WordWolf

Let's see.... "Esso" is now known as "Exxon"... Is this "The Great Gatsby?"

No, I think you mean the one with the "hey"s in it. That's Gary Glitter's "Rock and Roll Part II." A different part 2. This one begins with the lines "Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends, We're so glad you could attend, come inside come inside..." It's a fairly famous rock song, gets airplay, and I myself have heard it played at stadiums. It's been around since the 70s. But it's Tom's turn.

Yes. I could REALLY be a pain and say that's not the ENTIRE name, since about 1/2 the album or more had songs with that as a partial title, but I say "close enough". To be specific, this is Emerson, Lake, and Palmer (not Powell if anyone remembers him)'s song "Karn Evil 9, First Impression, Part II". This is the one that gets played in sports stadiums, at least the beginning. Part I is hard to separate from the preceding song, and Second and Third Impressions never get airplay because they don't rate airplay. ========== Tom, it's your move!

Then they shouldn't have volunteered. They didn't have to. They could have just been Joe Believers.But the corps was a program that had rules. So many of the IMPORTANT rules-like EVER step out of line and your life is OVER- were SECRET rules, never written or spoken to candidates who PAID THRU THE NOSE to be used as manual labour and ordered around like chattel. If the rules were few, reasonable, public, and clear, then it would be their faults. The important rules were never stated. Again, if there were reasonable levels of rules, and open communication of them,THEN maybe I'd agree with you. Admittedly, a lot of little insults here and there I don't notice. You might consider ignoring the little ones and letting them pass. I've done that when a few of them were directed at me. I wasn't sure if "oldiesboy" should be considered an insult. If you weren't so eager to slap others, I might be a lot quicker to defend you, frankly. Further, I think there's benefit in dissecting some of the things you write because even YOU are unaware of the subtexts in them. If there was no subtext, doing so would be rather silly. I don't actually derive sexual pleasure from them as you suggested. One needs do a thorough job when dealing with someone who hides insults, misdirections and sexual innuendo in his posts. Therefore, for acknowledging my skill in exposing them, I thank you for the compliment. Now then, we were discussing the unwritten rules which were imposed on us, and were used as a bludgeon to force conformity to the rules. Sure, we could have walked away- if we were willing to forsake ALL friends and family (outsiders, we ALREADY avoided on orders previously, insiders would now be told we were pariahs), and step outside the protection, favour and will of God, setting ourselves up for imminent destruction- and the destruction of our loved ones, as later became the doctrine. Now, it was possible to ignore the suffering of others THEN by selective vision, rewrite it by selective memory, or ignore the unjust treatment you or yours faced thru rationalization. That is NOT, however, intellectually honest and most of us prefer to refrain from it when we're aware of it.

"Soon the Gypsy Queen in a glaze of Vaseline will perform on guillotine what a scene, what a scene! Next upon the stand will you please extend a hand to Alexander's Ragtime Band Dixieland, Dixieland!"

It's almost amazing that "as you saw them" is as you STILL see them. However, it's no longer news. And it's "CM". Did you intend to make that an insult?

I don't understand what you mean here. Now THAT I agree with. You don't understand. No, you see them as disobeying leadership, and so they were SCUM. Ham talked about the idea of them leaving the program and returning later, or at least facing an "honorable discharge" rather than being made PARIAHS when they returned to their local fellowship. See, this level of control over people's lives is the problem. And you won't if we wrote it out in 100 pages, with photos, recaps and summaries. Just accept that what people experienced is NOTHING like what you saw, even when it was a few feet away from you.

For full points, Tom, do you know the song's name?

Psst. Raf? We're off that song. Nobody was showing signs of recognition on the Bloodhound Gang song, so I posted a line from a different song. (Which you have heard at some point in your life.)

I think success under these circumstances is many folks in the offshoots and elsewhere continuing in the good doctrine while simultaneously abandoning the bad doctrine and practices. Of course, what is a "good" doctrine and a "bad" doctrine depends entirely on who's defining it. Which is "baby" and which is "bathwater" depends entirely on who's defining it. This is a repeat of the last sentence with a cliche added. Which is the "gold" and which...didn't I say this already? Perhaps. Some of them seem to have a higher moral standard than vpw did. Then again,so did vpw in the early days-perhaps they are just brilliant in covering their tracks. I find that some of them have some pretty good doctrine. Of course, I can say the same of many, many, many Christian organizations out there, and I have in many cases. Further, we all know that the difference between an organization that has BRILLIANT doctrine and an organization that has AWFUL doctrine depends entirely on what percentage of their doctrine matches that of the speaker. Right. That's YOUR definition, and that of other people, but what if you're wrong? Then the "good doctrine" is good in spite of being error. If they are used as "food for thought", I heartily agree. I think it's a good idea to have thought and discussion on each of these topics. I also think it's a good idea to have thought and discussion on ALL topics, ESPECIALLY "sacred cows". IF, however, the doctrine is just dropped in people's laps and discussion and dissent are SQUASHED -which has happened to many Christians in history and continues through today, including even those who are most controversial- then it is nothing more than ANOTHER set of sacred cows, and just another church.

No, and I'm fairly certain you've heard this song at SOME point.

Ok, let's see.... This episode we'll see BG Leonard, what vpw admits to learning from him, what vpw says about him, and the 3 things that vpw finds quoteworthy from BG Leonard. pg-205. Now here are ALL the direct quotes from Leonard. Please note that, like everyone else, he can ID vpw on sight. That was ALL the direct quotes from Leonard. pg-207. pg-208.

Don't know about you but if I squeeze my eyes shut really tight for a while, when I open them up I see snowflakes and white, too. Especially if I've been sipping Drambuie. Ah, yes, "phosphenes". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphene Apparently, drugs DO induce them more as well. I didn't realize that until a few minutes ago. (I suspected that, but a quick search showed it.) ========== Shaz, good point. Sitting in on a seminar becomes "I took every class they offered." However, he mentioned their correspondence programs. Was that an intentional lie to cover up the fact that he wasn't gone for years to take all their classes? ===== Thomas, I'm hoping someone with a copy of Born to Serve will chime in once I've finished posting clips from this book. I expect a lot of people are withholding their lengthier comments to make it easier to find the direct quotes on the opening pages. That's certainly my idea, and I've confined my comments to a few brief things so far for that reason. If someone with the UH biography chimes in too, that's a bonus. I have ONE quote from JD that I'm saving for the end, and if you post how to get Karl Kahler's book, I'm sure we'd appreciate it. We all reserve the right to disagree with his conclusions, however. That doesn't mean I don't want to READ them, however. Heck, if KK wants to post excerpts, I'd welcome it.

New song. "Here behind the glass stands a real blade of glass. Be careful as you pass"

Fine. Since this song was mentioned on regular television and so on, I was under the impression that SOME of you had heard it. The group's name is what people remember: "the Bloodhound Gang." (After something from children's tv.) The name is what nobody remembers: "the Bad Touch." The chorus gets repeated a LOT in the song, so it's VERY recognizable.

Continuing in pg-200. pg-201. Well, aren't WE special? pg-204. Next time, we hear about B.G. Leonard. Try and keep track what Leonard supposedly is good at, and what he's lousy at. Also, vpw quotes exactly THREE sentences from Leonard. On my last reread the past few days, it occurred to me that the exact quotes are utterly fascinating. Guy teaches vpw more than 1/2 what he knows at the time concerning the Bible and so on, vpw just 'photocopies' his class and runs it as-is at first, and WHAT does he really remember Leonard saying?

And, we're up to the second snow job! pg-198. vpw was fed up with the meeting, and got ready to leave. pg-199. I added the spaces, like I do sometimes in this thread, so you don't miss anything vaguely important. Everything from "the Stiles.." on was pg-200.

pg-195. Here we go... pg-196. pg-197, Rufus Mosley prays for vpw, but no dice. "I'm full, but I can't give it to you, and I don't know why." pg-198, a bunch of guys agreed to pray for him to get tongues, so they prayed for him... Although this fits neatly with his established pattern of defying authority by hewing close to the LETTER of an instruction and mutilating its SPIRIT, this entire story strikes me as more of an afterthought, an "I WISH I'd thought of this at the time" story. If they were tuned in, they'd have known he was faking. Plus, Hebrew and Greek are not exactly unknown languages to Christians. Either way, I find this a persistent character flaw that he's bragging about...which is ANOTHER persistent character flaw....

pg-193, Amil Schaffner teaches him some stuff. Supposedly, A.S. spoke in tongues once as a child, and was told it wasn't of God. pg-194. We're almost to the part where he drops a bunch of names about the holy spirit field....

On page 187, vpw shows how to give a compliment and take it away at the same time, when he's asked whatever happened to Rosalind R. Here comes another list of names, from page 188. vpw has said he and 39 others passed the hat around and paid for Christian speakers to come visit them. Anyone know anything definite about the "Spiritual 40 Club"? pg-189. page 190, vpw repeats one of his statements, and hopes you'll connect the dots when he does. page 192, vpw exceeds "everyone"'s expectations again, thru his friendship with an anonymous woman who supposedly taught him about Church history.

Ok, fine. Just give me the ARTIST. I'll include the chorus now. "But there are several other very important differences between human beings and animals that you should know about. I'd appreciate your input." "Me and you do the kind of stuff that only Prince would sing about. So put your hands down my pants, and I'll bet you feel nuts. Yes I'm Siskel, yes I'm Ebert and you're getting two thumbs up. You've had enough of two-hand touch, you want it rough, you're out of bounds, I want you smothered, want you covered like my Waffle House hash browns." "You and me, baby ain't nothing but mammals so let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel." The band is a one-hit wonder-this is the one hit.

Hm. I don't see it now, but I'd traced it to earlier in the century, and a possible name, but I don't see it now. That the poem existed before the convict was born, I think, is beyond question. I have found it nicely ironic that someone who plagiarized a poem sits in prison-the ethics are paired up with the results, that's consistent. Plagiarists belong in jail. :)--> Lots of people who've never heard of twi have heard of this poem, but I'm not sure when that last line was ADDED. I know it was ADDED because I've SEEN it without that line, and I've seen it with a different last line ALSO added. Given that vpw's track record, I don't even think it's viable to consider him the author. Further, he always kept "his" work close to his vest. The poem has had various iterations thru the decades. He would NEVER have let it get away from him. More likely he caught one version and either added the last line, or caught it WITH that last line. If we knew where the convict got it, this would help us track it.

With the exception of the last line, this is an old poem. I did a search on it once before, let's see what I find now....

*sighs* Fine. Please do NOT consider this an endorsement of hatespeech, insults or anything else related to the song. This is the lyrics. (chorus) "Mommas, don't let your babies grow up to be homos. Don't let 'em wear earrings or carry a purse, Let 'em chase wimmin, drink whiskey and curse. Mommas, don't let your babies grow up to be homos. 'cuz they're never at home they're always in men's rooms, Lookin' for someone to love. Homos love musclebound dock-workers when they can get 'em. Retired librarians just have to do when they can't. Little warm skunks, or children, or monks, it don't make a whole lot of difference. They'll give you a wink, then they'll buy you a drink, Then they'll brush all the lint off your pants. chorus Homos are easy to find, but they're sure hard to lose. They'll pick you up slumming, and offer you candy or booze. Now roosters lay chickens, and chickens lay eggs-but homos break all of the rules. On Saturday night they come out of the closet-on Monday they teach in our schools." chorus ========= That thing's stuck in my brain for life. Along with some inoffensive songs, but still. I try not to connect the artist with it by name, since I doubt he wants any current connection with it. I imagine it's part of HIS shameful past with twi, and he'd prefer to get past HIS just as most of us have tried to get past OURS. But lcm just LOVED the song, didn't he?

Do you REALLY want the lyrics?