WordWolf

As of right now, Christians are 18% and 44%. Exactly 1/2 would be 50%. 18% plus 44% totals 62%, which is more than 1/2. There's TWO categories of Christian there- one spurns twi's spin, one embraces it. I'm more concerned about the 18% who embrace it than the 11% pagan types. 24% is Atheist or Agnostic, which is 1 in 4.

I'm stumped, but I recognize the "troll". That's "Mr Heatmiser", from that Rudolf-the-Red-Nosed-Reindeer. "He's Mr Heatmiser, he's Mr Sun, he's Mister Green Christmas, he's Mr Hundred-and-one." "Friends call me Heatmiser, whatever I touch starts to melt in my clutch, I'm too much." Brother to Mr Freezemiser ("Mr Ten-Below.") If you're a huge movie fan, "Batman and Robin"'s Mr Freeze was playing this movie in his lair, during Mr Freezemiser's song-and made his henchmen sing the song. Ok, this movie..... We have Indiana Jones, or Indy, he's wearing a fedora, played by Harrison Ford. Could be any of those. === AHAHAHAHAHAHA! I got it, but I'll let someone else try for a few more hours. Raf can't come online right now and answer anyway. I think that last one is a Van Gogh, but that has nothing to do with the answer.

Yes,and yes. The cop exchange was the opening dialogue in the film. The black Lamborgini was the car Adrienne Barbeau was driving. The comment about the subway was from the end, when the drivers got into a fight with some bikers at that roadblock. Rick Aviles' character came up with a piece of wood and said that. The 2 hits were the guy's shin, then the back of his head. The little guy took him out fast. (I THINK that was Rick Aviles.) The race started at night. The guy who thought he was Roger Moore drove with his lights out. The Japanese team (featuring Jackie Chan, who is Chinese) had a fully computerized car. They shut off the standard headlights and switched on a set of ultraviolet headlights and put on goggles. The 'Sports Spectacular' comment was Rick Aviles and partner, towards the end. The other guy was raving about their one-in-a-million jump over the train. Go, Pirate!

Nobody has to take you up on your invitation. Don't hold your breath. Few people are "portraying" themselves as anything. Actually, rascal made her position pretty clear in her posts of the past 1- 1 1/2 weeks. I had no difficulty telling, since rascal's posts are first understood right in the post they are written. Following nothing more than THAT rule, I was able to READ her posts without reading INTO her posts, and thus found her position. I might recommend you do the same if you want to know. It is NOT difficult. There's a rule of thumb out there, made famous by a group called "Musical Youth" in the song "Pass the Duchie 'pon de Left-Han' Side." That rule of thumb states that you don't boggart-if you got ahold of some good sh*, you share it with the rest of the homies. I deduce you scored some killer sh* because you posted that Goey is either a Jehovah's Witness or a Mormon. WHAT???????? If that's some attempt to use "reverse psychology" to get him to label himself, I'd be SHOCKED if he took you up on it...unless he took a few hits of whatever you've got there. People are rejecting your proposal. Was it Kierkergaard or Dick Van Patten who said "If you label me, you destroy me?" Right, they are. Where is there evidence of some mysterious "Agenda"? Have you not noticed that the overwhelming majority of wiccans and Christians on this board "agree to disagree" quite civilly and don't have problems? A number of wiccans around the country have faced a considerable amount of UNChristian behaviour by supposed 'Christians' who have insulted them, jeered them, ostracized them or BEATEN THEM UP. I've communicated with a number. They communicate with me because surprise surprise! I don't meet them at the door with a baseball bat! I've ameliorated the opinions of a considerable number of them by showing that not ALL Christians are arrogant lcm-heads. What do YOU bring to the table? Haven't you noticed that kicking the door open, bounding in, and announcing you're going to run all the polecats out of town is NOT the way to actually get results? Unless the result you wanted was "draw flak from all sides". The adults here respond badly to people coming in and proselytizing. You arrived and in effect tried to proselytize. They reacted badly, as always. Even if you offered 100% truth, you announced you were arrogant and dismissive of everyone else's point of view. I wouldn't want to go to any church you were teaching at even if it WAS the truth. I "defend the Faith" every day-and it's NOT by yelling.

Eventually, some of them will roll the dice, and get sick and tired of being sick and tired, and maybe conclude that things outside twi can't be WORSE than inside twi, then give it a try. Now, THERE'S something we should all be praying for- the deliverance of the poor children and teens sacrificed to twi who were taken captive at twi's will.

Allan, I'm going to take that at face value-that is, that you honestly believe that is what is happening here. So, having been here since before Y2K, I'll try to offer a bit more perspective-perhaps it will help. Nobody that I've seen is accusing twi of "every evil in the world". They're accusing them of "every evil that happens in twi." You see accusations of rape-not of people raped in Fortune 500 countries-but of people raped in twi, often on grounds by the head OF twi (under more than one president.) Nobody was told rape was an possibility in twi. You see accusations of child molestation-not of children molested in a Montessori school-but of children raped BY twi staff under twi auspices. Imagine the shock to find out that child molestation was available in twi. You see accusations of persecutions and witchhunts-not in Spain under Torquemada, but by twi leaders acting in their capacity as leaders in twi. Certainly, they didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition. Leaders lied and stole, deceived, squandered "God's money" on personal luxuries, diverted money FROM being used locally, isolated their followers from other Christians, family, and most other people-except when it was time to get another class together. Families were torn apart, people lived in fear that God would turn his back on them if they disobeyed, and they were lied to and told other Christians were worthless. Did I mention the rape and child molestation? If not for the people who spoke up BEFORE, many of those same leaders would STILL be in power. If not for the speaking WE do, many other people might go along to some meeting, and, next thing you know, be dragged into the same traps. I thank God I was spared all the severe damage, and only received some of the error and hate. No, some people are not angry and bitter. They are FURIOUS and filled with RAGE. Is it an appropriate response? Well, they're angry that people attacked the flock of God, molested children, raped the sisters, and said it was GOD'S WILL FOR THEM TO COOPERATE. Is that something worth getting furious over? If not, you have no heart. Some people need to heal in their own time. How can you ask someone to "just get over" things like that? Some will heal fast, some will heal slow. I think you can see the point now. Some people here believe there were no truths in twi. Many of us-some 60% of us here at the GSC, the place on the internet with the most concentrated hostility about twi- believe at least SOME of the things were correct, because we're still Christians. So we agree on either a few things or MANY things. Few agree it was right for leadership to rape, molest, plagiarize, etc. Those who believe there were truths point out that vpw and others LIED. They hid their sources and said that THEY were the ONLY ones who held that truth, knowing that this was a complete lie. They claimed it was a special connection from God to vpw that was the source of that truth was a number of true, Godly, Christian authors whose work he STOLE, slapped his name on, and dared to claim where originated by him. So, those TRUTHS were surrounded with a shield of lies. Those TRUTHS were not twi's truths. They were God's truths and were out in the world. When they were found, they COULD have been scattered abroad. Instead, vpw carefully gathered the information, repackaged it, then marketed it under his name, giving out that himself was some great one. Now, those TRUTHS were used as the packaging, and they were used to market a product- and that product was twi. The product line included paying money for classes, books, and programs. We were charged RETAIL at all times-despite the products all being produced "in-house", keeping costs down AND twi didn't pay taxes since it was a religion. The programs included the way corps- where people learned some good Bible stuff at some points and served as a manual labour workforce- and PAID CASH-MONEY to do the work! FURTHER, at all times, the leaders sat in the chief seats, were salaamed everywhere they went, and that wasn't ENOUGH for them. They got to enjoy luxuries of every kind-and THAT wasn't enough. They had to add rape and molestation on top of all that before they said it was enough. Then there are some who think that twi had NO truth-just lied and TOLD us that was truth. The lies, corruption, luxuries, and unreported FELONIES become even more offensive and obscene to them. If not more! There is a Japanese saying to the effect that "the other side ALSO has another side." Now, THERE'S a statement I can endorse wholeheartedly, although the "truths" I hold onto might be different than the "truths" you do. Or they might be the same-you may be surprised. It's times like this that I'm glad I never told twi everything I knew- it's information I'm VERY glad lcm never got his hands on. :D-->

Nope. Not a cop film.

"Twister", then?

For your personal life, that's fine. However, you insisted your POV iscorrect in public, which opened it up for discussion. Actually, by posting thatyou are right, you ARE trying to dissuade me-or Goey, in this case. I take it as a given that somewhere along the line, you learned SOMETHING SOMEWHERE SOMEHOW that goes beyond what was in the books. The books are insufficient to answer Goey's point. That does not mean Goey necessarily is correct-it means that if he is wrong, the proof must be ELSEWHERE. You assumed presumptiously. Please find the post where I said this was MY position. I'm pointing out that he has a legitimate position, and your supposed refutation did nothing of the kind. So, either present one or don't pretend you did. By not allowing you to sloppily parrot answers, and examine things, I'm doingmy job to encourage you to THINK. For all I know, you may go off, pray, read God's Word, and come back with an insight so brilliant it is irrefutable. I think you are capable of much better than your current performance, and I want to see it. If I was completely callous, I could just leave you there and throw insults. (See the 'twi teenager' post for examples of that.) Your belief is incorrect. One does not prove a NEGATIVE. I shall offer another example. LOOK! EVERYONE!!!! GREEN MONKEYS ARE FLYING OUT OF LCM'S KEISTER RIGHT NOW!!!!! YES, LOOK! THEY ARE! You don't believe me? PROVE THEY AREN'T. You can't prove their non-existence? Then you proved my point-they're flying out his @$$ right now! Was that simple enough an example, or were you able to follow it? You're still assuming-assuming HIS position is MY position. You can do a LOT better than this, Oldies. Turn on the old brain-cells, review the posts, think them thru, let them percolate, sleep on them, come back in a day, reread them, THEN answer them. THOSE answers should be a LOT more quality than your current posts. I believe you can do it.....

"Storm of the Century"? Tom, you were thinking of the "Get Smart" episode where he was looking for the Tequila Mockingbird, weren't you? :D-->

"I'm saying that if CBS was there, we would have 'made' Sports Spectacular!" "What-you wanna do it again?" "I'll be d*ed-a Kojak with a Kodak!" "Headquarters, we are still in pursuit of the black Lamborghini." "Car 42, you've been in pursuit for 2 hours. Another 5 minutes and you'll be in Arizona." "Yeah, and we're gonna STAY in pursuit until we catch them." "It didn't take us that long to catch DILLINGER." "Might be easier with your lights on." "Why advertise?"

I can't believe that the kids believe this AND IT DOESN'T SCARE THE HELL OUT OF THEM! We weeded out others so we can scrutinize YOU even more closely! To quote Asok (from "Dilbert"), HOLY MOTHER OF TOMATOES!! George Right- teenagers who are FINE with being SCRUTINIZED???? What the HECK happened to THEM in childhood that this is acceptable?

Yes, oldies! Prove irrefutably that you have the real deal! That will settle matters!

You know that what you call "speaking in tongues" is what was once called "speaking in tongues" because twi said they were the same. Period. You have never considered another position. Don't pretend you have seriously examined the implications. Whether or not I ever agree with Goey on something, he always "makes sense". Goey has posted things that "make sense", including his last post. Your inability to understand it makes it less sensible. You can also look at some other sources on the subject. Goey, would you be so kind as to post some links concerning the apologetics of cessationism? This will give Oldies the OPTION of reading them. (Not that I think he WILL, but I may be wrong. It is fair to give him the CHOICE.) Hm. So far, you've demonstrated an inability to read GOEY's post, and now an inability to read MY post explaining his post. You want him to prove a negative? You expected a book to prove all that?Again, if it is NONEXISTENT and you are doing something ELSE, then nobody can show you the original which is NONEXISTENT. Something NONEXISTENT does not EXIST. If it does not EXIST, no one can show it to you. This is NOT a difficult concept to understand. If someone sold you the skeleton of Enoch for $1000, and someone said "Adam died and his bones have been dust for thousands of years," and you replied "If this isn't the real one, then show me the real skeleton of Enoch", then they wouldnt be able to show you THAT, either. This would NOT prove your point. Negatives are not proven. Nor will you seriously consider his position, either. But that's your business. So, Goey is evil for saying you might have been taught wrongly? Or did you just feel like tossing out a platitude at that moment. "This is a Burger King town, and we know how burgers should be." My God, he was right-I feel better now! The Hanging Gardens of Babylon no longer exist. I can't show the real Hanging Gardens to you. The Pharos of Alexandria no longer exists. I can't show you the real Pharos.

Thinking someone is worthy of being actively murdered is one thing. Thinking someone is unworthy of being saved is a question of degree. It's a much less extreme version of the same thing. Thinking someone is unworthy of being saved, then going to "I don't see why God WOULD save you" is a tiny hop, and from thence to "therefore, God CAN'T save you" is another tiny hop. Stop and consider for a moment. twi never wakes up one morning and says "If you owe a credit card company $20, we're kicking you out." They move in little steps until they reach something truly absurd. The old "Romans 10:9" position wasn't wrong, but they moved from there in little (and not-little) steps until they can't see it because it's over the horizon.

As if twi is the sole arbiter of what that IS and is NOT. But that is so much of The Way's problem; they really do believe they are the sole arbiter and interpreter of God's word and will. And they inculcate this belief in their "disciples". That's why I'm not surprised at the responses Georgio got from the Way teens - because it's a heady thing to be plugged into the source for "all truth", to have a ready pat answer for all of life's ills and gray areas, to have access to the inner sanctum secrets. I simply hope they won't get hurt too badly before they decide God and the world are bigger than the Way International. I agree, Kevlar. The one thing I'm surprised about is that he found enough teenagers in twi currently to have a conversation with several. Perhaps it was just the presidential cabinet, online pretending to be teenagers. After all, we know some criminals pretend to be teenagers online...

It's not that big a jump from lcm's comments about how he'd "gladly kill" them if it wasn't illegal.

He's not playing-he IS that dense. It was a goal, he worked hard to reach it. It was a dream-he made it happen. Now anytime he encounters something that would threaten his dichotomic worldview, it might as well be written in Japanese or Chinese. Ever try to read a website written in a language you don't know- like Chinese or Japanese? It's the same thing.

Goey I think you're being kinda wishy washy.I think you'd have a stronger argument to just say SIT died with the apostles and what we do is counterfeit. Or, show us the genuine. Then at least we'd have something to compare our counterfeit tongues to. As the old VP saying goes, "with the coming of the greater, the lesser terminates." Show us the real deal, if you have it... :)--> This is neither "examining the sacred cow", this is "defending it." You supported Goey's statement AFTER he posted it. No-seems he wants to consider things carefully before forming an opinion. Seems he's too busy THINKING to slap down a blanket statement like that. If the cessation position is correct-which he is considering-then it is IMPOSSIBLE to produce the genuine ENTIRELY. So, he can only prove it doesn't exist by bring it out? {quote]Show us the real deal, if you have it.... He said he's unsure he has EVER seen the real deal. Didn't you read what he wrote before replying? Belle had a better approach:

Ok, since this IS predictable, AND SSDD, let's take a look at why EACH and EVERY comment is WRONG-but may convince a teenager lacking experience (which has long been a tactic of twi-fool the young and gullible.) twi tactic one: "First of all, it never happened." This was VERY successful before the internet, and they were able to bury the bodies and they STAYED buried. They are LESS successful now for that reason. They still work part of the time because some people are UNABLE or UNWILLING to look up the truth, thus enabling themselves to think twi isn't lying. Of course, there are also people who straight-out call all the people who come forth "liars", which helps twi in this goal. Belle has already said in reply: "I asked them how they could say they never had a policy on debt when people were kicked out for not selling their homes. They said I was lying-not one person was kicked out for that. When I gave them examples, they started backtracking and making excuses also." Of course, they have no idea that there's been MUCH evil-doing, and many acts that destroyed lives. MANY have come to light-how many have NOT? Belle already said "My ex always says that 'the ministry would be perfect if it weren't for people.' He says people aren't perfect and we can't chuck the whole ministry just because of one person. They justn don't see that it's wayyy more than pne person and that it's the whole system that's corrupt, evil and destructive. 'Tis sad, really." What the HECK does THAT mean? Belle already said "Then out of the other side of their mouth they say no one can argue with your experience when you're witnessing or speaking of TWI's 'blessings'. --> Belle: "Do they, then, think it's ok to plagiarize their school papers? They don't care that he was a thief and a liar???" Actually, Belle, it's part of the "Well, the ONLY place to get "Teh Tr00th" is twi" thinking. This is OBVIOUSLY wrong because A) LOTS of ex-twi teach most of the same thing B) if vpw ripped it off another source, THE OTHER SOURCE HAS THE TRUTH! Standard tactic. Anyone who says what we don't want to hear is LYING. TWI uses it all the time. Some other people also use it ALL THE TIME. Belle said "A liar just because you speak against TWI? Yeah, that makes sense. I see they still have the elitist attitude. Not surprising. As if they ALWAYS speak the truth, and ONLY they speak the truth. Whenever ANY prophet of the LORD warned against Israel or its leaders, this was almost certainly the SAME attitude used then. A prophet was REQUIRED to speak against the KING of ISRAEL AND ALL THE PEOPLE if they were wrong. Well, so much for the "do not be deceived by the 5 senses" thing. Apparently, twi's still big on jettisoning the people who are not financially well-off, and not attracting the broke. "God's Word is only for the middle class." lcm was caught saying that out loud a number of times, and MANY things were told by MANY people to the same effect. "Overweight because you left the way." So, all the fat people have been kicked out when I wasn't looking? Reminds me what one guy said about the young. "People in their 20s don't know anything. The ONE thing people in their 20s are good at, is looking better than people in their 30s and 40s." So, the same people, if STILL in twi in their 40s, have "middle-aged spread" to look forward to, 'and I don't care if you pray or don't pray'. Belle also pointed out "Looks can be decieving. You have more money than they do and most likely have 100x more savings and future security than they do unless they are kids of the almighty BOD or the president's lover. Did they say how much happier and more peaceful that you look? Did they notice that you look more content and satisfied with life? If you've gained weight since leaving TWI, it's because you no longer have to spend all your time jumping through their hoops and you're able to really enjoy your food and afford GOOD food now!" Truth is NOT determined by "how much do people want to hear this" Belle said "What happened to Rise and Expansion?? 'In order to keep an eye on people?' So they ADMIT that they micro-manage people's lives now? They admit they stick their nose where it doesn't belong? Well, that's a start, I guess. Now if they'll just tell people upfront that they're going to do that instead of waiting till after they've 'taken the class'. Belle: "Then HOW DID THEY REDUCE THEIR NUMBERS? BY LOTTERY?" Belle: "Change the subject when you are shown to be wrong. Yeppers! Those kids have learned very well from their parents' examples. Belle: "And nothing bad has EVER happened in their lives? How do they know that people who leave TWI have "streaks of bad luck"? Have they talked to people who have left TWI or are they just believing yet another set of lies fed to them by adults who are supposed to be teaching them truth? Besides that...what the H#ll are they doing using the word 'luck'????" To which I add If you are doing ANYTHING outside twi, to them it's a waste, even if you develop cold fusion and end world hunger. As if twi is the sole arbiter of what that IS and is NOT. They haven't been introduced to the concepts "hypocrisy" or "irony" yet. Hebrews 7:25. "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." So much for Hebrews 7:25. Amazing how they supposedly care about the Bible, but can miss something so unambiguous in the version they themselves use....

Allan's reply illustrates what was said on page 9 about him. People post specifics and how people destroyed their lives when they tried to prevent evil from being done, and all he hears is "bwah-bwah-BWAH-bwah" like in those Charlie Brown cartoons. You could hand him court documents asserting the evildoing of people in twi, individually and as a consortium, and he'd STILL defend them, and the next time we discussed it, he'd ask the SAME questions answered in the documents he already read. Frankly reminds me of some lyrics I heard once: From Don Henley's "If Dirt Were Dollars", for those interested.

"I'm saying that if CBS was there, we would have 'made' Sports Spectacular!" "What-you wanna do it again?" "I'll be d*ed-a Kojak with a Kodak!"

Welcome, Penguin. That image and many others are in the GSC Photo Gallery off the main GSC site. I recommend looking thru ALL the sections of the main site. Sometimes people ask for information that's been sitting there for YEARS (people who've been here years.) I'll bet there's at least a FEW documents there that will come as complete shocks to you. (There's the Schoenheit paper that says "the Bible says adultery is always wrong" which resulted in Schoenheit being ostracized and twi said readers of it would get possessed, the audio clip that someone died because a family member left twi, and so on.)

Since I'm pretty sure that was it, I offer this one.... ========== "Hold it! You'd never last five minutes in a New York subway!" *WHAM* *WHAM* "Now, THAT's how it's done!"

I'm partial to Obadiah 1:5 myself. "If thieves came to thee, if robbers by night, (how art thou cut off!) would they not have stolen till they had enough? If the grapegatherers came to thee, would they not leave some grapes?"