Watered Garden

Well, there are multiple viewpoints out there. I suggest you get a few of them, and make up your own mind (what a concept, eh? ) One viewpoint is that God is in control, BUT He allows things to happen as a result of our own free will. He could have stopped Eve from eating that fruit, whatever it may have been, but even though He knew in advance (because He is God, after all), He gives us freedom of will to choose to love and obey Him, reaping untold benefits, or go our own way, which ends in disaster. This viewpoint is called arminianism. Another point of view is Calvinism. Calvinism is best know for the TULIP acronym: Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin) Unconditional Election Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement) Irresistible Grace Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved) Total depravity simply means that man is in a state of sin and is unable to save himself through good works or anything else. Unconditional election means that God has "elected" or picked out a very few individuals throughout time to become saved and to spend all eternity with Him. These chosen few are called "the elect." Most of us are going to hell, because even if we believe Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior, we're not on the short list. Limited atonement means that Jesus died for the salvation of the elect, not for the world. Irresistible grace means that if you are one of the elect, you will respond to God's call. You will have a salvation experience, and you will be able thereafter to pinpoint the exact day, time, hour, setting when you repented of your sin and asked God to save you. If you cannot remember that exact moment, you just think you are saved and are not one of the elect. Perseverance of the Saints means you can't lose your salvation. I suspect these people you have been talking to are Calvinists of one sort or another. The pastor of the Calvinist church we used to attend does not believe in any of the manifestations of the spirit or especially that God heals you. He does not believe prayer does any good and we only pray for the sick because God commands it. We only witness because God commands it; witnessing does no good because God has already selected the chosen few and if you don't run across one of them you are just wasting oxygen when you witness. I have tried to be somewhat objective in my description. I don't consider myself to be any one theology or another. I am a Christian and a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe the Bible is divinely inspired. Speaking of the Bible, I have a suggestion: get another version other than King James, if you haven't already. I like the New International Version and I like the Amplified Bible. The Message is written in plain English. There is a website called Biblegateway.com that you can look up a verse in many different versions and see which one suits you. Get one you find interesting, read it for yourself, and don't worry about making notes. It took me a while before I could see the page without Way-colored glasses, but when I did I found I still love God and guess what ? He still loves me, too! Anyway, there will probably be a few zillion opinions weighing in and you can take this for what I hope it is: an attempt to answer your question a little bit, but going around the world to do so. Is God in control? Well, yes, but like a loving Father, I believe He lets us trip over our own feet sometimes. We're studying Elijah at church this next few weeks. It's easy to see how Israel screwed up until there were very few people left who worshipped God. Isaiah is a great book to read, too. Read it for enjoyment; nobody's looking over your shoulder to make sure you "rightly divide it according to usage and in the glorious light of the present truth, etc etc etc." All the best and feel free to PM me if you like. WG PS: I have found there is a huge difference between obeying God and obeying the leadership of TWI. Huge.

I just went out and bought some stuff to spray on the little willow trees at the back of the property. The deer simply shred off the bark until they kill the trees. People tell me how lovely they are, but we've hit six on the road, totaling two vehicles. They eat our garden, taking one chomp out of each ear of corn, trampling the stalks when the corn is still undeveloped, and I think of them as great big rats with antlers. One chick where I used to work informed me that the deer own this property; they are here first and we are the interlopers. I call this kind of thinking dumb. Especially when you are having a nice Wendy's hamburger for lunch - where's all the compassion for the cow? I'd respect a vegetarian who said that. But she wasn't. By the way, best Thanksgiving we ever had was a big venison roast someone gave my husband when we lived in North Carolina. After much research, I trimmed off the fascia, put it in one of those roasting bags with an undiluted can of French onion soup, a bottle of red wine vinegar and olive oil salad dressing, a handful of sage and a small container of poultry seasoning. I put this in a shallow pan in the refrigerator, turned it every two hours, including through the night, and slow roasted it in the bag the next morning. OH MY! it was awesome!

Dancing the Ant Stomp works well too. We have only had them in one room, and if we vacuum every other day or so, they go away on their own.

Sounds good! Unfortunately, all we have in Ohio is a boatload of whitetail deer. I would say "wanna trade" but the whitetails already wreak havoc in our garden and moose would, alas, not be any better, just bigger.

No surprise there! I sure hope the questioner runs like the very devil is after them!

I've been out since 1996 and I still am waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm especially nervous around womens' groups at church.

And we learned how to soak wheat berries overnight in water in the fridge, so they would be icy and refreshing for breakfast! :wacko:

I meant to add that before we ever lived in Florida, someone on the street told of us a scandal that occurred in Florida as a result of VPW's 'ministering' there. WG

Any names available? (without getting us into trouble of course)

I only counted 5.????? WG

Many years ago, we lived in Florida and I seem to recall going to a conference in the Panhandle, Pensacola maybe, and these folks had been Wayfers forever there. It seems that VP and Mrs. had 'ministered' there in the 1950s or 1960s, pre-taping of PFAL. Do any of you few veterans of TWI-1 remember anything about that? WG

It is unfortunate that they are newsworthy; a good ignoring would shut them down. They are not about God; they are about Mr. Phelps who heads their little band of miscreants. Where do they get the money to do this travel and smear-as-you-go campaign, anyway? WG

Now that I think more clearly, you are correct. Emporia was opened in 1974. In fact, I think some WOW branches were invited to the grand opening and my 4th WC WOW "sister" and a couple of her cronies may have actually gone. I don't recall learning much Bible in those two years, but I can tell a weed from a radish, which endeared me to my future husband's heart right away. I also learned, to J*m Mil*ne's dismay, what creosote will do when poured on a lawn. Poured, not even spilled. I learned to hate eggplant, Swiss chard, and mustard greens. WG

Deja vue all over again! I had a gentleman from TWI, graduate of the WC spouse program and his little wife, a 6th WC grad, tell me they would boot their 3 year old daughter down the driveway to the street and out of their lives and never think of her again if she interfered with their ability to "do The Word." Probably would have, too. And these people call themselves Christians? They are worse than the jihadists of 9/11/2001 because they should know better! WG

I was once told that the WC was getting too big to handle at one locale and so they were having FL programs to see if they could do in-state WC type programs to supplement the WC. I was there 1976-77 and during that time they acquired I think Emporia and I know Rome City in 1977, so I am pretty sure Broken Arrow is right. And for me personally the FLO program was not a complete loss; I met my wonderful Mr. Garden there! WG

Second year in FLO, those of us who did not go to the PFAL-2 or whatever it was in Muncie, got shipped over to RC to weed the extensive veggie gardens. It was a grueling drive from central Ohio on a Friday night, greeted with practically no food. Slept in a bunk bed, badly, and then rousted out to a really disgusting breakfast, which, I was informed, was "extremely healthful and highly nutritious." It still tasted like dang. I had a migraine when I woke up and was promptly reproved and sent out to weed potatoes and kill the innumerable potato bugs thereon. Tried and tried, finally went back to the big building and asked for some aspirin or something. Gasps of horror greeted my request. There were absolutely NO medications to be had. Here's some water. We could pray for you. Where WAS my BELIEVING? I finally said to hell with it and crept back to my little bunk bed to sleep it off. No dice. I was found, reproved again, rousted out to the garden. That was my first experience with Rome City and I wish to God it had been my last. WG

I agree with Waysider...we sang that in FLO after every communal meal, complete with gestures. Every one of them. Not only boring but stupid. Mindless repetition. Dumber than dirt. WG

At least one of the authors of those glowing reports, which I've not time nor inclination to read too carefully, needs to learn the different spelling for "rapeling" and "repelling." I can see how this program could be "repelling," though. WG

To clarify my previous post, we spent three months at RC and after that 2 years 9 months in TWI, then thank God - F.R.E.E.D.O.M.! wg

Just looking at the pictures makes me want to vomit in technicolor. The beginning of the worst three years of my life spent in that hell-hole. I recognize some of the equipment - the "Hobart" stuff. What they put unsuspecting folks through at that place, especially children! WG

Wasn't there some guy who wrote a book about being gay and the lifestyle and getting delivered by PFAL and being in the WC and all? I believe this person even was married. From his book, fictionalized as it was and truly weird as it was, it was apparent he idolized VPW and yet I think he eventually divorced his wife and went back to the lifestyle of a gay man. Just a fleeting memory. WG

Not as much as some hapless souls, because we always believed in home ownership. I still do. If you are not overloaded with a bunch of debt, car payments, five billion credit cards, what is the difference between renting a home and making a mortgage payment? I know one argument is maintenance, upkeep and improvements, but you still usually have to mow the yard and make minor repairs yourself. When we did rent, we always tried to leave the place a little better than we found it. And of course we were never WC so didn't have to expect to move every whipstitch. WG

Can't listen to it because there's no barf emoticon on this thing. I pity the fools, I really do. Those gas pumps in July weren't the only snow job; that's guy's whole life was a snow job. WG

"Perhaps" given a sedative? How about a case of whiskey chased with Propofol? Sounds all kinds of yuck, still.

Mr. Garden and I perused the 3/4 picture and he agrees. "That is too you!" he said but couldn't remember the dress, either. Hopefully my taste has improved. Who is the guy to your immediate left, and the girl to his immediate left? We couldn't find C*ndy Anders*n, either. And who is the hair-challenged fellow on the right between Norbert and Larry? WG