WordWolf

If you mean her first post on that page (it's 3rd from the bottom), I did not miss it. (If you mean another post, it's not on page 12.) In that post, she asked if anyone played a guitar. She said he couldn't sing. Actually, your exact post was "Did anyone actually hear him play a guitar? -->" I read HER post just fine. I read the WORDS on your post just fine. I missed that " --> " meant "I did". Forgive me-I'm not used to that particular piece of netslang. I thought you were WAVING, and it wasn't part of the body of the post. She seemed to read your post the same way I did-you asked the question, and waved, being a friendly neighbor. Apparently, her netslang isn't up to snuff to keep up with you either. Ok, that answers the MAIN question. You were there and saw it. Personally, if you say you were there, your word is good enough for me-I need no other confirmation. Ok, that answers my OTHER question. That is, he actually DID play the guitar, if not up to a professional standard, but he did PLAY. (Probably knew 3 chords, could play backup in a pinch.) His singing ability, I got from shazdancer, was something Simon Cowell would have some unflattering terms for. I can speculate why they didn't (HE didn't) try to release it as a record, but I think I've used up my speculation quota for the rest of the day. :)-->

All attend and give heed! Sunesis has posted something especially noteworthy! *blink* *blink* Holy moley! How did I miss THIS one????? Let's check the timeframes here.... vpw grows up neglecting his chores. Harry thinks he's "preaching to the trees" but never SAW him preaching until over a decade later. As a child, he saw a preacher, and supposedly said "I want to be like you." As a teenager, he was a showoff and a bully. He's remembered for tearing up the neighborhood on a motorcycle, and may or may not have played music and sang. (He claims he did.) When he was in high school, he told his dad he wanted to study for the ministry and Harry said "he'd always liked to study." NOTHING about "I have a deep desire to serve God" or "I want to see others serve God". Just about study. vpw himself said that "First, I thought I wanted to be a doctor, then a lawyer; but by my junior year in college, I had my heart set on the ministry." So, it was a profession, like a doctor or a lawyer, as he saw it. No deep commitment then. Apparently, no deep commitment SOONER, as Harry either told the truth or he didn't. Either vpw told his Dad that in high school while he was thinking of other professions, or he NEVER said that in high school and Harry's memory added it (possible, but I'm reluctant to START there.) When he entered the seminary, the neighbors thought he was morally bankrupt. He learned to compose a sermon and get people involved. His first church was in Payne, Ohio. His first sermons were there, in 1941. There he demonstrated an ability to "preach" "good" and "active" and "get young people interested". There were no inner depths resembling what he taught later. In summer of 1942, Rosalind Rinker dogged him "on the Bible being the Word of God." He's "never heard that in all his years of school-not believing it anyway." That means that the summer of 1942 was the EARLIEST vpw believed the Bible was the Word of God. So, his entire time in college studying to be a minister, and the entire FIRST YEAR of his pastorate, he had not yet STARTED to believe the Bible is the Word of God. His entire upbringing BEFORE that, he hadn't believed it either. Rufus Moseley said, of the Spirit, years later, "I'm full, but I can't give it to you, and I don't know why." I think we know why, Rufus-vpw wasn't a real Christian at the time, so he could not manifest the new birth outwards. That's the external evidence of an internal reality he did not HAVE. ======= Bra-vo, Sunesis. Take a bow.

WhiteDove: ALP: dmiller: Whitedove: Here's how I understand this exchange. First, WhiteDove asks if anyone heard vpw play a guitar. (This means WhiteDove has not heard him play,nor seem him play, correct?) Then A La Prochaine and dmiller mention pictures they saw of vpw with a guitar. Then WhiteDove says it was the ROA family table 1974. "But none the less he did play." Um, I missed something, WhiteDove. Did their posts refresh your memory of a time you sat at the Family Tables at ROA 1974? Did you sit there at the Family Table, see vpw walk over with a guitar, and play and sing? Or, did you see the same PICTURE and have you concluded that the PICTURE means he played and sang? I've seen plenty of pictures of politicians driving a tank or piloting a jet fighter, and that doesn't mean they did either. I've seen pics of people with an eyepatch and hand-hook, and that doesn't mean they're missing a hand or eye- that's posed and that's a costume. If you were personally THERE and HEARD him strum the strings and sing something (whether or not he can hold a note even in a bucket) is a big difference from a picture. Please clarify. If you HAVE, at least let us know if he was roughly on-key, or if it was like watching William Hung perform "She Bangs". That's a separate question. (No, I don't want a professional critique-I just want to know if he was awful or at least passable. One or the other.)

Here we get to some of the classic vpw... Plus WordWolf's translation and commentary track... The famous "you can'tfind The Word anywhere if I'm not teaching you" stuff, which, considering he learned ALL his stuff from others, was a deliberate lie. Translation: So God taught me and not any human. Considering he was taught face-to-face by Stiles and Leonard, that's another deliberate lie. He's going somewhere with this... Which is why God taught me.Considering his story has at least THREE different times when vpw was ready to quit, that was quite a gamble on God's part. Do the faithful keep getting ready to quit? Let us not mention Leonard's ministry, who did itsooner and better. Got enough arrogance there? That depends on where Leonard isteaching this week. :)--> This rhetorical question was vpw saying you couldn't learn this anywhere else on the planet. As you all know, it was a lie- but a CONSISTENT lie. As opposed to when, really?

This quote has nothing to do with the news of the past few months, but I'm including it on those grounds anyway... "I need you back here right now. What'll you take to come back and work for me again?" "I'll take a vacation." "Good, you're hired."

(page-178, since "Nothing cataclysmic...") Watch this next quote from pg-179. pg-180. pg-181. Folks?

You sure it's the same person running both sites?

For those of you following along at home, that's the SECOND time vpw was getting ready to chuck the whole thing. So he issues an ultimatum to the Supreme Creator of the Universe. Please adjust your scorecards.

Summer 1942. pg-177, he meets Rosalind Rinker in Indiana. Ok, this was the FIRST time he was ready to quit on God. End of August, 1942. Those of you following along at home should begin your tally here.

I wasn't close. It reminded me of some stuff off "9 Lives". ==== Pirate, you posted this new one and complained about that Bloodhound Gang song? At least that was written completely as a joke! (No, I don't know this one. It's not even my wild guess.)

I shall check and get back to you on this. It doesn't sound familiar to me and I was just in that thing. The only conspicuous description I left out was the abortive attempt at a hand-signal for the group. Having packed before, I'm aware that you don't pack bulky items you have no intention to use. If he had packed a guitar, he was going to play it. If he was embarassed and packed it, he was going to play it IN PRIVATE. Even HE admitted he didn't play it at all. Nobody EVER, I mean, EVER, saw him play in the entire run of the ministry? Does ANYONE think this story even MIGHT be true?

I'm thinking that's one of Smee's lines in "Hook". "You mean an epiphany." "It's like light just struck my brain. "That must hurt." If it isn't, it's only because I was just recounting the "Don't try to stop me, Smee!" scene earlier...

For some reason, I'm thinking "Aerosmith" is the band...

Dustin Hoffman Dick Tracy Warren Beatty

Probably. Is it considered a sport? I know ESPN covers it, and some of the stuff is covered in the Olympics' equestrian events. I've phrased it as generally as possible to allow for all sorts of sports I'm unfamiliar with.

Convenient coincidence that what served God just happened to be the easy path for him. pg-177, he meets Rosalind Rinker in Indiana.

To give everyone the benefit of the doubt, please consider "I rode the bench" to be equivalent as any other position on that team for the purpose of this poll.

Please select the highest level of involvement you ever achieved in the sport of your choice.

"How in the h*ll can you talk about tithing without bringing money into it?" Well, here's how I see this, scrutinizing it now.... According to vpw's account... He was a BRAND-NEW pastor, RAISING A FAMILY. The local elders (read "authority figures") tell him he has a free hand to teach on anything EXCEPT MONEY. So, that week, he teaches on tithing/money. (This can jeopardize his job, STARTING as a loose cannon.) The NEXT week, he teaches on tithing/money. This WOULD jeopardize his job. He's fixated on doing the opposite of his one instruction. The church has now sat thru precisely TWO teachings by the new guy, and BOTH were about giving money to the church. What conclusion would a normal person make, sitting in the pew? "He's in it for the money." It doesn't take a psychologist or other expert to see that. What action do the elders take? NOTHING. The THIRD week, he preaches on tithing/money. The average parishoner begins to get bitter, and either stops attending, complains the new guy's a putz, or withholds their donations. This SERIOUSLY jeopardizes the health of the church. What action do the elders take? NOTHING. The fourth week, he teaches on tithing/money. The average parishoner complains about him being a schmuck on their way out to find a REAL church. Donations are withheld or given as pocket-change. FINALLY, the elders take action (between 1-3 weeks after the AVERAGE council of elders would have taken action.) They talk to him in the kitchen of the house/ the basement of the church. He gives them a smart-aleck response, and they go away, taking no further action. The church responds by giving MORE money, a LOT more money. So many of the details make NO sense on further scrutiny. Might this be another of vpw's fairy tales about how he tweaked the noses of authority figures? If he is to be believed, he bucked the system as soon as he arrived, and mouthed off when he was called on it. According to him, he succeeded that way. This shows the frame of mind of what he considers an APPROPRIATE response. This shows his eagerness to make stuff up. This shows his eagerness to paint himself as a clever maverick who swims against the stream and gets effective results for it. We know that in real life, he bullied the parishoners, and got in some trouble with a church for something he did to a church secretary. We know that in his own mind, he was a veritable hero who was without faults, so it was the small minds of the elders that were always wrong. BTW, it seems that he didn't exactly rehearse this story. It's got a continuity error. The elders met him in 2 entirely different locations for the portentuous chat. I didn't even catch that until now when I compared them side-by-side.

I can see you guys are really cleaning out your collections of 78's....

The Mask of Zorro Antonio Banderas Once Upon a Time in Mexico

Hm. They told him he could do anything EXCEPT ONE, and that was his immediate UNYIELDING focus, and they had the nerve to be offended that he went 180 degrees from his instructions. (ANY church where tithing is taught on for an ENTIRE MONTH looks like it's ONLY in it for the money, and NOBODY will like it.) "They said not to teach on money, so I didn't-I taught on tithing." I'll bet he felt so clever, so pleased with himself for adhering-PARTLY- to the letter while perverting the spirit of his instructions. For those wondering if they were right to give him instructions, they were the ELDERS-the experienced local leaders, and he was the guy who JUST arrived and was young and lacking in experience. Unless he had a compelling reason beyond tweaking their noses, he should have considered their counsel wise and followed it. pg-185-186. vpw is continuing his tour.

Isn't one of the classic indications of a liar someone who embellishes and gives a lot more information than necessary to make a point?

This Dr. Lohman. Did he exist and if he did, did VP really say these things to him? Who would have been there who could have substantiated VP's claim when this was written? Probably no one and VP knew this and used it to his advantage if what I am suggesting is true. What did VP mean by 'kid's talk'? Did he mean that kids talk like 'I'm gonna be an astronaut, I'm gonna be a ballerina/vetenarian, I wanna be a bull rider, a cowboy'. Is that what he meant that kids say the darndest things? But I think it interesting that he speaks of it but almost in a 3rd person...completely removed as if it wasn't him saying the stuff, but perhaps someone else and he was just an observer that day he met this Dr. Lohman. That brings me to another question. Was there a Dr. Lohman and did this mission festival really happened in New Knoxville in or around about 1925? Hm, good point. I was thinking he was saying he was blowing smoke at the guy and sucking up. Looking at the overall picture, it seems he meant something else.. "I am the greatest man of God in 2000 years! When I was 9 or 10 was when we first saw signs of this! Then later came miraculous snowstorms and teachings I got straight from God that you can hear nowhere else!" All of this does not make me think of someone displaying any 'ministerial' tendencies. Even the townsfolk couldn't believe it. So this means that what he had said that day to Dr. Lohman as well as what VP's brother Harry recounts how he used to teach to the trees ... etc... well it sounds like VP kept his aspirations very hush hush to all those around him. Like he almost lived a 'dual' life. --> Right. In public, he was a kid who skipped all his chores, who became a teen who was an arrogant showoff and bully. Where no evidence exists (his mind), he was a devout kid who preached to trees and became some sort of star athlete.

I thought we'd previously discussed it, but I can't find any references to such a discussion, so... In reading this comment, I was reminded (again) of the story and movie, "the Secret Life of Walter Mitty"-a man who lives great adventures in his own mind as he goes about his normal life.