tonto

Sunesis, between this and what you said about boundaries and social rules, this helps in putting the pieces of my personal post-twi puzzle together. The first few years after leaving twi I felt an aching lonliness, even though I left with my husband and a couple of friends also made it out soon after. I was grieving the loss of old friends and felt I had to hide my past to any potential new friends...in part because I was afraid they would think I had been in a flower-selling kool-aid drinking cult. Also, I still had way-brain to a certain degree and didn't realize it really was a cult. These days I usually don't mention my cult past unless I trust a person...I'd rather not give an explanation for my square-peggedness...just keep 'em guessing. :D

I just checked the shipping status on Amazon and it said the shipping estimate is today, so no, haven't received it yet (but looking forward to reading it).

It's part of a collage in a memory box on the wall in my bedroom. It was an important part of my past so there it sits along with matchbooks, ticket stubs, pictures of pets and kids and such.

The summer before I went out wow I wrote to the book of the month club to tell them I couldn't complete my purchasing committment ( I think I still had four or five books to go) because I was going to be an ambassador for God. I didn't think they would let me off that easy, but I never heard back from them. They must have been too busy rolling on the floor laughing at me to bother.

It's west of Roswell in the boonies. At least when we went lead in '85 & '86, there were no dorms and the only building I recall was the staff house. The property backed up alongside a wilderness area, if I remember correctly. I can't remember whether or not we spent our first night in our own tents near the staff house or if we had to start hiking into the wilderness right away. In '85 we hitched in January and it was so cold that when we had completed our session (6 (?) nights), we got to sleep on the floor of the staff house for one night. I was never so grateful to be inside.

I remember thinking somebody had better achieve stardom before getting into twi, because once you got sucked into the pfal series/wow/corps vortex, you don't have enough time or money to achieve greatness. On the other hand, the celeb trotting and name dropping impressed dips like me because at the time I was impressed and wowed by it. Nika, I heard the same thing about Cher...but I heard the girl who witnessed to her was Patty A...widow of a member of a famous southern rock band. My only claim to fame...on my wow year in DC I gave my very own piffle book to Be++y Ford while she attempted to shop in Georgetown. My kind of witnessing...stick a book in someone's face and tell her it meant a lot to me and maybe it would mean something to her. As far as the showers at the ROA, after getting inside the shower tents we would have to undress in the open area and leave our clothes in lockers, little cubicle lockers, if I remember correctly. We could take/wear our towell to the showers but the curtains were flimsy and had gaps. I just remember being really uncomfortable, but it didn't seem to bother many of the ladies. Instead of realizing that the lack of privacy was weird, as my manner was, I blamed myself for being too uptight.

Thanks Paw and thanks Ralph. I'm so glad it's here so anyone can hear if they choose to listen. Thank you and may God continue to bless you both.

Yep, for me personally, I don't think I could have left without experiencing things the way we did. VP's many visits to our campus before his death, POP read during corps night then us being assigned to a place where the limb and area guys came back from the clergy meeting and told everything that happened. It was big red flags, red lights, blaring sirens for me...that's why I was so amazed everyone else didn't leave, but as Groucho pointed out... I know I'm guilty of thinking I was so cool for leaving earlier than some... ...sorry...idiocy on my part.

As I recall, I only did it once...windowpane (whatever that meant)...the guy I was dating and some friends went to see "Fantasia" at the movie theater. I really didn't know what was movie and what was the trip, but I remember the little winged horses were pulling at my face, making me smile. It was fun, but I figured if I did it again I'd be the type to try to fly out the window of a high rise, so no more for me.

Paw, Congratulations on 8 years for the cafe, and thank you for your sacrifice and unending work on this place (and thanks to the mods and others behind the scenes)! It's so easy to take this place for granted...I just assume it's going to be here when I want to pop in to see what's happening. I'm glad you're going to stay at it for at least another year. That said, you have to do what's right for you...there is no shame in that. Even though I had been out of twi for over thirteen years when you started this place, there was still plenty of unfinished business in my head and heart from my twi experience. I had a lot of anger bubbling just barely under the surface from the betrayal by vp & company, but thanks to many of the posters here, the pieces to most of the puzzle have been found and I'm not so pi$$ed anymore. Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing the rest of the new podcast (only heard a bit of it this morning on T-Bone's computer before I left for work...great stuff from Ralph). Thank you Paw.

rhino, I thought this was too good to be missed!

DWBH, I wasn't 9thC either but this has always been my favorite thread. Thanks, Nika, for sharing your travels with the cafe. NZ has been on my interest list for years and we hope to go there someday...until then, I'm loving your stories.

Wow...as much as twi could suck in the earlier years, it never ceases to amaze me the level of insanity it reached in the 90's. WG and Shifra and all...I'm glad you made it out and sorry for all the crap you and especially your kids had to endure.

Thanks for the links, WD...the cozy link with the response is a hoot! From Fascinating Womanhood: "Touch up your makeup, put a ribbon in your hair and be fresh looking. He has just been with a lot of work-weary people. Be a little gay and a little more interesting. His boring day may need a lift". From the spoof response link: "Forget about being a little gay. Be really, really gay! Meet him at the door with a joint, a bottle of frozen vodka, or both". Hahahahahahahahahahahahha!!! Yeppers, Fascinating Womanhood was pushed by twi at least as early as 1974, I believe. I am ashamed to say that I bought the book and the bull$hi! for a time. Luckily, my husband was more of a "Man of Steel and Velvet" (another book lauded in those days, but not nearly as much as FW). The push of "The Total Woman" came after FW. As much as I scoff at the manipulation suggested by those books, some of the ideas are just common courtesy and IMHO should be practiced by both partners...golden rule-type stuff. It's not always possible, but nice to walk in from work and not get bombarded with problems. When I first heard Roseanne Barr do standup, I remember thinking that she had read and probably tried FW. Look what happened to her...'nuff said.

Hope it was happy, GT and thanks for your work here at the cafe.

All the best to you Kit, and hope your day was happy.

This is something I wonder about quite often. I'll never know how our son would have turned out without TWI's influence on our lives...both good and bad. Our daughter was born post-twi (thank God almighty...there's more to that story, but another time...). On the plus side, our son seems to have a "nose" for finding good-hearted friends. I find it funny that in his group of friends there are at least two who had charismatic religious backgrounds, but no longer attend their churches. He has visited many different churches but hasn't found a good fit...seems to have inherited a distrust of organized religion, and I don't necessarily believe that's a bad thing. Most of the folks in our pre-corps twigs were good, decent people who were nothing but kind to our family. Even in the family corps, he had mostly good experiences...in part because he was only 4 to 6 years old at the time, and also thanks to Linda-something who was on staff in children's fellowship during our stay. She took a liking to our son and watched over him as much as she could. What I wonder about most is his being raised so frugally. When we left twi, so soon after being in-resident corps, we had no money. No money, no degrees, had never held very good jobs (how could we when we had to take off work so much because of this class and that seminar and whatever event HQ dreamed up?). Crap...when we moved back to Texas, that first year or two we qualified for him to get free lunches. Don't get me wrong, he was clean and dressed nice and had decent toys (I was a good garage sale shopper and his paternal grandparents helped out financially for awhile), but it was a struggle. I know lots of people have struggled much harder...but the simple fact is that had we not bought into the whole "Word Over the World-snow on the gaspumps-you're corps, dam nit" shineola, we could have provided him with more opportunity. By the time T-Bone and I were able to advance in our careers, he was pretty much grown. OK, the thing is that he's not very ambitious, and that's fine if it's because that's just him. I can't help but wonder if somewhere in his mind he doesn't think he deserves it, because of the frugality of his early years. He's a college graduate and works, but just enough to get by and travel. That doesn't sound too bad, actually, because he's doing what he wants to do. I just wonder how much of it is because of our dumb-a$$ mistakes. Hey, at least he's not wasting his time in a cult, so I know...I should quit my beetchin'. Sorry for the long rambling post...slow morning at work.

Yep, I can definately see Lithgow as Geer but I'm leaning towards Ron Popeil as JAL. I'd like to see what Tarnetino would do with the clergy meeting scene (thinking of Geer and guns...big guns), but Kubrik did the Shining, right? That location screams Rome City. Then there's always the title of that movie "Eyes Wide Shut"...pretty much describes many of us in our way daze.

Even if hearts are pure and intentions are honorable with this group (V2P2 and all the offshoots, for that matter), IMHO there needs to be full disclosure about V1P1 and twi. If the children and grandchildren don't know, Cl*pp and co. certainly do and need to come clean with the followers. If the care and concern is for the individual believers rather than the financial stability of the organization, they'll be honest. I keep thinking of this in terms of full disclosure...you know, like the cars that went through hurricanes and someone cleans them up and doesn't tell the potential buyer the history of the car...that's dishonest. edited for clarity...hopefully

A la, that clip sold me on Busey as Loy! Ha ha ha ha ha ha aaaahhhhh!!! What about Har ry Dean Sta nton as Don? Richard Sim mons as Rosie? Colonel Sanders as Uncle Harry?

WG, methinks he's referring to V2P2 and Rusty Truck Acres.

Well, technically, there's the element of time. From the time he said the sun was shining brightly, not a cloud in the sky to the time he opened his eyes and saw it was pitch-black, I think I must have figured that he had his eyes closed in fervent prayer for quite a while. These days, knowing what I know about his heavy drinking and general all-around lack character, I put his snow-storm right up there with his invention of the hook-shot.

Well Twinky, I finally voted. As far as the level, I checked entered corps but didn't graduate because we left on our "practicum" year after spending two consecutive years in-residence...during which vpw died and pop was read. Interesting time to be in, to say the least. Went WOW, did twig and branch with hubs, and "other" being way home coordinators. What did I do after I left twi? After the lease on the house was up, we moved to another state. Life became wonderful, but not without doubt and despair at times. Life is messy and uneven like that. I got a good job, but not right away...I had to go back to school first. Life isn't all bluebonnets and Bluebell ice cream...sometimes it's fireants and warm Shiner, but it's always good to be out of a cult.

Dooj, that was awesome! (And rhino, yours was not too shabby either!)

Mo, I am so glad to read you again...I've missed you and was just wondering about you last week. During my holiday break from work I've thought of all you guys at the cafe, but I needed a break. I chose to spend my time nesting with my immediate family and doing some serious vegging out in front of the tv or a book (Clapton). There's many folks who used to post that don't anymore whom I miss. There's a couple who are gone/banned whom I don't miss at all. Differences of opinion are wonderful... meanness and manipulation are not. I'm not sure I know who/what you're talking about excie, but I love reading your posts and can't imagine this place without you.