johniam

Christopher Walken as LCM and Tyne Daly as Donna. Kane Hodder as RFR (with the mask off). Joe Pesci as Harv P. John Kerry as Don W. (no speaking lines, just nodding his head) and Christian Slater as his 'speaking double'.

quote:If it was well thought out, well planed and at a location that would handle a large amount of people if needed. There IS such a meeting which meets all the above criteria: the gathering together. Other than that, no way!

JF: quote:Comparing VPW to Jesus is just plain wrong not to mention offensive questions.... 1) You admit it's possible to be right and offensive at the same time? 2) Who says it's "just plain wrong"? I can compare anything I want with anything I want; that's called THINKING! Besides, I wasn't comparing VPW to Jesus, I was comparing Jesus to VPW in the context of past impact slanted toward ridiculing Garth's narrow minded prejudices which you appear to share.

Most of us have probably seen the episode where the stooges are supposed to be plumbers in that house and they connect water pipes into electrical pipes and finally the exasperated cook says "you want water? Turn on ANYTHING, you'll get it." In TWI it would be "you want devil spirits? Think for yourself about ANYTHING, you'll get 'em."

Whew! A lot to take in all right. That guy twists a lot of what VPW says. For instance, on page 47 he quotes VPW asking "How can God who is spirit, communicate with man, who is flesh?" and cites it as a logical fallacy of "begging the question" by definition, or something like that. Then on pages 67 and 68 (is that a song by Chicago?) he asks "If spirit cannot conmmunicate with flesh, can flesh communicate with spirit? If not..." so he does the same thing he accuses VPW of doing. Then a page or 2 later he says VPW thinks the gift of holy spirit is a "part of God". I don't recall VPW saying that. Part of the believer, yes. Part of God, no. That guy has some rigid laws of logic of his own.

Garth: quote:Johniam, it is you who is losing the context here. My posts in response to your 'peace in your life' tripe, was dealing with your attempt to turn my targeting a well known TWI snot nosed attitude of 'I am a Son of God w/All Power', and calling it for what it was ... into a 'guilt trip'. We here at the Greasespot Cafe often do that to twisted TWI dogmas and VPW's rancid life: call them for what they are. If *you* want to take that and turn it into a guilt trip, well then, maybe your long buried conscience is trying to tell you something, y'think? You're just being a judgemental jerk. quote: And simply trying to dodge the issue by saying that 'you are just ....ed off at what I said on other threads' doesn't help your case either. OK 'councellor', by the way, what is my "case number"? quote: Face it chief. You, Smikeol, and Oldies need to realize that the dirty old codger (VPW) is long gone, and his song-and-dance is history. If it's "history" then why does it keep coming back up in the present tense? Is Jesus "history" too?

I've never accepted the 'end justifies the means' argument for anything. Lot of large scale abuse stems from that (name your dictator). I distrusted the mainstream media before TWI; still do. They called us a cult because of JC ist nicht Gott, but wait a minute. Jews and Muslims don't believe Jesus is God, yet somehow THEY aren't cults now are they? The media lied about us and slandered us non stop. They were acting as cowards, because TWI wasn't big enough to stop them. They had no way of knowing what was going on in TWI. They were/are outsiders bullying us. To say that their tactics were justified because of what has come out in the open in recent years is to say that the end justifies the means. Doesn't! To answer the question posed by the thread, picture yourself with your fellowship. You're blessed going out witnessing and all of a sudden you're being ganged up on by a bunch of vicious witch hunters who outnumber you, surround you, interrupt you, basically make you feel like .......all in the name of their trinity god. Being under fire I felt damned intimidated, but over time it just made me real angry! As one poster stated...more resolved, more committed. Sure I believed I was in a spiritual fight. The only thing that's changed now is TWI has no more credibility. Trusting TWI on spiritual matters is like trusting the 3 stooges to fix your plumbing IMO. But I still believe we have a spiritual adversary and I still distrust the mainstream media.

Is 'Born again to serve' going to be available???

That guy came to the U. of Mo. at Columbia, Mo. in 1978 when I lived there. He went near the student union and said that blue jeans and back packs were intrinsically evil. What a flake! Those students did NOT like him.

Garth: quote:P.S., oh, and spare me the TWI-approved 'lack of peace' tripe please. I'm doing just dandy in the peace dept., thank you very much; its just that I don't think that 'having peace in my life' has to include blithely whitewashing Der Wierwille's reputation, and goosestepping to his Neo-nazi swill. Let me get this straight. You're still ....ed at me for stuff I posted on other threads, and you throw them in my face out of context, and you call this having peace? Interesting.

I was told that JS's paper named names and read like a tabloid. Not true; it's just a word study on adultery slanted that there is no time period or administration where it was /is OK with God to do this. Sounded reasonable to me.

As a TC they told us in the early 80's that if someone really wanted it done they'd accomodate them, but I never heard of anyone who actually did it. Besides, sooner or later they would hear Tom Burke's song making fun of water baptism. I dunno.

Once shortly after he was installed as pres he was talking about cartoons and how the "new" ones were so devilish. "I saw one last week where the guy had a devil spirit and made this other guy's rear end fall off. Good LORD!!! Whatever happened to Huckleberry Hound and Deputy Dawg???" Words to live by.

Garth: quote:Johniam, quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I know a believer who got pulled over by a cop and when the cop came to his window he said, "Hey, man. I'm a son of God!" Cop says, "I don't care if you're a son of a bitch; I need to see your license and registration!" But the guy did NOT get a ticket. Guess you had to be there. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gee, so *that* is one of the main things about being a son of God w/ all power is good for: not getting a speeding/traffic ticket even if/when you deserve it? ... Been there, seen that, threw up all over the Takit t-shirt. I wonder if that was what was taught in TWI's prison outreach: how to beat the rap with PFAL! OK Mr. Wizard, where in that first paragraph do you document that the guy deserved to get any kind of ticket? That was OBVIOUSLY intended to be light hearted and just the fact that you come back with this vomit inducing guilt trip shows how much peace you have in YOUR life. No thanks.

Somewhere '94/'95 ish he said (in the context of the purges) "This is going to be done right if I have to coordinate every twig from HQ!"

Imbus: So you think Jesus was just a glorified cult leader like the liberals and other so called "educated" do? I think He is everything the bible says he is and more. Consider that your driver's license was written by humans, too, yet it has authority. It verifies who you are; acceptable in many situations. Just because the bible was written by humans doesn't mean it has no authority. The bible verifies who you are in Christ, also acceptible in many situations. It may not have value to you anymore, but it does to me. If I get pulled over by a cop, I'll try my driver's license first, but IMO more situations are helped by knowing God than by having a driver's license. I know a believer who got pulled over by a cop and when the cop came to his window he said, "Hey, man. I'm a son of God!" Cop says, "I don't care if you're a son of a bitch; I need to see your license and registration!" But the guy did NOT get a ticket. Guess you had to be there.

Refiner: quote:I percieve that the recurring term "greasespots" is somehow connected to a failed prediction. Correct? Sort of. Not a end times kind of prediction. This loud mouth guy that used to be the way prez said if you ever leave the "household of God" you'll be a greasespot by midnight. Like ex said, here we are!!! Need an oil change?

Pfalbmo: The names aren't familiar, but I'll ask around. I was here originally between '79 and '85, moved back to MI, then moved back here 4 yrs ago, so I don't know everybody who's been here, but give me a week, OK?

It takes a holler to raise a child, I guess.

Tom: quote: Do any of those people ever speak any negatives about veepee and TWI? (just wondering)... TWI, but not VP. STL believers all left at once in '89. Richard Thomas was the area cordo and he had it out with LCM and HA and that loyalty oath letter was the last straw for them. Then 2 yrs later some of the fellowships parted ways with RT, joining with John Hendricks. These are the people I fellowship with. JH has been open that "the things people are saying about VPW are true". He doesn't say that a lot, but a lot of his people are ex TWI so he has to address it and his foundational class is very similar to PFAL. RT still heads up the CG faction here. Those guys generally don't want to talk about VPW OR TWI. Oakspear: quote:What is the purpose of this fellowship? I'm sure that it's different than the purpose of GS Yeah, I mentioned the fellowship to support that I don't have to come on GSC to talk about VP or PFAL.

Oakspear: I was just thinking the last couple days about this. One of the last conclusions reached in Karl K's book is that, to him, there was never a time when you could say "I do not believe!" in TWI. Not appropriate. Sends 'red flags' all over the place. Similarly (but not identically), there is never, or rarely a time on GSC when it's OK to praise VPW or PFAL. And it's not collusion: there is no "inner circle" of GSC which communicates secretly and strategizes how to deal with 'problem posters'. It's all pretty much out in the open; people just post as inspired. Yet, if you do praise VPW and PFAL, better wear asbestos underwear. I go to a fellowship here in STL which is connected to roughly 60 adults, many of whom are ex TWI. I can speak positively of VPW and PFAL without incident with those people. In lieu of the above, I guess it's not unreasonable for a website such as this to have an unwritten policy of..."just don't use those words around me!" I get teed off when posters imply that I am evil or screwed up just because I still value some things from TWI, and I think some trigger happy people drive off new GSers, but... quote:My point is that Grease Spot IS the equal time, balancing out what TWI presents. Why is it that this is so tough to understand? Why do some insist that what goes on here is a 24/7 hate-fest? Why do some insist that abuses that happened didn't really happen, or are minor compared to the "good"? Personally, there was plenty of good, many positive things that took place during my years in TWI. I met lots of good people and had good times. The "keys" in PFAL helped me to understand the bible and make my own decisions. Getting involved in TWI when I did possibly diverted me from problems with drugs and alcohol. So why do I not focus on the good times, the godly aspects of TWI, the "positive"? Because I'm not here to talk anybody into affiliating with or getting involved with TWI. If someone wants to hook up with TWI they'll hear enough reasons to do so from active wayfers. For me, the bad outweighed the good in TWI. If what I write here convinces ONE person to stay away from TWI, then I consider it worth the effort. I agree.

Wordwolf: quote:If you look at the first of Johniam's posted links and your first reaction is "that's not 'God's Blue Book'-'God's Blue Book' is called 'the Bible Tells Me So'", you might be in a cult. What the hell are you talking about?

I wonder if any PFAL class that was running had the session where he says, "and if I died tonight...it's still the truth" or something like that. That'd probably mess up some of the new students, huh?

Raf: Cute.

Abigail: Yes, I can see that the leader is more responsible than the underling. I have said that TWI leadership has been abusive. There's nothing wrong with feeling hate, or even rage occasionally if you've been victimized like that. I never said these women weren't victims AT ALL. Imbus: My first post was on page 3. I thought everybody was ganging up on Oldies and I thought he could use some support. Everything else I posted has been pretty much in response to what someone else posted to me. If Oldies and I have been "distracting from the main topic" as you and others seem to think, then why have there been no examples of sadistic leadership given since page 4? Me and OM do not have any phantom "pause button" which stops anybody from posting about sadistic leadership. Ala prochaine and Bramble gave some examples on page 2 and a few others followed, but the last 10 pages has been the "OM and Jiam show" with special guests. Raf: OK, I'll say it. Men of God ought not to be doing those things. I agree. No predators, no prey. Do you remember from the VF class how he says that no matter how your heart got hurt or lured away from God or whatever...still only YOU have the power to make a change. Yes, going to God for help is a good idea, but each person is responsible to rise up. That's all I meant by taking responsibility. I never said the women were just as bad as the men or that they asked for it. By the way, Bathsheba's culpability was moot when David made her his wife. I think these women here are a lot stronger than you think.