Like Mindedness – At What Cost?

[Belle]

What makes people in TWI, especially leaders, live with the sacrifice of doctrinal accuracy in lieu of being like-minded? I am aware of those on the inside still clinging to a naive notion that most TWIt leaders are "good people" albeit deceived and misguided, therefore not recognizing the contradiction of how they’re living.

The thing that seems to keep wrong doctrine and wrong behavior perpetuated is the idea that unity is more important than truth. They read I Cor 1:10 and say how important it is to be of the same mind and same judgment – but the underlying message is - hold fast to the status quo - because we are supposed to be likeminded - and one day, hopefully, it will change. I wonder if this is a philosophy promoted by the Moynihans and many others who do recognize what is wrong but refuse to push for change. I know for a fact that Moynihan cowers in the face of some of the folks at hq despite knowing that they are bloody wrong.

I know I, too, have been wrong in the past - especially blindly following craiggers. I also know I fought the doctrinal errors and legalistic controlling bullsh1t for years – sometimes very blatantly and boldly, other times, very subtly – none of it worked because they don’t really want change and they don’t really care about fixing the problems.

Some folks on the inside really believe that most of these Way leaders are not knowingly manipulative. They feel like they have bought into something, and spent much of their life promoting a thing which they secretly doubt. If anyone challenges what they believe or even asks too many questions (questions don't have to equal a challenge, do they?) they may be tolerant for a bit but will turn accusative and hostile. This is their self defense because they simply cannot back their arguments with logic. I think most of us have encountered this. Bottom line, they just accept, they don't ask questions because they are terrified of the answers they might find.

There’s really no excuse for deceiving and lying to God's people; enslaving God's people; bringing them to and keeping them involved with a group that they know is pure evil and they know deep down is wrong. If they want to stick their head in the sand - that's one thing, but continuing to deceive the elect of God? Not anything I want to have to answer for at the Bema.

I bring this up because I’m quite aware of some new lurkers who are still involved with TWI but beginning to water down the kool-aid. Any advice from the counter or the booths?

[shortfuse]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[waysider]

I suppose if we ALL "jumped off the bridge" we would be likeminded.( paraphrasing Mom's advise)

[coolchef]

amen and amen belle

[RumRunner]

I suppose if we ALL "jumped off the bridge" we would be likeminded.( paraphrasing Mom's advise)

My preferred version is "Eat $h(t - ten billion flies can't all be wrong"

[templelady]

Obviously if you belong to an organiztion, any poorganization, you must agree with its goals or why would you belong in that sense people are like minded. TWI carried that to extremes insisting on a lockstep mentality.

As Frank BUrns said in one episode of M*A*S*H

"It's okay to be individuals as long as we are individuals in the same way"

which pretty well sums up TWI

[waysider]

RR---------I like your version better .(Just not sure that "Mom" would.)

[washingtonweather]

Oh Belle...I will be back to elaborate on this....its near midnight right now, but oh man -- this is definately one of the sociopathic qualities of TWI. Hilter demanded likemindedness..Ghanghis Khan demanded likemindedness, Sadam Hussein demanded likemindedness......to disguise it as a quality of Godliness using quotes from the apostle Paul is sheer blasphemy. They won't allow anyone to thik for themselves to really understand on what level that like mindedness is existing.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Likeminded at what cost?

Back in 1987 when I sat down with a twi clergy guy and showed him where twi was wrong on many things...he actually admitted that I was right!...

...But then he went on to remind me that twi "provides for me a platform to teach to others" and if I walked away, I would lose that! Can you imagine? His logic was...even if twi is wrong in what they teach, they still provided me with an audience to proclaim those wrong teachings to!!!

...I reminded him that God is the one who opens doors and brings people who are hungering and thirsting...apparently he didn't really believe that because he chose to remain with twi and keep his position and his audience...

Likeminded?...It would seem to me that even today, there are people in twi who have titles and positions of authority...who KNOW that twi is wrong! They will not admit it because they would no longer be the big frog in the little pond...they would no longer have flunkies at their beck and call, hanging on every word from their holy lips...

I call THESE people gutless wonders...Likeminded believers?...a$$ kissing spit suckers is more like it.

[shortfuse]

I Corinthians 1:10 has been a verse used to silence criticism, and compel people to elevate unity (or rather its appearance) above truth. It occurs to me that this verse, so many others in TWI, has been ripped from its context and given a meaning not intended by the Author. Read the passage below. Is it not speaking of a specific type of divisions in the church? It seems more a condemnation of following a man, or a denomenation instead of following Christ. Anyone else see it this way?

1Cr 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be

perfectly joined together

in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1Cr 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that

there are contentions among you

.

1Cr 1:12 Now this I say, that

every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas

; and I of Christ.

1Cr 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

1Cr 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

1Cr 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

1Cr 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

1Cr 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Not trying to derail or get all "doctrinal", but it seems to fit with the subject at hand.

[Twinky]

I1Cr 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1:12b and I of TWI

1Cr 1:13 Is Christ divided?

Yes, definitely, if you follow any kind of (dare we say?) cult. That's what makes a cult. Did you see the thread on works of the flesh - one of which specifically states "cults" !!

(Sorry, I added a bit there - damn me through eternity)

But should Christ be divided? Not by those walking in love...

Edited September 8, 2006 by Twinky

[GT]

I haven't read this thread yet, but I have one question:

Is "mindedness" even a word?

[ChasUFarley]

I haven't read this thread yet, but I have one question:

Is "mindedness" even a word?

Yes it is.

mind·ed (mndd) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "mindedness" [P]

adj.

1. Disposed; inclined: I am not minded to answer any of your questions.

2. Having a specified kind of mind. Often used in combination: fair-minded; evil-minded.

3. Directed or oriented toward something specified. Often used in combination: civic-minded; career-minded.

minded·ness n.

(Download Now or Buy the Book)

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

[My3Cents]

Oh Belle...I will be back to elaborate on this....its near midnight right now, but oh man -- this is definately one of the sociopathic qualities of TWI. Hilter demanded likemindedness..Ghanghis Khan demanded likemindedness, Sadam Hussein demanded likemindedness.....

I never had any experience being lead by these people. But it seems the current US administration values likemindedness too.

[likeaneagle]

Geesh, Belle, it cost us too much..money cannot buy it back.

[rhino]

I never had any experience being lead by these people. But it seems the current US administration values likemindedness too.

Good grief ... it seems some have left the way cult to join that democrat cult ... just a vague slam at Bush? I dislike him on some things like open borders, but how does this relate to this thread. And what likemindedness are you talking about? ... or could you just not pass up the chance to compare Bush to Hitler, Ghangis (sic), and Sadam (more sic) all in one shot? I thought you came here to find out what ex twi people were doing now. This sounds more like a politics and tacks comment. Why not stop by there?

Oh, and I shoulda sold all my accounts to you, that like-minded body of christ turkey that I was helping never paid me a dime (maybe $25 or so, I forget) ... Anyway, hope all is swell.

If we all drank grape koolaid and jumped off a bridge ... we'd be "likemindead" Yes greasy, it is a word, I just made it up :) The like-mindedness thing is just a rationalization for staying where you/they are comfortable. I guess it relates to the hold in abeyance all your questions till later ... like am I still s'posed to be waiting? If twi really helped people, it wouldn't be bad, but it is mostly just a way to manipulate them and hold them captive while they are being fleeced.

Edited September 11, 2006 by rhino

[likeaneagle]

well, for sure alot of my likemindedness did die!!!!! Im working on it...lol

THis part I try to keep alive, is the greater love I do know and its priceless and I wont let it die.

Edited September 11, 2006 by likeaneagle

[jardinero]

"Likemindeadness"

Pretty funny, Bill.

J.

[templelady]

it seems some have left the way cult to join that democrat cult

Labeling ----a prime TWI methodology for expousing the us (likeminded) vs them (not likeminded in the same way we are)

Edited September 12, 2006 by templelady

[Belle]

If we all drank grape koolaid and jumped off a bridge ... we'd be "likemindead" Yes greasy, it is a word, I just made it up :) The like-mindedness thing is just a rationalization for staying where you/they are comfortable. I guess it relates to the hold in abeyance all your questions till later ... like am I still s'posed to be waiting? If twi really helped people, it wouldn't be bad, but it is mostly just a way to manipulate them and hold them captive while they are being fleeced.

Excellent! When we are required to be "likemindead" at the expense of discussion, debate, individuality, self-expression, questioning and all the "normal" thoughts people have - we do become brain dead.

That's what TWI wanted, what Hitler and the others wanted - (Can't wait to see your elaboration on this WW!) - When people are no longer allowed to question things, debate or look deeper into subjects, they are more easily controlled and manipulated. Why else would vee pee ask folks to give up tv, radio and newspapers? Craiggers yelled that if we needed to know something HE would tell us, but that we shouldn't be wasting our time and brain cells on that egg sucking worldly sh1t.

Another reason why I have thoroughly enjoyed learning more from you greasespots and your paths, journeys and ventures into the big universe of religion, spirituality and thinking. :) When people are free to express themselves, question others, debate (nicely), and just plain discuss things - we can learn so much, even if we don't agree with it; it still offers a different perspective and encourages appreciation for what we do believe and so much more.