he dances in place 'In the name of Jesus Christ I'm gonna mess up your face!' " [both wrestlers dance in their corners, awaiting the bell. The Christian flexed, and the last line was yelled by the wrestler, not sang. The bell rang at the end of that line.] "Well, I've got the cobra clutch, and I've got the sleeper-hold, I jump off of the ropes and I knock him cold, I pin him in the blink of an eye, and I say 'Unh-unh, devil, you can wave goodbye!' " [The match begun. The larger opponent, full of bluster, is at an early disadvantage. He's placed in a hold, the Christian jumps and knocks him down, and he's taken to the mat with the count ABOUT to start, when he's 'saved by the bell'. The Christian shouts the final line again as the audience goes bananas.] "I'm Superman, my super-power is in God's pure seed. I'm Superman, my Daddy behind me is all I need. "You can't beat me, I'm a super-conqueror, Born of incorruptible seed, I can see you, I can see all your lies, I'm gonna rip off your mask and expose your disguise." [The match resumed, and the devil is getting a hard time of it, and even suffers his mask being ripped off.] "Yeah, we step into the ring, my opponent and me, And he's shaking like a leaf, he's going weak at the knees, I'm a Born Again Son in the Heavyweight Class, And if the devil don't like it he can kiss my.... "Yes, I'm a Superman, so go ahead baby, make my day. I'm a Superman, you lousy devil spirits gonna blow you away." [The devil's running away and has to be caught and pinned, and the 3-count is very visibly done at that last line, with the bell ending the match.] "Yes I'm a Superman. You're a Superman. We're all Supermen. Heavyweight champion." [it was a little hard to hear the closing. As the ref hoisted the winner's arm up and announced the winner (subvocally), the audience was busy cheering and applauding like it was Wrestlemania or something.] Man, we had a BLAST doing that. Sure would be nice if they popped up on the GSC sometime.

I'm still wondering about that myself. Was he really ready to quit a lot, or did he just say that? I suspect he really was ready to quit. I also remember hearing him teach on what Jesus said about committment, and "no man, having put his hand to the plow, having turned back," is worthy of being a leader.

Since he NAME-DROPPED Albert Cliffe, I would expect he either got something from him, or wanted us to BELIEVE he got something from him. A glance at Cliffe's stuff leads me to think Cliffe didn't have a reputation among powers that be like, say, Karl Barth (whom he also name-dropped). Then again, we've no signs he even used a catchphrase from KB. (This week-maybe next week we'll find something.)

Technically, that IS a change. They used to say "tapped to the ROOT" not "tapped to the HEART". So, they changed one catchphrase, one slogan, one buzzword.

Given that the copyright on "Let Go and Let God" (which was a catchphrase in twi) is 1951, I'd suspect so. I also think Albert Cliffe's book "Lessons in Successful Living" (copyright 1953) would be of MORE interest- to YOU specifically. That's because there are 3 chapters with interesting titles: 1) "Spiritual Healing" (written by a man only nominally Christian who said he got his material from dead people) 2) "Positive and Negative Thinking" (session 1's only chart in the syllabus, and Question 1 of "Listening with a Purpose") 3) "TITHES AND THE LAW OF PROSPERITY." You can cross off your scorecard the "where did he get tithing from" question. (In case you're wondering, I posted this 2 days ago in a different thread...)

Po-TAY-toe, po-TAH-toe....

Well, maybe they WILL use the rabid squirrel. After all, if someone else did it and EVERYONE didn't hear about it, they may do it and claim this is the first time it's happened. That's how they start almost EVERYTHING they do...

pg-198, a bunch of guys agreed to pray for him to get tongues, so they prayed for him... Although this fits neatly with his established pattern of defying authority by hewing close to the LETTER of an instruction and mutilating its SPIRIT, this entire story strikes me as more of an afterthought, an "I WISH I'd thought of this at the time" story. If they were tuned in, they'd have known he was faking. Plus, Hebrew and Greek are not exactly unknown languages to Christians. Then again, maybe they said to themselves, 'he's a Christian-he surely wouldn't LIE to us or try to DECEIVE us.' (Some other people made that mistake, after all...) Further, his degree was in "homiletics" or "preaching", NOT "Bible languages" or the like. Odd that he seemed to think it was later in life, judging from his homiletics... Either way, I find this a persistent character flaw that he's bragging about- ANOTHER persistent character flaw.