johniam

Hey Cub fans. Give up yet?

Pirate: quote:I've been to St. Louis in July and I ain't goin' there again. In 1843 Charles Dickens came to STL. When someone asked him later what he thought of STL, all he could say was, "It was hot!" In 1880 the great great grandpa of our current president bought the property in Kennebunkport, ME at which the present day Bush family often vacations just so he'd have somewhere to go to escape STL, where he lived at the time, during the summer. It's going to be in the 90's this week again. Up in MI where I moved here from 4 yrs ago there are plenty of 90 plus days, but you don't need AC if you have a few well placed oscillating fans. Here? Forget it. It's just brutal, although STL Cardinals pitcher Woody Williams says it isn't anything compared to Houston.

quote: I also have noticed that liar hasn`t had the courage to come back and read what we wrote or even engage us in a dialog...I can only imagine how *fair* that he would be if anyone were silly enough to take him up on his stupid offer....he was just in a ....ing contest... I talked to LLPOF on Saturday. LLPOF has to have all posts approved by moderators. LLPOF doesn't like that so says probably no more posts. Hey, Rascal. I can see the wheels turning in your head. LLPOF and Johniam KNOW each other!!! GSC fits like a hand in a glove, doesn't it?

God? No. Fellowship? Definitely depends. I don't need other people around to know God loves me. I still pray in the name of Jesus Christ as before, but now that I have a family I make decisions accordingly. I didn't like church when I was a kid and my kids don't all like it and I'm not going to drag them to fellowship and make them feel like .... just because they don't like it now. Doing that would guarantee they'd never like it. I guess there's some things that I'd never again take from any leader.

I still have a problem with the word cult. I think it's a slur. quote:I used to tell people about my experience after I left in 92. Then, I stopped for several years talking about it. I realized how STRANGE I must have sounded by the astonished looks on their faces and vertually NO comments were made by them, just blank stares. and.. I enjoy seeing the look on peoples face when I tell them I was in a cult. They don't know what to say to you, just give you a dumb stare and change the subject. and... I worked on Staff at twi headquarters for 5 years. I have 7 more years until I don't have to put that job on my resume. So I have to lie about them when I am in a job interview. Kinda sucks. The hardest part is explaining my salary I made there ($683 per month plus living expenses). I ask for wayyyyyyy more than that obviously. But the question does come up. I have to go in BS mode sometimes, and I hate that. This is so ironic! In a country that prides itself on being the land of the free and the champion of human rights, it is blatantly hypocritical for people to mindlessly respond like the quotes say just because we used to be in an unpopular religious group. Add to that the fact that the catholic church has sex scandals and they're not a "cult". I like Sudo's approach of saying "we met in a bible fellowship". If people want to know more than that then THEY'RE the pushy ones.

Lawyer, lawyer: I didn't believe all those stories either at first, but I do now. Bottom line: you and I weren't there; we don't really know what happened and what didn't happen. We believe what we believe because of what we're told. As you know, I've been getting fellowship, tapes, etc. from John Hendricks' offshoot, CRF for awhile. On a tape a couple years ago he said the things people are saying about Dr. Wierwille are true. He didn't spell out what "the things" were, but later that year at his advanced class he, without naming names, said he thought the number one reason the ministry fell was because of the mistreatment of people especially in the sexual category; the many marriages that were ruined because of top leadership teaching that adultery is OK if you're spiritual enough to handle it; the 'from birth to the corps' autobiographies which first year in residence corps were required to write only used to scan which women would be "ripe" to hit on. Stuff like that. On the surface, John Hendricks had nothing to gain by revealing this info. Sure, he could have been trying to cover his butt, but his offshoot is already "guilty by association" to many exwafers just because he was taught by VPW, and by saying this to his own "flock" he risked a substantial drop in numbers. He's not stupid; he knows people are going to be on the internet and I think he was just trying to be honest. I don't really expect you to take this at face value, but for the above stated reasons, I believe VPW DID indulge himself. What I don't believe is that everything he did is suspect. Quite a few here at GSC seem to believe this way: VPW did so and so, therefore everything he did is evil and so is anybody who defends him a little. That one dimensional thinking gets old fast for me. GSC is really not a good place to talk up VPW and PFAL. When you first started posting I seriously thought you were either Craig, or a blind follower. That scripture in 2 Cor. 5 about receiving the things done in the body whether it be good or bad? LCM did a teaching in June of '95 where he used that verse to build fear in anybody who was thinking of leaving (many were). He taught that if you weren't in the household you were going to get a really bad reproof session right after the gathering and no rewards. He was really a jerk. He was also not consistent with PFAL. Corinthians is a reproof epistle, yes, but 2 cor. was written to soften the blow of 1 cor. right? Oops. In 1 Cor. 3:12-15 it says if any work be burned he shall suffer loss but still be saved, so that verse in 2 cor can't be intended any harsher than that. Sure, those works include how people post here, but we all know that. Most of these people come here to get away from the way. They could've been nicer to you, but they at least read what you posted.

I look at anger in 2 basic ways: 1) Everybody gets angry. It has to come out. If two angry people target each other at any time, the chances increase that one will escalate it from verbal to physical or try to bait the other into doing it first. Sometimes one has to be the "bigger person" and get the hell out of there for awhile. 2) It IS possible for persons to become "furious and angry men (persons)" Prov. 22:24 who according to the next verse can cause those around them to take on their anger trait and get a "snare to their soul". I worked for a woman who was the first type, but not the second. She was my boss and every so often she'd ream whomever was in her path for whatever it was. But once she got it out, it was gone without a trace. She reamed me pretty good once, but overall we got along fine. I suppose an anger management program (never been in one) will give good pointers on how to avoid (prolong) the time when anger would escalate and give the conflict a better chance to die off, but if one or both of the parties involved are the second type, people who have a chronic problem with anger everywhere they go, then resolution becomes much more difficult.

The Amalekites of the OT were like that. That's why God wanted them destroyed. "Hewed in pieces before the Lord" doesn't quite sound so harsh anymore. I agree with def that anybody is potentially capable of becoming sick like that.

Littlehawk: quote: bit axe chopping wood. I read Ty Cobb's autobiography (great read) and he says Cy Young was a rail splitter before he played baseball and that's where his arm strength came from. Simon: During rained out Tiger games they will occasionally show game 7 of the '68 series. I was in Jr high when it happened and that game was on during the day, so I only got to see the 9th inning, but Mr. Lolich was awesome that day. 2 days rest, good movement on his fast ball, in the Cards half of the 6th inning it was still scoreless and Brock and Flood were on base and without throwing a pitch he got both of them out. They didn't even score on him until one out in the 9th. He may never be a hall of famer, but he sure beat one (Gibson) when he had to. Yeah, he was/is kinda rotund all right. He currently runs a doughnut shop.

Lindy: It's easy. God does GOOD things; the devil does BAD things. Can you find anything good in the outcome(s) from Gen. 4? I can't. quote:can we confirm that mark as meaning he made him black? lol What are you talking about? You think this was how God made black people, or does your use of the word 'black' mean spiritual darkness? Neither applies to my point.

Evan: No. Eph is a prayer and 1 tim isn't. Also notice in Eph he bows to the Father of JC, not JC.

Evan: In 1Tim 1"12 he wasn't praying, he was writing.

Plus if "the Lord" who set a mark on Cain is God, why would God want him alive? All he did was cause trouble. Five generations after Cain this guy named Lamech killed 2 people and bragged of his virtue comparing himself to his great, great, great grandpa Cain. Can't be God! But if the "Lord" in that verse is the devil, then the devil set a mark on his primary offspring who ruled over many. Where else does THAT happen?

Sirg: Sounds kinda like Freud's superego.

Lotta interesting stuff in this chapter. "The Lord" said to Cain, "And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him." That word desire is interesting. Only used 3 places in the OT. In Gen. 3:16 where God says the original to Eve which is reversed to Cain, and once in Song of Solomon and we all know what THAT book is about. Hmm. But the devil deceives people primarily by disguising himself as God. Case in point: the current TWI leadership. They glorify "God" don't they? That's what they SAY.

I'll throw another monkey in the wrench. In the OT there are times when the devil is called the Lord. 1 Sam. 24:1 says the Lord; while 1 Chron. 21:1 says Satan. Same exact event! If that happened once it could have happened again. My first candidate is in Gen. 4. Cain's offering was not respected; he was bummed. Between Gen. 4:6-16 there are several references to the Lord, but is it God or the devil? If all those references are God, why would God bait Cain into murdering his brother? That doesn't sound like God to me. Verses 9-12 could very well be God, but not the others. As the serpent, the devil deceived Eve with a disguise. Why not here with Cain? The reason Cain's offering was not respected is because he didn't put his whole heart into the offering. It says "in process of time it came to pass" ; in other words when it was convenient for Cain he just threw something together. Abel gave the firstlings of his flock; he gave his best. Could Cain have gotten honest and put forth a better effort the next time? Sure. But the devil found an inadvertent pawn who led to other pawns who ultimately caused every imagination of the heart of man to be only evil continually.

TWI taught that the real Jews will resurface after the gathering together. If you read the OT, the bloodline was kept basically pure for a good while. Then during the reign of Solomon's son, Rehoboam, the kingdom split: 10 tribes separated themselves, called themselves Israel, and had Samaria as their capital city. The remaining tribes, Judah and Benjamin, were called Judah, and kept Jerusalem as their capital city. 250 or so years later the Assyrians conquered Israel (10 separated tribes) and scattered them all over their empire. THAT'S when the bloodline got f*cked up. Later when Judah and Benjamin returned from the 70 yrs in Babylon Ezra made sure any bloodline contamination that took place during those 70 yrs was identified and dealt with. So by the time of Christ only 2 of the 12 original tribes had their bloodline intact. That's why the Samaritans and the Gallileans were "lesser" Jews than the Judeans. That's why being of the tribe of Benjamin was one of Paul's "bragging rights" in Phil. 3. And 2,000 yrs later some want me to believe that anybody who calls themself a Jew is special to God? Koestler didn't hate Jews; he thought Hitler was basically an idiot. He just felt it nec essary to call it like he saw it.

Sirguessalot: quote:So it can be said that all spirits are good. ALL of them. What makes it a devil spirit is when a good spirit is unhealthy or broken. Same spirit, its just a diseased leaf on the tree of life. To cast the devil out of it, is to make the spirit whole again. Then who is the devil? And what is Rev.20:10 all about?

Evan: Where does the scripture endorse praying to Jesus?

ckeer: Just a guess. 'And we bid you goodnight' was on their first live album and they still do it live occasionally. I'll be seeing them on the 23rd for the first time since 1976. Their last stop on this year's tour is in your area I think on 8/19. Their website has all the info from the tour including set lists. Not having Jerry anymore does not seem to affect their choice of songs to perform at all. I still love their music and you don't have to be stoned and/or possessed to do so. I think people have to acquire a taste for their music but that's about it.

Ozgirl: quote:JWs don't believe in the Trinity (and I still don't) so they view Jehovah (God) as higher than Jesus, his Son, and worship God first. They view any form of Jesus-worship as creature-worship, because Jesus was created by God. That's exactly how TWI taught us as to why JC is not God. Instead of calling it creature worship they flat out call it idolatry.

VPW elaborated on the sex pervert part. Right before he said that he said it meant that he had a "physical weakness" for women. Wait a minute. What exactly does that mean? Did he fight like a girl? No. It seems to vaguely suggest that his unrestrained appetite was a "physical" problem so it must be OK. LIGHT NING STRIKES ME A GA IN!

Speaking of umpire's judgement, at one time it was in the rules that if, in the umpire's judgement, the batter didn't try hard enough to get out of the way of a pitched ball then he couldn't take his base even if the ball hit him. But the last time I remember that happening was in 1971 during the NLCS (SF/Pitt). Giants 3rd baseman Dick Deitz was the batter. Is that even still in the rules? Fernando Vina was not even subtle in his leaning into pitched balls when he played for the Cardinals. Any of you guys remember an umpire ruling that way recently?

Exc: quote: johnnyam, in general children are not innocent, they inexperienced and relatively helpless, but not innocent what do you mean ? sorry you might have explained it already. i'm replying before i finish reading all the posts Some here say there is no God just because children got killed in the flood and in wars and stuff. My post was countering that.

PMosh: quoteI believe that the verse which all of this stuff ended up being based on referenced babies specifically, at least those young enough to drink milk from their mothers. While as a Christian you believe that people are born in sin, do you feel that it would ever be justified to mass-murder babies? I don't think you do, and that's more of what I am focused on than the verse where it talked about killing kids for calling a priest "baldy." That thing with the she bears is covered in one of the orientalisms books. It was adults making fun of Elijah for worshipping God and the bears scared them only. Also, war is not murder. It is an extreme resort to solving diplomatic relations which actually works for the winner. If anyone is to be held accountable for war it's the Hitlers and Pol Pots and Sadaams who were already murdering and needed to be stopped. You're right. We don't think alike and a discussion can only go so far.