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Abigail
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I have a wonderful dog who is about 11 years old, at least that is my best guestimate.

We think he may be starting to show some signs of senility. After this past winter, which for Michigan was really a mild one, he no longer wants to go outside. I have literally had to drag him out by his collar.

He is going to the bathroom in the house. Mostly in the kids bedroom, because the dogs don't generally hang out in there. I also have another dog who does likewise on occasion, if we miss her signals and don't let her out on time.

1. How can I get the smell out of the rug?

2. How can I discourage them from going to the bathroom in the house, especially in the kids room?

I've tried the Resolve carpet cleaner and I heard somewhere vinegar and water can work, but so far I've not had success with either. It is possible my vinegar and water solution was not strong enough, I don't know what amounts of each to mix so I went sort of light on the vinegar.

I had also heard feeding them in the area where they are going can help, but this is a little tricky because it is the kids bedroom and it would be my preference to NOT have the kids playing with the dog food. Plus, I have to really watch my husky around the little ones, they can get a little rough and she can be a little snapish about that. My older dog is as gentle as they come, the kids can climb all over him and when he's had enough he just shakes them off and moves somewhere else.

To every man his own truth and his own God within.

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Abigail,

First off, if the dog is 11 years old maybe the senses is off and the dog is afraid to go outside for that reason. I saw my aunt and uncles dog when it got older started to not being able to see and refused to go anywhere. Also, maybe it is suffering from arthritise? Does the dog seem to be in pain at all? If the dog is in pain it is ok to give the dog children aspirin. Do not give him children's tylenol because that can't be given to a dog but the children's aspirin can.

Have you had any changes in the household that would upset the dog? I know here I have a dog that is very upset and won't go outside and is following me all over the place because my son came home and there is a lot more activity. I took her outside and she won't go to the bathroom.

I by no means am an expert but have had a lot of animals in the past. I would suggest calling a vet and seeing what they say.

As far as clean up what I've done is as soon as I find the urine I will use newspaper or paper towels and make sure that you soak up until its dry. Then I use dishsoap and water on a sponge or rag and scrub the area. I don't have problems with my carpet. The problems are if you don't soak it dry first. The same works for BM. First remove as much of it off the carpet and then scrub. After your done scrubbing then use a sponge or papertowels to get as much of the soap off as possible. So that means not using a lot of soap so you can get it off. If you don't get it right away and there is stains and smell what I've done is rent a carpet cleaner to see if that gets if off for you.

I hope this works for you!!!! Let me know how it does and how your dog is doing.

I

Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!

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I'm not a dog expert, but I have lived with them most of my life. 11 years old could be old for a dog or not. Bigger dogs tend to age faster than little ones. My terrier is coming up on 13 and has aged into the best-behaved little guy you'd ever want.

I'd suggest a vist to the vet. A good vet (which is sometimes hard to find and is usually synonymous with an old vet) can tell you a lot about what's going on. Make sure you're feeding on a regular schedule and not too much. Kibble dampened with water is best.

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Hi Abigail,

I'm not an expert but I know of a product you can use as far as cleaning up the messes that works better than anything I've ever tried. It's called Nature's Miracle and can be purchased at pet shops. It's a real well known product so I don't think you will have a problem finding it. It is a liquid that you simply apply to the spot and let it do its thing for about 5 minutes then blot. I really believe it's the best thing you can use. It totally takes care of odor and isn't very expensive, plus they have a money back guarantee.

Even though your dog resists, it seems like the best thing would be taking him for a walk, maybe fifteen minutes, morning and evening, to assist in cleaning him out. It is unusual for a mature dog to go to the bathroom in the house he lives in as he would consider it his "den" and not want to soil it. Soooo, even though he may not want to venture out in the cold, it is in his best interest. A visit to the vet is a good idea too just to make sure he checks out okay.

Hope this helps!

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Thanks, everybody, for the tips.

I will look for the Nature's Miracle. As far as health goes, he's been to the vet and I'm told he's healthy, especially for his age. It was the vet who suggested he was perhaps going senile.

As far as changes in the house, there have been quite a few. We inherited another dog, which seems to be the starting point for all this.

With respect to the dogs using the boys' bedroom, they don't really hang out in there, so it's not really part of their 'den'.

To every man his own truth and his own God within.

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Hi Abigail,

Sudsy ammonia works well and there's a product called "The Eliminator" sold at vets that got cat spray smell out of my carpet. (I figure if it can get rid of that nasty smell it'll work on anything).

Since the dogs don't hang out in the boys' bedroom I would recommend feeding them there a few times. It might not work though. It didn't with one of our dogs we had that problem with.

Another option would be to go back to puppy training steps with the dogs. Take them out every few hours and immediately after eating. Keep them outside until they do their stuff and then treat them and praise them like they just did the most marvelous trick in the world. Since you've had them a while you may be pretty familiar with when they usually have to go, so you could try taking them out at those times.

I hope you find what works for you.

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I mix white vinegar and water 50-50 in a spray bottle and spray it AFTER I've cleaned up. Neutralizes the odor.

My 12 y/o cocker spaniel is the same way. He never did like getting wet, even as a puppy and will walk on the sidewalk to avoid wet grass.

We have a carpet brush and Pine-Sol or Lysol, a bucket of warm water, dry towels, a white towel and a heavy book or piece of furniture such as a stool or something. Put a little cleaner on the stain, scrub the daylights, keep scrubbing, blot with dry towels or rags. Rinse with water. Blot with rags. Put the white towel over the where the stain was, weight it down and leave it overnight.

We are in the process of selling our house so this is a big deal and we bought a nice sized crate and put him in it when we're gone. I hated it at first, but he seems to enjoy it and just goes and lies down in it when I'm ready to leave for work. I also take him for a stroll down the street every morning before I leave. Boy dogs seem to like to mark their territory!

Hope some of this helps.

WG

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My dog was 15 years old and he started doing the same thing. He would pee in our son's bedroom and thats where he stayed most of the time cuz he was afraid of the cat. Our vet told us that at his age its possible that he had a weak bladder cuz he only pee'd in the house not pooped. Its not uncommon for a dog that age to have a weak bladder. We used arm and hammer no vacuum foam deoderizer and that took the smell out of the rug. He also had a bit of arthritis and didn't like to go out either cuz the cold air would make it worse. He was very healthy til he got some kind of growth on his eye and because of his age the doc didn't want do surgery on him because of the anesthisia. We finally had to put him to sleep when we saw he was suffering because of his eye. We miss him so much as he was born in our house and spenthis life here. Also having another dog in the house could cause a bit of jealesy and thats a good way for him to get attention even tho it may be negative for you sometimes they are just like little kids in that respect. I agree wih taking him out and giving him alot of praise when he goes outside. I hope this helps a little. Good luck with your little dog. Oh and by the way you can pray for him too, we did and beleive it or not it really helped, God loves him too ya know.

Dovey

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Abi

Hi there!

What are you feeding your dog? You may want to read the thread Rottie had on the BARF diet.

Commercial dog food is made from very bad things which include but are not limited to euthanized pets, diseased zoo animals and rancid meat.

Please pull up the sites we suggested to her.

I work in a holistic shop and am the groomer there. I have been shopping there for 5 years prior to hire.

Also, take your dog to a holistic vet. You can do a Google search for holistic vets in your area. My dog did seem to show signs of senility prior to her death. She was 14 + .

http://www.altvetmed.com/ahvmadir.html

Solid Gold (a holistic company) sells a product that detoxifies the liver and helps with anti-aging. But again with such radical behavior changes check with your vet.

The product Nature's Miracle as mentioned seems to work best on the rug, I also swear by Febreeze.

Do you know if she got into anything such as onions or chocolate? Very toxic and deadly.

The best thing I have seen in a long life and a healthy pet are holistic.

Check out the testimony with the retriever and the sheperd and the difference holistic dog food made.

http://www.canidae.com/

I hope this helps you, you may want to private topic Jesse and see what she thinks.

I would go to a holistic vet and feed your pet holistic premium chow. Good luck, I know how much we love our pets!

Dot Matrix

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PS

Abi, when I introduced a new dog to the house "Baby" was a nervous wreck. She was fine when I brought home a little boy but when I brought home another girl it was awful.

She did pee all over the house. Then one day, I was sitting and she came over and peed on my foot.

I asked the holistic vet and he said it was submissive peeing. He said do not look at her in the eye if she tries to pee on you again.

He said she was telling me "okay you are the boss, fix things, I will behave."

I did not get rid of the new dog and Baby's behavior was never the same.

The vet told me the only thing to do was to get rid of the new dog as it was freaking her out but the new dog was a rescue who had lost 3 previous homes so I did a search on "animal behavior"

I found this guy and he said that I should make sure that Baby was still number one. I should feed her first, have her in her spot on the couch, make sure she was number one. I did that. I tried to make sure she did not feel replaced. It eased the tension but Baby was never a confident as she had been.

Good luck.

Dot Matrix

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Thank you everyone for your tips and suggestions. Here's where I'm at so far.

I decided to try the vinegar and water mix again, with a higher content of vinegar, because it is the least expensive method. It seems to be working. The boys' bedroom was smelling so bad I could barely stand putting laundry away and felt horrible tucking them in to sleep there at night - though somehow they never complained. Anyway, I didn't smell anything bad in there at all tonight.

I'm putting a gate up in front of the hallway to their room at night. I think this is when the problem is ocurring the most, as I have never actually caught him in the act. However, I do know it is him because since the weather turned nice, our husky/malamute/whatever she is, prefers to sleep outside. Scrappy is just getting too old to jump gates these days so I think this should keep him out of there.

I'm not convinced the problem is senility. My understanding is, if it were senility, he would probably be peeing all over the house instead of in just one area. It is possible he just cannot hold his bladder all night anymore, but he no longer barks at me during the day when he needs to go out, either. So I'm leaning towards one of two things. a) he is jealous/mad about Nicky coming into our home and this is his way of saying so or b) she peed there first while we were getting to know her and learn her signals. Then Scrappy, being the male he is, had to cover her scent with his own and even though she is no longer peeing there, has gotten in the habit of doing it.

Dot, I will look for the thread and check into the barf diet and holistic vet when I have a little more time.

Thanks again, everyone.

To every man his own truth and his own God within.

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I have a question??? I have a 3 year old mutt, mostly border collie and chow and a 1-2year old wolf dog. I went to Iams thinking it was the best to buy but have noticed their coats looking worse and the claims they made about the dogs wastes being less just hasn't been true. The 3 year old has been chewing herself quite a bit and the wolf dog's skin looks dry. She is also having trouble walking as if she has arthritis all ready. I really can't afford to buy expensively for the dogs or buy chicken for them daily. That would add up to almost 10 dollars a day in my estimation. I really don't have much money but will do the best I can for them. They are deeply loved and members of our household. So what can I do for them? I'm out of iams right now and am going to the store. We live in a very small town and really don't have access to to many places out here in no man's land.

I also have two cats. Everything I've given them they have been sick on. Including the iams but I have noticed they don't get sick as much with it. They love it when I open the tuna cans. LOL Boy do they go running. But cats are consistantly hungry so dry food is wonderful because I can leave it out and they can much all day.

Any suggestions for someone that really doesn't have all that money? Any tips would be great!!!!

Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!

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Iams was one of the best but was bought by a big company Pills---y (I think)

Word is all these people that were using Iams/Eukanuba for years suddenly had problems with their dogs. They had allergies, hot spots, and their coats suffered. People could not figure it out until they found out that Pills-----y changed the formula to be one of the ucky stuff I discussed earlier. Diseased meat etc. Not human grade!

You will/should find success in changing brands to Canidae (I use it), or Solid Gold, Innova, or Wellness.

Did you go to the sites I have marked for Abi?

You will see what Commercial dog food did to Willie and what holistic dog food did.

They all have cat food as well.

My friemd Gwen had a cat ehose hair all fell out and was looking pretty bad. I kept telling her to CHANGE the food. She used the Scie--e D--t which was written about in the American Holistic Journal of vetranary medicine as being "not good". In its bad company was Puri_a, Bene--l, Petigr__, Mighty D-g, Gravy Tr_in, Kibbles and bits, Pro Plan and Nutro.

She switched to Wellness and her cat ate it like there was no tommorrow. In 3 weeks the hair was coming back in and the itching stopped.

Abi

VERY possible the new dog peed and the older dog peed to put his scent there! Sounds like a winner!

Dot Matrix

[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on May 31, 2003 at 19:20.]

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I brought the BARF thread up to the top so you can see what people shared that might be helpful.

Vickles you can cook your own dog food their are recipees but IT WORE ME OUT! So, Canidae was for me. (The holistic foods are human grade)

Some info FYI:

Here it is! This is some of the holistic info!

The Best Food For Your Cat/Dog is human grade food. Fresh chicken and turkey and beef. Fresh raw vegetables (carrots and green beans) and fruits (apples and banana's for example). Brown rice and oatmeal. Fresh non-sugar yogurt, eggs, and cottage cheese. These are not "people foods." By calling fresh food "people food" makes it sound as though people are the only living creatures who need to eat fresh foods.

All living creatures love fresh foods. Your dog has a sensitive nose and taste buds. That's why he gets so excited when you take fresh food from your shopping bags. He is not begging for "people food" -- he is simply craving real food and a little variety, just as you do. Generations of dogs lived to old ages on fresh foods...before pet food companies came along.

Commercial dog food has only been around since the 1930s. Circa 1930, big cereal companies were trying to find something to do with their rejected grain...their wheat and rice and corn that did not pass USDA inspection, the reason was usually because of mold. They discovered that the meat industry faced the same problem. Leftover meat not fit for human consumption, usually because the livestock was diseased. (or parts not fit for humans such as feathers and bills)

The idea of mixing the rejects together, calling it "pet food", and making big profits off of it, was created. Clever advertising planted this term in the public's mind, but no living creature was ever intended to obtain their nutrition from a bag or can.

A well known vet says: Almost all artificial diets are based on grains and cereals. The problem is, dogs are not cows. Your dog has a short direct digestive tract meant to digest meat and protein. Grains and cereals are carbohydrates that require a longer digestive tract. Think of a cow's several stomachs and its long, winding digestive tract.

Worse than that, many dogs are allergic to grains and/or cereals. They develop chronic digestive problems, or itchy skin characterized by foot-licking or rubbing their faces. You might never think to associate these skin problems with the cereals in your dog's artificial diet.

Each day, unhappy dogs parade through veterinary offices. They suffer from rashes, itchy hotspots, foot-licking, loose stools, gas, flatulism, greasy coats, flaky skins, chronic digestive upsets. What are these dogs eating? Strong possibility it is their artificial diets.

There are two different philosophies of veterinary science. Most vets who belong to the AVMA sell Sc--- Diet. Of course, they received their nutritional training from The Company...who make Sci---- Diet. Most vets who belong to the AHVMA have done their own independent research and DO NOT recommend artificial diets.

Pet food companies and some vets will tell you: "Table scraps are bad for dogs." Now, if they mean hot dogs, chhse whiz, pizza, french fries, and buttered and salted scraps, they're right. Such greasy junk is not fresh food. Fresh food means just that. You feed the same food groups that are in artificial diets...except your ingredients have passed USDA inspection and your ingredients are based on meat, not grain. For anyone to apply the derogatory term "table scraps" to your homemade diet of fresh meats and veggies and oatmeal and other wholesome foods is absurd.

Pet food companies and some non-holistic vets will also tell you: "You will not balance each meal." No animal (or person) needs each and every meal balanced. No living creature eats like that.

We simply eat a variety of good foods. General balance occurs over weeks and months. The concept of a "complete and balanced diet" is a marketing gimmick to persuade you that you're too dumb to feed a dog.

That would come as a shock to your ancestors. They had no problems doing it. Their dogs lived 15 to 20 years on good meaty bones, vegetable stews, and whole-grain breads.

Did you know according to a Holistic Vet Med journal, that most commercial dog food companies accept meat that has come from campaigns to erradicate disease form zoo or farm animals. It can contain, although marginal, cadavors of euthanized pets. They also buy the VERY out dated parcels of meat from stores. The meat is in packages the same way we purchase the meat. That meat is then thrown into the preperation with the wrappers and styrofoam plate still on it.

You folks maybe interested in Canidae, Wellness, PHD or solid Gold dog or cat food. It is made from human grade meats and other wholesome ingredients. There are also recipes you can make dog/cat food from. Remember NO onions in pet food. (and no chocolate)

If you are interested you can locate a holistic Vet through the internet. I changed to a holistic vet 5/6 years ago and it saved my pets lives at the time. One was loaded with hot spots and the other had extrememly dry skin and trouble walking (there was no oil in the grocery store pet food Petig---- I had been feeding them.)

If you have animals please take the time to investigate this information.

Dot Matrix

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This is all so new to me. I had thought I knew quite a bit about animals since I'm around them all the time. What is a holistic vet? I looked up some of the addy's that was posted and it looks like there isn't any in minnesota.

Isn't it rather expensive to feed them regular food? My wolf dog is very big. Goes up to my waist and standing on his hind legs is about 6'3. I think he could eat one of our whole meals. I haven't really investagated the price differences. My other dog is rather on the big side also.

Also, dot, I'm thinking about shaving my border collie/chow mix for the summer. Is this a good idea? I have heard that wolf mixes is not good to shave but he also looks rather pitiful right now.

Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!

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The truth about cats and dogs............ icon_smile.gif:)-->

Vickles, the cat thing I may be able to help you out a bit with. I've had cats most of my life, until we got the husky anyway.

Are your cats long haired or short haired? Do they shed a lot? How old are they? Indoor only or indoor/outdoor?

Cats who shed a lot, long or short haired, tend to get hair balls. This can be very very bad or it can be no big deal. They need to throw up to get the hair balls out. Most pet supply stores sell an "ointment" you can feed to them to help them pass the hair balls. If you prefer a more natural remedy you can purchase a little planter to grow grass in. They will eat the grass and throw up, but this gets the fur balls out.

Additionally, some older cats have a difficult time chewing hard food. It is not absolutely necessary to leave food out for them all day long, they can learn to eat at certain times of day. However, the hard food is good for their teeth.

So, if they are older cats, what you could do is feed them each about 1/2 a can of cat food twice a day or if they will eat it, mix some water with the hard food. Then leave the hard food out for them to munch on. This insures they are getting the food they need and still helps keep their teeth cleaned. I don't recommend mixing the wet and dry food because you will probably find yourself throwing away a lot of food this way.

Also, make sure they don't have fleas. Cats tend to be more tolerant of fleas than dogs. Somehow fleas know this and will leave the dogs and go after the cats. Some cats can be very sensitive to fleas and lose hair. I had this happen to a cat. I had to bath her with special shampoo for several days to relieve her skin of the rash caused by the fleas.

To every man his own truth and his own God within.

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abigail, These cats are indoor cats totally. They have short fur and don't shed all that much. At least I don't think so I just see all the fur from my border collie/chow mix dog. Boy, its a heck of a lot. lol Anyways, I don't think its the hairballs. Some different foods will make them throwup more. I mean some of it is the hairballs I'm sure. For instance, Yesterday I bought them a different brand of cat food (dry) and it made them immediately throw up. Thankfully I bought a small bag for them. I got them when they were older and found that everything the previous owner said about them was false. For instance, she told me a certain brand of food was all they have ever had but that certain brand got them sick. I'm wondering if it is the food and what I can give them that their tummies can handle. Canned food, is that richer? They will not eat regular food unless its got milk in it or tuna. I don't want to give them milk products and have a more mess on my hands.

Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!

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Vickels

Try Felidae by Canidae or Wellness. See if it helps the kitties.

Holistic Vets are like holistic Doctors they try natural remedies and investigate nutrition.

For example:

My dog sprained her leg and the regular vet gave her a traq. to calm her and keep from walking on it. This pill put her into endless seizures for hours.

I took her to the holistic vet and he said dogs have died from that traq. (I later confirmed this with a Google search)

He gave her an herb which calmed her down. He said the other tranq. made her unable to function which scares the dog as they try to fight the affects. The herb calms them.

He was right.

Shaving is your choice. People say not to do it to chows as the hair makes them cooler. My chow mix pants and is miserable so I shave him. Then, he is happy.

The better food is a bit more but will save you in vet bills and heartbreak. I found Canidae to be a lttle cheaper than the others.

You can search the American Holistic Veternarian Journal address and write them for one in your area.

Regular vets and holistic ones do have a chasm between them as they do in our people world.

Dot Matrix

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Vickels

Private post, I did find a list of holistic vets I sent to you there.

Abi - If a cat has hairballs a friend of mine said her vet suggested to have the cat eat a little vasoline. Is that true? I know very little on the subject.

[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on June 02, 2003 at 9:42.]

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Dots, based on your reccommendation, I've been feeding Canidae to our dog, and Felidae to our cats.

I haven't noticed a difference in the dog - his name is Frisky, and it's a well-deserved name, so if there was a difference, it would be a negative one. Oh, there is a bit of a difference - his food doesn't sit for a couple of days before he gets to it. I used to have to ALWAYS add something to his food before he would eat it, but now I only add stuff when I feel like giving him a bit of a treat. But the cats are sure a lot less finicky.

Of course, one of them is pregnant, and due to give birth within a couple of weeks, so she'll eat just about anything.

One really nice thing about Felidae is that it is formulated for all life stages of a cat, from kittenhood to adulthood, so I don't need to buy special kitten chow for the queen.

Yes, it's a bit more expensive, but I don't mind paying the extra few dollars, because the animals seem to enjoy their food more.

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Steve:

It just blows my mind that food makes this big of a difference! But it does!

The cats know good food when they taste it! icon_wink.gif;)-->

I hear success stories a lot at the shop. I am so glad there is a way to help our pets, I had been desperate to help my pets before I knew I was killing them with bad food.

Now, I feel good when I feed them and see the results!

Thanks for the post.

Dot Matrix

[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on June 02, 2003 at 11:10.]

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Chinny

No sh!t!

Steve:

Was your dog having visable problems before the switch? Like mine had hot spots that cleared up and the other's fur was VERY dry and her legs were giving out so the difference was very noticable.

If your dog was fine and you switched you will prob. see the results later when they stay healthy and live longer.

dogs.gif

edit because my picture vanished.

Dot Matrix

[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on June 02, 2003 at 16:40.]

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