waterbuffalo

Wish I'd known you wanted a copy, sonofarthur, before I thumbed through and then pitched mine. :(

This is a complete fabrication. LCM apparently was just following in the footsteps of his spiritual "dad" finding obscure and non-scholarly sources to teach something to tickle the ears and lead people to believe you've got to stay with The Way if you want the real skinny on any topic. NOT!

Evan, well thought out and excellent summary, imo! Garth is right that the tensions that led to the war were brewing in Revolutionary War times. There are lots of misconceptions. 1. Was it about state's rights? Certainly. About a state's right to set their policy re. slavery. And, as war approached, about a state's right to secede, but that was ancillary. But it's also true that the tensions were economic. There were duties and tariffs that rewarded northern states and punished southern states, exacerbating the existing antipathy. But, if you look at the actual events that led to war the 10-15 years before shots were fired, the hottest fights were over whether territories & incoming states would allow slavery. Read about Bloody Kansas. Surprised, Garth? 2. Slavery was on its way out? Depends. The transcontinental slave trade to the US was kaput by then, yes. But slave markets in both the north & south were still thriving. After all, slaves are people & do have children. Many speculate slavery would have ended on its own. It's an argument not without merit, but no telling how long it would have lasted. Incidentally, the war was never about ending slavery. The only Northerners who thought that were the most radical of the Abolitionists in the Republican Party. But it was largely about the advancement, propagation and protection of slavery. Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation was only a war tactic and applied only to "rebel states" (a misnomer in my book as the states definitely had a right to secede). True, but I now believe it was more about slavery than I used to. The part that cannot be documented but I believe is true is that many of the slaves became Christians and prayed for their deliverance and many whites prayed for it too on both sides. Because of this, the Lord granted their requests and the north had to win in order for their collective prayers to be answered, imho. The South recovered economically from the after-effects only in the 1980's. There was a strong desire to punish the Rebs and lots of property was either confiscated or appropriated at give-away prices. Lincoln ran roughshod over the constitution like no other president and it permanently altered the balance between federal and states, shifting the lever of power to the feds forever. And IMO it set the US on its course to imperialism, a fact history seems to support. Whether it was an incidental result, you decide. As in all transitions, things were gained and things were lost. From where I sit, more was lost than gained, much more. One quote I like and I'll paraphrase is: The War Between the States was when the Federal Government conquered the American people.

I'm sorry, also, that you lost your friend, Broken1.

...and Socks, I thought your comment on the other thread fits nicely here, as well: "It's no surprise to me that all the strident self-pumped so-called "Ministers" have trouble doing simple things like that when they're more concerned about solving everyone else's problems instead of their own."

No joke, socks! I'd RUN, RUN, RUN. :wacko:

You forgot to say, "Precious little ones?" Let's get it right, Satoori. You're slipping.

Thaaaaaaaaaaats what I'm talking about, Groucho. Unfortunately.... "and I thought they were just trying to paint the sky with their nose hairs.. silly me." lol, Ham

Shellon, we haven't been to a movie theatre for a very long time, so no I haven't seen that one. Please let me know how it was. The Departed it is.....thanks Notawayfer!

Hey GS friends, We are ACTUALLY going to the movies tonight? Anybody seen a good one that's still playing now that you could recommend. I'm sooooo excited.

I'm sorry that that happened to you Mr. Ham. I was really referring to ex-twi "mogs" who started ex-twi offshoots and considered themselves as, for lack of a better term, heavies in twi. Some of us would refer to them here as ex-twi spinoff mini-cult leaders. I don't think that all of us who graduated from the wc took manipulation to that extreme and most of us who post here have publicly apologized to any we may have hurt while we were under the (twi-wc) influence. Most of us have made amends, gotten real jobs, and have made a concerted efforts to get on with our lives. The big names from the past can't seem to do that. While they mouth that all believers have a ministry, they have an aloof air about them that says, imo, that their ministry is more special and they are above the "little ones" (most other "regular" believers). They hold onto the twi-mog image from the past and it is hard for them to have relationships with "the little" ones other than, "me leadah, you follower." They find it virtually impossible to have a brother/sister relationship with other believers their own age, even. There is always the fruit of the caste system mentality. This is not a judgment about them. It is a common characteristic observed by moi that has to be holding them back in their growth process and in their ministry and private lives. Are there some out there who don't fit into this category and really are humble and have the servant mentality? Probably. I am simply saying I have not met any. If anyone knows ex-twi-big-name-offshoot-mogs who don't fit into this category, please, by all means let me know. I would LOVE to hear about it.

I hope you do something fun and different to celebrate! wb

Cindy! I'm so happy for you that you are starting your studies in a field you are clearly so good at. Thanks for keeping us posted.

You sound like a TV preacher, broken1. Oh, I'd say the part that most twi splinter "ministers" don't understand.

Thanks Oeno for the thread and MStar for the links. I LOVE to read his stuff and have a HUGE file on him and Rosa Parks. Rosa was/is my hero, too. She just died last year in Dec. Lived to be 90 something. Great woman. MLK's thinking was so far above most that he had few peers in his lifetime or possibly even now, imo. Thanks again for the links, MStar.

Ain't that the truth, fellowshipper!!!

Ditto to all. I LOVE IT!!!!!!!

Me too, Roy. Great post.

Human beings are imperfect and because of that we have to accept that we will, this is a definite, make mistakes. When we do we can learn something. We all learn that way. To feel badly about it is not to be grateful for the lesson. We all, alcoholics or not, have to pick ourselves up one foot at a time and walk the next day. Just do the next right thing and hopefully the lessons will stick. The acceptance piece is the one I work on all of the time, too, cman, if it helps any. Combatting perfectionism has been a life long battle for me, but it is getting easier. Counseling is also a great thing. Most Christian counselors have a sliding rate scale based on income. I don't know if that would help or hurt you (depending on how much you make), but I highly recommend it!

Pinklady, Regardless of what anyone says about splinter groups one way or the other, I think you should do what is right for you. If you meet some folks who are loving and caring in CFF in your local area, why not go ahead and go there for a while? No one knows what tomorrow will bring. Maybe some of the good saints there will help you with some things. Networking works. People can offer invaluable LIFE experiences such as the best place to have your car fixed to how to get the best flights on the least money. Maybe one of the men will come over and help you move some furniture. Every single lady needs a strong support network. So, my opinion is check it out. Make some friends if you aren't too turned off, and determine to leave if you notice things that are freaky or uncomfortable. Lots of churches now have cell groups in homes and they operate the same way as above and are especially helpful to new members. So, again, my advice is to do what is right for you because you are the only one living in your body and you will know what you need to do when the time is right. Take care, wb

Right on fellowshipper! One of the best posters I've ever seen was on the wall of a printer I once knew. It was a photograph of a cow in a cow pasture and lots of little patties in the field and it read: SOME DAYS YOU STEP IN IT AND SOME DAYS YOU DON'T. The two forms of free therapy that I usually recommend to all ex-twi who ask are GS Cafe (of course) and Al Anon. Why? In twi, we were taught to develop co dependent relationships with leadership that were self destructive; in Al Anon, we are taught to establish boundaries with other people, how to detach with love, to understand that we as members of the human race are imperfect and to accept that (once we go easier on ourselves we automatically let up on others), to accept that we can't change others and to stop trying, to take steps to change our old ways of thinking for healthier ways of thinking, and most importantly how to love ourselves and be good to ourselves. Oh, and to stop thinking it's our business to "fix" everyone else. The only people we can fix is ourselves and that is a process. Prayer is encouraged and part of the program. Accepting who we can't change is key (everyone but ourselves). Hope you find the mental freedom and peace that you are looking for, dear cman.

Has anyone ever known an ex-twi mog who seemed truly at peace with himself/herself and was a content, well-rounded human being or did they appear to you to always need to one up someone and find ways to mark their territory even when they weren't being questioned? Think about it. All of the ones I've ever known who think they have "special" authority and power delegated by God all seem to be frustrated and unhappy. True, they have their persona and their facade and usually their script that they deliver even without provocation, lol, but they seem, imho, defensive and plastic. Have you ever heard, "Well, if so and so had only done what I told him/her!" They're always trying to get everyone to line up and do whatever their way. It just seems like a lot of wasted energy and time because they will never get everyone to do their bidding all of the time. It's so fruitless. But, they have their mission and can't figure out why they have to spend time constantly trying to "help" people who won't let them. They scratch their heads and their body language says, "If they would only come to me???? I have the answers "

(can you say, co dependency?--because the demon's using 'em both (the leadah believer and the "little one" believer), they're both frustrated and can't be satisfied or happy and don't know why--my observation, not from a book, lol!)Bingo, Uptown1. Welcome.