DrtyDzn

Its no surprise that Dr. would have contradicted himself as to whether tongues could be counterfieted. Here we have another Dr., Samarin, who put in a lot of effort studying glosalalia, which he distinguished from the phenomena of xenoglossia, and observed the same practice in both Christian and non-Christian settings. He determined that this was not even genuine language. His explanation of what it was sure fits well with what I observed going on in the ministry. I'm confident that he was studying the same thing we practiced in the ministry. I am willing to accept that he observed the same thing outside of a Christian setting. I'm not willing to conclude that, because it was outside of a Christian setting, there must have been devil spirits counterfieting a genuine article so well that the counterfiet could only be exposed by "revelation" that there were devil spirits involved. Of course, there is still the possibility that the speaking in tongues in the Bible was not glossalalia as we see practiced today. In fact there is some evidence that it should be labeled xenoglossia, although you run into problems in Corinthians then. I still enjoy doing it once in a while, if I feel moved to do so. I don't think it harms you any more than meditation or any other way of altering the consciousness as long as it is not taken to extremes. Everything in moderation. A time for everything in its season. Jerry

Down at the Ford plant, there is a string of frames with motors and partial shells rolling down the line. Everyone calls them cars even though they aren't fully assembled. Once that frame was placed on the assembly line, a simple part was given an identity. It becomes a car destined for Mrs. Jones. If it gets pulled off the line because of a defect, it changes its identity and becomes scrap and they assign a new frame with the identity of Mrs. Jones' car. When is the soul added to the baby? Or do you consider the soul to be the frame on which the rest of the baby is being built? Can it be called a baby without having a living soul?Can't God identify the fetus as being a baby even when it doesn't have a living soul? Can a person be in two places at one time? Jesus was in the grave, but he was also visiting those kept in captivity. Both his body and his soul are identified as him. So a body can be identified as a person without there being a living soul present. Maybe calling John a babe is s figure of speech, calling a part (The body), as if it were the whole. Jerry

From what I read of Samarin in those links, he says the speaking in tongues in the bible was xenoglossia and the practice of tongues that he studied was glossalalia. Its curious that he and others found no difference in the glossalalia practiced in the churches and that practiced in other non-christian cultures. VP taught that SIT could not be counterfieted, thats why it was the proof in the senses realm of the internal reality of being born again. But that would make it a practice unique to Chritianity. We could have been practicing an innate ability of the human mind all along thinking we were so special. Jerry

[quote name='T-Bone' date='Jul 8 2006, 11:59 AM' post='251144'] T-Bone post #47 June 26 2006 9:19 PM: "William Samarin, professor of anthropology and linguistics at the University of Toronto, wrote the first comprehensive book-length study of speaking in tongues [Tongues of Men and Angels, New York: Macmillan, 1972]. In this work he takes Christian charismatic glossolalia – the common contemporary practice of speaking in unknown and unintelligible speech, which Samarin distinguishes from what he calls xenoglossia [the miraculous gift of tongues in which the speaker communicates in an unlearned human language] – and the "tongues" of other religions [including healers, occultists, and shamans] and compares them with known human languages. He concludes from his linguistic analysis that "glossolalia is a perfectly human, perfectly normal [albeit anomalous] phenomenon" Did Samarin have any examples of xenoglossia that he studied in the book? Does he consider xenoglossia to still be speaking in tongues? Jerry

What kind of chhoice was available back then? Did they even have a reliable way to abort a pregnancy? Maybe there were home brewed remedies that could be ingested that were supposed to terminate a pregnancy, but I think a medical procedure would have been pretty risky. That would explain why there is no clear opinion in the word that applies to todays dilema on abortion. Jerry

I'm sure you're right, Garth. Sending viruses and spam to people who eat meat, and oppose PETA would certainly win me over to vegetarianism, lol! Seriously, (and remember, I am in agreement with you, I eat meat!) my wife, PETA volunteer and activist, and the people that are her fellow activists are compassionate, rational, and kind. And they know that I eat meat. And my wife has not, nor been asked, to do anything illegal to further her beliefs in animal rights. We both know there are people in every organization who take things to extreme.

My wife is vegan; my daughter is ovo-lacto vegetarian. My son and I eat meat. Regardless of whether or not we agree, we listen to each other, and respect each other's opinons. You know that old saying, "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it." PETA does have a place on their web site where you can give your opinions, comments, and ask questions. http://www.peta.org/about/contact.asp You can also find the link right on their front page at www.peta.org. Scroll down to the blue box marked "resources" and you will find the link "contact PETA."

Back in the seventies I worked for a candlemaker who owned a little shop. Even ran a booth at our State Fair one year making candles. Its an easily learned process, as any boo boos can be melted again. I think the shop owner bought directly from a petroleum company. The better the grade of wax, the higher the melting point. Start out with white wax and learn how it hardens. Once you can produce a good candle, you can start to learn about dyes. Scents are pretty straightforward, but necessary because everyone always smells it when looking at it. If you try your hand at it and run into a snag, let me know. Jerry Elger

I got this in an e-mail just now. How YOU can help: To drop off and pick up animals to tranport. Or if you have supplies, contact: hurricane@bestfriends.org or call 435-644-2001 x398 for faster assistance. HSUS UPDATE: We are encouraging people to fill out the volunteer application on our web site at http://www.hsus.org . Look under "How You Can Help" and click "want to volunteer." We are processing these applications daily and contacting folks with information. The Petfinder.com database for helping animals affected by Hurricane Katrina is now online: Animal Emergency Response Network http://disaster.petfinder.com/emergency/ Helping Companion Animal Victims and their Caretakers During Disasters Here is what it includes: My pets need help: I want to foster or volunteer: I have FOUND a pet: Show me pets that are LOST I am a RESCUE WORKER: I need to SEARCH the databases For Katrina Animals Pets Rescue Resources with phone hotlines, shelters, and news, see: http://catsinthenews.blogspot.com or http://catsinthenews.blogspot.com/2005/09/...-resources.html Contact Organizations: Organization Contact Phone/ Name: ** LSU School of Veterinary Medicine: 225-578-9900 (http://www.vetmed.lsu.edu) Katrina@ldaf.louisiana.gov ** LVMA Louisiana Veterinary Medical Association: 1-800-524-2996 (http://www.lvma.org) lvma@pncpa.com ** Humane Society of the United States (HSUS): (http://www.hsus.org) disaster@hsus.org ** SPCA of New Orleans area: Laura 434-589-1499 Email:info@la-spca.org ** Northwest Louisiana Humane Society: Nancy 318-219-7387504-366-8972 ** Humane Society of Monroe: Danine 318-387-9553 ** Humane Society of Central Louisiana: 318-641-0458 Email: HumaneSocCenla@aol.com or Rhattie1960@aol.com or kbulloth@yahoo.com To foster, contact Lael Zickrick at laz@direcway.com ** Caddo Commission Animal Services.: Anita Mills 318-222-6624 ** Lafayette Parish Animal Control: 337-291-5644 ** Noah's Wish Foundation: Teri/Roger 530-622-9313 Email: Terricrisp@msn.com and info@noahswish.org ** Memphis Shelby County Humane Society: 901-276-7770 (http://www.memphishumane.org) ** Project Starfish - Helping pets displaced by Hurricane Katrina: Email: info@ProjectStarfish.org Contact information for Animal Rescue Organizations In Mississippi: ** Mississippi Alliance 228-216-7729 ** Gulf Coast SPCA 228-872-5659 Email: GulfCoastSPCA@yahoo.com Contact information for Animal Rescue Organizations In Alabama ** Greater Birmingham Humane Society Jackie/ Melissa 205-290-0055 205-682-8894 Email: info@gbhs.org Contact information for Red Cross in Louisiana with Shelter that allows pets: ** NW Louisiana Chapter Red Cross Michelle Davidson 318-865-9545 ** Best Friends Animal Society -www.bestfriends.org/donate . Also animals lost in the area affected by Katrina can be reported at email: hurricane@bestfriends.org or 435-644-3965 x 4455 ** ASPCA To make a donation to our Disaster Relief Fund, please call (866) 275-3923. You can also make a secure online donation at ASPCA.org. Donating Goods: If you are interested in donating goods to disaster-area shelters, please email outreach@aspca.org. Be sure to provide as many details as possible about your donation, and a way you can be contacted. TO FOSTER ** 1-800-Save-A-Pet.com is compiling a fostering list to share with ASPCA and animal disaster groups on the ground. Katrina Animal Foster Home Sign-up We have offered to put together a database of foster homes for the ASPCA disaster teams and other organizations working on the front lines, and they have accepted our offer. If you live outside of the region affected by the hurricane, you are still welcome and encouraged to sign up. Please know, though, that you will be expected to provide a way to transport the pet(s) to you. If you are asked to travel to the region to pick up your foster pet(s), you will be responsible for all travel costs, arrangements, and accommodations during your trip. URL BELOW (be sure to copy & paste BOTH lines together): http://savinglives.1-800-save-a-pet.com/si...N_USER_REQUESTS ** http://www.puppymillrescue.com/ click on the Katrina info which will take you to a foster application.. This is the tool we will use to get your offer to the people in the trenches!!!! ** To apply to FOSTER A Dog or Cat go to: http://www.katrinafoundpets.com/app.htm Fill out the foster form. Humane Society of Central Louisiana: Email: Lael Zickrick at laz@direcway.com

But the fact that he didn't drop dead on the spot, seems to imply that the kind of death refered to isn't what we commonly think of as physical death. That would solve a lot of the confusion as to how carnivores could have survived before the fall and how other forms of death could have been present before Adam sinned. Jerry

Well, I suppose if Doc can have his different forms of life (growth life, soul life, spiritual life), then you can have your forms of different death (cellular death, soul death, spiritual death. All you gotta do now is explain what kind of death you think came with sin. I think Doc would opt for spiritual life,no? Jerry

I'm wondering if life can exist independant of death anyway. How can our biological systems function if cells never died? Even the food we eat has to be a product of something that died. Just taking this to its logical conclusion if we are going to accept that there was a time when death was not present due to no sin. Jerry

Hi Ex70s! Actually, I'm DrtyDzn's wife, and your post has been weighing heavily on my mind, because you sound like you're married to me! Jerry does all the cooking, and the dishes, while I'm happily in front of the computer seeing how many points I can rack up in Zuma. But the big difference between our marriages is that my husband is happy, and you are not. So, I asked him, "Why are you so happy married to a lazy slug like me? Why don't you want to leave me?" And while I was hoping for a tribute to my great beauty, or an acknowledgement of my clever wit, he said, "Ah! Happiness lies within, grasshopper!" You can't change your wife, but maybe you can change the way you think of her. So, ok! Now, you are doing all the cooking, cleaning, and keeping a quiet house. You divorce your wife, and you will still be doing all the cooking, and cleaning. Its been a long time since I've been single, but I do have single friends, and they tell me the worse thing about being single is the quiet. Its a lonely quiet. My parents divorced when my siblings and I were your sons age. It was, and still is horrible for all of us. My parents have been divorced for 32 years now. I dunno, maybe if you divorce your wife, your problems will be gone, your sons will be fine, and you'll live happily ever after. But I doubt it. If you want to talk to Jerry, feel free to e-mail him. He's a good guy, nonjudgemental, and he's put up with me, your wife's twin! Wish you all the best! Lots of love! Margie

This idea of satan reminds me of the image of having an angel whispering in one ear and a devil whispering in the other.

The future is now. Why not exposit this "new" doctrine? Jerry

Why would Jesus Christ be preaching a parable about the seed and being born again if people could not even have it until Pentecost?Maybe the seed spoken of in the parables aren't the same thing as the incorruptible seed of 1st Peter. Jerry

Throw in here that Jesus Christ is the word of God. We aren't just talking about the words, plural, of God found in the Bible, but THE word of God, by which all things are made and sustained. Jerry

Didn't Paul do both? Pray with his understanding and pray with the spirit?Maybe there is a balance that needs to be reached. Jerry

Seems to me that when Jesus Christ walked the earth he ran into plenty seeking a sign. If memory serves, He didn't pander to their desires, and even reserved the real meaty truth for those who trusted Him. In other words, even He didn't try to prove anything to the skeptics. Jerry

There have been given a number of answers to your question. We each judge which one we deem to be correct. But in the end it will be God who reveals the truth. For now we see as through a glass darkly. Jerry

I don't know if this is analyzing at all. I'd think of it more as looking at the results (fruit) of a practice to determine if it holds very much truth. I know 'mannies' very rarely did anything for me, but I found SIT fun. Jerry

I've got nothing against simple analysis, but overanalysis can become an end unto itself. It doesn't seem to be a very appealing existence to me. To each his own, I guess. Jerry

I get the feeling that if a man were raised from the dead by someone speaking in tongues it would not be enough "proof" for you all. You would have to analyze that also.

Someone else thought they had the victory that day. But they were in for a rude awakening three days latter. Jerry