templelady

Truthfully--I was so busy trying to stay afloat in the TWI of Alaska that VPW's passing provoked scarcely a ripple in my world-- Sure I saw people around me in paroxyms of grief --I was sorry he died just Like I was sorry for anyone who died but I never "worshipped" the man in way shape or form--too much sound christian doctrine in my life from before The WAy. That was a big part of my problem in the WAY couldn't get that veneration for leadership down--that kind of veneration was reserved for GOd and Jesus Christ...........

Happy Happy Birthday To you!!

If you are told that "you lack meekness" and your only response to your accuser is to weep and try to do better REPEATEDLY .... YOu might be in a cult

Happiest of B DAYS Rascal

Sorry I misunderstood Wordwolf If the questions is how much control did TWI actualy exert over us?--THey controled everything --in some cases our very lives.

Chas No offense taken-- There are bad bishops just as there are good bishops--My bet is that he was trying to scare you (very inappropriate, not professional ) Excommunication is a formal meeting with the entire presidency--I bet your name is still on membership roles YOu can write a letter to Salt Lake and ask to have it removed if you like Or if the only reason you've been staying away is because you thought you were excommunivated and would like to come back --contact your local stake presidency --WE WANT YOU!!! BUt either way-I luv you Chas for your wisdom and your humor--Please stick around Greasespot forever OKAY??!??

Some. If they give an order, you must comply or leave the organization. I think That is the realistic answer--Did they have more control over me and MINe?? oh--yeah way way more-- BUt in a true sense --If you join an organization you are agreeing to follow their rules--when you no longer wish to follow said rtules you need to leave-- I think there is a difference in the legal question of how much control an organization can have and the psychological question of how much they actually are given

I have been thinking about this-- In The LDS church we have excommunication for the big things --adultry-commission of a crime-rampant heresy etc- THe idea being that your covenents with GOD are binding and as long as they are in force and you are actively going against GOds will you are committing even greater sin. Excommunication frees you from your covenents with GOD-thus eliminating one source of sin and you can work on the rest. I'm not here to discuss the rightness or wrongness of this doctrine what I am here to discuss is what happens after-- you are still welcome at Sacrament meeting--welcome in Sunday school, relief society or Priesthood--you are encouraged and welcome to attend all functions--your visiting and home teachers will still come visit you--the church will help you find counseling a job whatever-- Many times your fellow congregants don't even know you've been excommunicated THe end result is-not always -but often that withiin a year or so they are rebaptised and become a fully fellowshipping member again. Just recently I attended one of these baptisms--had known the person for about 9 months-NEVER KNEW he was excommunicated until I was asked to his RE baptisam--The turnout was amazing-the Bishop--the stake president --life long friends both LDS and non LDS-a small party afterwoods THere is never a time when they are excluded from fellowship at some level if they want to attend (the only exception I ever knew was people convicted of Child molestation or rape-because there are children at almost every function for obvious reasons it is not prudent for them to be pesent -except at certain prior approved functions) I see this then look at TWI's mark and avoid policy and , In my mind M&A seems like such a waste-- So I am asking is M&A better in some ways than the situation I've described? is there a middle ground??? I ask because so many people seem to have been Hurt by The M & A but then many are hurt by Excommunication in my church too--

If you thought that cleaning someone elses filthy house against you will would find you favor in God's eyes You might be in a cult

Your apology is accepted What I find Annoying about you isn't what you believe--that's your business --I don't agree -that's life What I find annoying is your PI of what I and Many others say--My original post was about VPW being a blessing Yet I get such things as the following out of you Again HUH??? Just stick to what I actually post and I will be more willing to listen to your viewpoint --don't say I'll agree but will feel much less cornered. As It is I feel like you are trying to "gaslight" me

HUH??? PLease do not put words in my mouth that I never said--It's unsanitary I don't know where your hands have been!! I find it amusing that you asume that God hasn't blessed my life since TWI. BUt of course, you must maintain that position in order to uphold VPW and LCM. I mean if all of us Christians out here are receiving blessings from GOD on a daily basis, Like I am and I am sure many others, Then TWI and Piffle don't remain as the only link to GOD. I'm sure you find that very frustrating.

For your enlightenment gossip is passing along second hand (or more) information First hand accounts are not gossip three of the children molested by said TC were mine

OM, Wierwille wasn't a military man Definitely can agree on that he never served at all bent on removing/destroying the Jewish population. AS I remember it he taught that the people we call Jews Today weren't really Jews at all-ergo the destroying of the Jewish population wasn't necessary since they no longer existed--handy,No??

Mike, Could you please explain to lil' ol' 5 senses orientated non-PFAL mastering Me how Dr's decision to back the plan of the Ohio TWI TO cover for, relocate and reaasign a homosexual pediophilic TC so that he molest anew correlates with ????Cause frnkly the spritual me is haveing trouble regarding this as a blessing of any kind.

10 REproff sessions where leadership spouted off a list of things I did or wasn't doing--I finaly figured out that it was a generic list so I stopped thinking My mind was going when I was accused of going places I'd never been with people I never know. Instead I would just sit and murmer the appropriate response. 9 Any function where the men left the room to discuss "spritually heavy" matters out of the women's presence. We were supposed to whisper if we spoke and maintain our posture because we were there to hear "hot Bible" CW and I whispered a lot 8 Testimonies from anyone ON why they were so blessed to have found TWI rote fomat glassy eye delivery, with phony smile on face(usually for snaring the next potential class) 7 inane drival passed off as God breathed--" "You don't have to refrigerate your food It's blessed and can't spoil" 6 PFAL --after the first 15 minutes of any session you had heard all the salient points, your bum was getting numb your head was beginning to throb... 5. Any function where the spritually right made it a point to drop snide comments about "well, you know YOu are just a Babe in the word " this from a man who was but a twinkle in his daddy's eye when I started reading scripture 4 the annual alaska picnic in Soldotna the lowly spritual unheavy did all the setup work-then after meals the LL took the men with him on a long walk. His wife however wandered through the women stopping before her friends and Sycophants saying Why don't you come with me on a walk said right in front of the other "non blessed women" who were left with cleanup and "minding" the camp which meant even when cleanup was finished we couldn't leave. 3 TWIg same thing every week same sitting arraingement same song, same drival 2 BLessing anyone by being "permitted" to clean up the mess they had created" 1 CHAIRS those bloody uncomfortable chairs- and that ruler and that string, and the endless moving a 1/4 inch this way and that, then the positioning of the plants which meant restring,the chairs, and the whole thing being done again because the wall outlet meant the cord had to run a different direction. AARRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH CHAIRRRRSSSSS

THe few name tags i was ""BLESSED""" to recieve (quick gag me with a spoon) I firmly attached to my purse. Then Tucked the purse safely away. As small as Anchorge was _ If you needed a nametag to identify me then either A) you really didn't care one way or the other whether you spoke to me or not. or b) you attended way functions less than I did I were probably panning your escape. Either way you didn't need to know my name

Well, I for One am vigorously clapping at all the right places in this thread :D-->

The LDS church does not practice Polygamy because it is against the laws of this country. The law against polygamy in the United States was upheld by the Supreme Court in OCTOBER, 1878 in 1890, then President Woodruff, issued a proclamation that abolished plural marriages in the Utah Territory. The LDS church does not condone or practice polygamy on this earth. While we still believe it to be a principle of GOD, mormonism teaches obedience to civil authorities. Those who defied President Woodruff were excommunicated. The FLDS or Self styled "Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints". Is not a part of, nor has it ever been recognized, as A part of the Church of Jesus Christ of LAtter Day Saints. Polygamists who come to the knowledge of LDS authorities are turned over to the Law. And for all you men that think polygamy would be a "cool" thing Please keep in mind that the laws governing polygamy, when it was still practiced within the church, Carried a hefty price tag. FIRST your wife or other wives had to agree to the woman you picked--no agreement no new wife SECOND each wife had to have equal, separate and comparable dwellings, furnishings, clothes necessities etc. That means that if you and your current wife have a two bedroom ranch on three acres wife number two gets a two bedroom ranch on three acres. Even in President Young's Beehive House each wife had separate and equal quarters. the same rules apply to all children. And if any of you are that wealthy out there--drop me a line..... ;)-->

A hard subject for me--VERY HARD__ the truth of the matter is that in my "in" days I lived in a cocoon of fear. It was ever present, "how can I keep myself and the kids form getting Hurt" What happens if I can't pay the bills" fear of doing the worg thing saying the wrong thing dressing the wrong way. Fear of upsetting leadership. It Hs taken me years to get where I am now and there are still little clouds of fear poised to strike on very bad days when I am tired or rundown.

THe Mormon welfare system is supported by offerings by each ward's(congregations) "fast offerings" which stay in the ward. Once a month on a Sunday everyone fasts for one or two meals, usually breakfast or lunch, and gives the money that would have been spent on food to the fast offering. Understand no one checks up to see if you actually fast, and no one sets a dollar amount on what you give (OR IF YOU GIVE)that is up to your own conscience. Being single my offering would be actually about $5.00 a month but I give more because I remember what it is like to not have THe fund is used to provide food if you are in need (and I mean a LOT of food meat, fruit, veggies, milk, formula, butter, Eggs THE LIST GOES ON you can select whatever you want in wHAt quantities you want and the Relief society delivers it to your home. They help with utility bills, rent payments, have an employment center at the stake level, they will help you find housing. they will help you with medical bills..the list goes on. Tithing is also encouraged (again a matter for your own conscience) That is 10% ,again no one gives you a problem if you don't tithe,however, if you are consistently in a jam the bishopric might explain why tithing is a conmmandment of GOD and blessings often flow from that commitment. But they won't withhold aid from you if you don't tithe. The tithes go directly to CHurch headquarters in Salt Lake. Headquarters pays for the buildings, the teaching materials, your lesson books, the hymnals, the office equipment in short eveything you need to run a church and the buildings are always very beautiful and well maintained and "well stocked" OUr churches want for nothing. We do not have a paid clergy, a paid anything, for that matter, until you get to the Very highest echelons of the church. And only then because their callings are full time Everyone else volunteers their time and efforts, holds down a job, raises their kids etc. It is a good system, no one should ever feel "Lower". Callings are changed as led my GOds inspiration (my belief system not getting into a theological debate here :)-->) Next month I could have a new bishop who used to be the yong Men's leader. The Former Bishop could now be the ward secretary. GOd teaches us that all "callings" are of him and that no one is to esteem his calling as being "Better or worse" than another as all are necessary for the working of the body. As for other charities, churches, and non members we are taught to be generous with all those in need. I think my Stake president said it best when during a meeting with him the subject of my working for SAlvation Army came up. I Said "they are vey anti Mormon..."The Stake President cut in and said "But they do so much wonderful wonderful work --there will be rewards in heaven for the work they do!"

DigI!!!!! NOt movies and Chnese food!!! AARAGGHHHHHH

IT"S a mirAcle!!!!!-- Oldies and I can agree (large waves parting, water springing from rocks, as I avoid squishing all the frogs that just came out of nowhere ;)-->)

NAw, tom, It's from Dante's novel "THe Inferno" the ninth ring of hell is where GOD sent Judas Iscariot

HOpe your anniversary is extra special

Actually taught by the Twig coordinator from the 9th ring of He!! "it is okay, to lie, and cheat people who are not part of the household becuase GOD has already rejected them" COnsidering his other activites.....