templelady

THe problenm with TWI's Idea of "present truth" is that it has no roots in "past truth"--Like a sandcastle the whole thing gets swept away and a new one is forged from scratch

Happiest of Days, Dougie!!

If that is the case then The Bible teaches henotheism. In the Ten Commandments GOD doesn't say "I am the only GOD worship me" instead HE says "thou shalt have no other gods before ME" Clearly showing that there are other gods but he is GOD. I cease now because this is descending into doctrinalism which belogs on a different forum. As for the "warning" I thank you but I am content with my decision and wish you joy in yours whatever it may be.

All true TRevor-- BUt we are only to WOrship GOD the father--thus we are monotheistic. ANd somehow I knew that you once were :)-->

I thank those who were in the thick of things for their words--Maybe I have judged LCM too harshly these many years--I am Sorry that he did not follow those who wanted to right the wrongs--

MOst definitely we are monotheistic. One GOD father of All, Jesus Christ His only begotten Son our only savior and redeemer and the Holy Ghost indwelling in those who have repented, and been baptized for the remission of sins.

I hear what you are saying Alfakat I know what others who were definitely closer to Cragers than I was have said And I'm not denying what happened at all. What I am saying (and I know through personal experience) is that even tho' you just can't face getting out of bed in the morning it doen't mean that your mind isn't working on how to get out of the mess you are in. In fact, if anything,,your mind, freed from the normal day to day routine, has even more time to dwell on the mess and come up with some pretty bizarre ideas how how to get out of it and get even. I am many things but not a sociopath. In my mind LCM is a socoiopath which makes those ruminations of an even more virulent kind. He may not have had the wherewithall to put his ideas into full action until the last part of the FOg--but those plans had been long in the making.

My thought processes--dangerous and murky territory for the unwary there! THings I never agreed with: I never agreed with the doctine that says: If a man is born in A remote tribe in the Amazon basin with no contacts outside his little area and lives all his life in a righeous fashion he will not receive eternal life because he didn't accept Jesus Christ--never mind that there is no way that he ever had the opportunity while here on earth. Mainstream CHristian View of Eternal Life --When my grandmother passed away. I mentioned that I was doing okay because I knew we would spend eternity together. I was told that isn't how it works--I then found out that What is considered "Mainstream" Christian doctrine teaches we will see each other ONLY at the ressurection then if we gain eternal life we will spend all eternity adoring GOD And Jesus Christ with no other thoughts in our head. Christian Churches don't really spell this out--most of us think we will get to be together for eternity and little is done to dispel this notion unless you confront it head on like I did the Trinty --Much as I Hate to agree with ANything TWI taught they were right on this although I do not agree with many aspects of TWI's portrayal of GOD , Jesus Christ and The Holy Ghost. So after 13 years of bouncing from here to there I joined the LDS church (Mormons) And am Happier than I've ever been

NOt wanting to derail the Loyalty Letter thread I'm starting a New Discussion. It's about the "Fog years" those three years that everyone kind of slides through on their way from TWI 1 to TWI 2. 87 to 89 is when the charges were filed in Alaska that CW and I have posted at length about. It's the period when the veil of secrecy, so much a part of TWI leadership, was torn just enough that some of the horrors of the REal Twi became visible. THere was NO FOg involved--at least not in LCM's world. THe loyalty letter just didn't spring out of thin air--LCM was very busy in the 87-89 time period figuring just how he would do damage control- Busy figuring out how he would erase VPW from memory BUsy figuring out how to cut loose those HE knew wouldn't go along with HIS vision. Remember those 3x5 cards from them he had a pretty good Idea who would and wouldn't put up with his BS. He knew that the only way to salvage his position was to get rid of any opposition, create a spirit of fear, andd make sure that he covered the tracks as best he could. It took almost three years to formulate those plans. THe fact that they blew up in his face, the fact that the fear of Greaspotitis didn't keep every one silent were just new challenges to be dealt with swiftly and cruely. Whatever LCM later Became--during the so-called fog Years he was not in lala land despite what he may have portrayed in public. He was planning, and Scheming , a tyranical despot seeking to remove all doubt as to his right to the throne.

CAtcup I never liked WC as a whole (there were some exceptions) when I was in. I never even considered that they might be in as much pain as me--because All I saw was the abuse they meted out. If you have achieved nothing else on these forums --you have made WC into human beings instead of Borg-like automicons. I am proud to have gotten to know you over the years and I salute your courage and Steadfastness in seeking to undo the damages you wrought while exposing the evils of TWI. If Rosie and CO. were just half as honest and forthcoming as you, many hearts would be healing instead of in a perpetual ache. Thank you for being here when I needed someone to vent on and for always listening.

Happy Birthday hope your day is wonderful

MO get scissors. MO get every nasty bit of String and cut in into inch long pieces, Oh Yessssss Precious, We Does We Does. Nasty String, Nasty Chairs, THey Hard and Metal and Hurts our BOttoms they Does...........

HAve a gloriously HAppy Day Grocho!!

May your Garden be Raindrop free on your special day ==Happy Birthday

MMM-kind of like having a tiger by the tail--your "in Control" as long as you don't relax your grip--the tiger meanwhile is resting up for the POunce when you do--no wonder Rosalie has such a shiny forehead --worry, I'm told, Will do that too you. Since Donna hasn't filed for divorce yet--How much of a conduit do you think she is to LCM--I mean is she there for love of ROsie or to keep on eye on the Fox for the TIger????

I go home to Spokane every summer--If we got all the details about when- done early enough (say feb or MAr 'Cause I buy my tickets before the price hikes) I could arrange to be on my annual trip and Catch a flight on southwest ang come down for a day

HAppiest of B'Days to you

PAt- EVERYTHING was ok in TWI as long as you were the MOGFOT or the leadeship that agreed with his warped or, could I even go as far as to say, Mostly non-existent sense of decency and morality. CLear down to the TWIG Level Rosalie is President on PAper Donna is still at headquarters Rosalie may know where the skeletons are buried But I bet that LCM's stack of 3x5 cards is truly astounding. Paper is paper it doesn't care what is written on it Reality--that's another story all together --LCM is still the puppeteer-the strings may be fewer they may be less thick but a string is a string and it only takes one gentle tug to send things careening in a given way- LCM is still the little man behind the curtain

HAppy birtday to You

Coolwaters check your Private topics please

I did something tonight, I went to the Temple and on the Prayer list I put Five names; R & S U, Loy Craig Martindale, Donna Martindale, And Rosalie Rivenbark-- Let us be clear, I didn't get all happy and joyous and fuzzy headed. I asked God not to hold their sin against them. I didn't reveal anything more than the names and I just handed them in and walked away. DO I feel Better about the past? NOPE, the past is what it was. I still can't recapture 81 birthdays; 17 Christmas', Thanksgivings, Easters etc.;6 proms; 3 first dates----- I can't mend my daughters shattered heart-or see my grandchild- or erase my son's anger-- I have come to the point where the thoughts of those years no longer send me into a clenched jaw fury while scalding tears stream down my face and the migraine pounds in my head. But I can say, that there will never come a day when the memories grow fuzzy or I forget what happened. There are posters here whose glib advice is to get on with life-- Getting on with life is relatively simple --as long as you're not dead life tends to get on all on it's own. But trying to pretend it never happened, or really isn't that bad after time passes, is a fool's errand--Because sexual predation is the most vicious predation of all-- It is predation carried out in secret in broad daylight. It is a predation that relies on the fact that the human body is wired to respond to certain sensations in certain ways. It is employed by persons who use that knowledge to cause their victims to feel dirty and unclean and responsible because their bodies did respond. They then use that guilt to foster bonds of steel which make their victims acquiesce to even more abuse. They engender within their victims the endless questions and thoughts of “If only…, I I hadn’t… I shouldn’t…I should…., wasn’t strong enough…, good enough….. They then stand before the courts of men and talk of their illness-their uncontrollable urges--turning themselves into victims of some unseen malady that explains away their guilt--leaving their victims not only with the guilt and shame that they already feel but with the knowledge that somehow or another their abuser really isn’t an abuser but as much a victim as them. We as society need to stop this insanity--We need to stop allowing the predators in our midst, to blame their mothers and their childhoods, and their pasts and society for THEIR CHOICES. That’s right THEIR CHOICES. Many a Married man has looked at a pretty woman, not his wife, and kept on walking--It takes a conscious decision to turn and follow her ,to buy her a drink, a conscious decision every step of the way. It takes conscious decisions every step of the way when you abuse and predate in way, shape or form. No one grabbed them by the collar and made them do anything-- “I couldn’t stop myself “means “I wanted what I wanted.” If by chance they have a mental defect that makes them incapable of understanding right from wrong or want to argue they are incapable of controlling their urges then them they need to be institutionalized permanently THE FIRST TIME THEY ARE CAUGHT AND CONVICTED to keep society safe. We don’t hesitate to sentence murderers to life without parole or even the death penalty for the First offense-- but somehow the social workers amidst us (the same social workers by the by which claim that mothers ALWAYS KNOW) have convinced our judiciary that warm-touchy feely therapy is going to work while at the same time admitting a pedophile can NEVER BE CURED! ENOUGH ALREADY

I wandered so free not then in contact with "THE" O wOe was poor Me

WEll said--well said we each cope in our way COOLWATERS--Thanks for the memOries--I mean that seriously --as I read you post I was thinking of some of the silly things we did to tweak leaderships nose. I also want to thank you for refreashing my memories on many points--I still face questions from still angry adult children. It is clear that TWI had leverage--bad people who were facing MANDATORY sentancing laws somehow became immune :(--> I am hear to say that peace and happiness are with me--but the memories are for our LEARNING --lest we forget

HAppiest of days to you

HAppiest of Birthdays Cathy