I will third washingtonweather and Belle on that book.
Having said that, if your girlfriend is a committed TWI person, she will not be able to hear anything you say. Being involved with a TWI person is not the same as being involved with a Lutheran or a Methodist or even a Muslim. Live and let live is not part of TWI philosophy. Ask Belle. She can tell you far more about that than I ever could.
I asked you how proficient you were in apologetics, not that you would try to convert her to Catholicism, but because you will need those skills to defend your own beliefs against the constant barrage they will receive from her and the other TWI people. They will use lies, half-truths, and distortions to try to convince you out of your faith. If you are really serious about staying with her, you had better be very strong in your own faith, because you are guaranteeing that it will absolutely come under strong attack. If they are not successful, I can also absolutely guarantee that her leadership will eventually demand that she make a choice: you or them. If she is a true TWI-er, you will lose.
That's why I say the best thing you can do is to offer prayers for her conversion. I am not suggesting that the conversion be to Catholicism. But she is not in control of her own mind. She may seem that way but her lexicon and frame of mind sound, based upon your description, to have been totally twisted into the TWI mentality. She needs to have her mind freed so that she is capable of considering any evidence that you are able to present.
Consider the basic elements of the Nicene Creed. I will assure you that she would become visibly agitated if you brought up any of the articles of that Creed other than the first article. She would probably start yelling and might walk out of the room if you brought up the Athanasian Creed. Shoot, in all likelihood, she would probably argue with the Apostle's Creed.
Ask her about what she thinks of the directive shown in Matthew 28:19 (link). if you want to do an experiment. Before doing so, ask yourself if that verse should be at all controversial at all. Even if you are not serious in your faith anymore, you should check her reaction to the creeds and to that one verse. I think that you would find both reactions very illuminating.
Ryan, it's sooo easy to nail it on the head because 1) I lived it, 2) Others on here have lived it, 3) that's how predictable people in TWI are. It's because they aren't allowed to be themselves. They have to live the company line and the model of the TWI lifestyle makes robots out of people. It's when the robots start thinking on their own that they become trouble and heavily watched. The leadership also steps up the life micro-management.
People involved with TWI are stepford believers. You will not find a "casual" TWIt like you do in 'normal' churches. It's not allowed. You have to ramp up and sell out pretty quickly or you become persona non grata. It's not allowed to just come to fellowship whenever you want to, no matter how infrquently that may be. You will eventually be pressured to "take the class" and that won't be enough because eventually they'll pressure you to take the next class and then the next class. You'll also be pressured to attend various and sundry expensive "spiritually important" events and meetings. Then there's always the Way Disciple program and the Way Corps if you really want to please God and be oh, so spiritual and much more "powerfully" spiritually, taught the "deeper things of the word" (Notice, it's called "the word" not the Bible. People in TWI very seldom use the word "Bible")
TWI doctrine and legalism is a perfect example of all the mind control studies that you may have heard about. "Stockholm Syndrome", Patti Hearst, "The Stanford Prison Experiment", etc.
People in TWI are no different from the Jim Jones, David Koresh, Comet Riders, etc. The only difference between the groups is that TWI hasn't passed around the kool-aid yet. The people left in TWI would drink the kool-aid. :(
Ryan, here's a thread that'll make your skin crawl. Note this is credible information with lots of witnesses. This is also only ONE example of many, too many incidents like this in TWI.
This kind of stuff still goes on. The same people are still in power. By ignoring things like this your girlfriend is blatantly dis-obeying the order from Jesus to be harmless as doves, yet wise as serpents. Not to mention all the other commands that they teach about regarding confronting and avoiding fellowship with darkness and folks who obviously are not leadership quality based on their own teachings on the qualifications of a leader.
moryan, I'd seriously consider not going to a twi fellowship if I were you. they'll act nice and sweet with the sole objective of finding your weaknesses... you seem smart enough to withstand it, but my question is why bother. your girlfriend sounds very emotionally invested in twi, and that means your relationship with her will always revolve around twi. she will view you and your character and your beliefs through twi-colored glasses.
I was in for 20 years. I just got out a few months ago, and one of the things that helped me get out was at the tail end of my three-year process, I was seeing a very nice catholic man.... I felt like I was living a double life because I didn't want the twi people to know about him. why? because I didn't want them to get involved and ruin it for me. if they knew about him, I'd be constantly harrassed about bringing him to fellowship and getting him to take the class... so my question to myself was, why would I want to bring him to something that I don't believe in myself? it took 6 months beyond that to get brave enough to cut the ties with twi.
btw, I've raised my kids to understand santa is pretend. I think it's important for them to know the difference between fantasy and reality. that was my belief before twi because of my childhood experience, but it's not for everone... just another perspective on something.
...Friday, the eve before our 6month anniversary was the worst night of my life...
She is yet to go to it, because until 5 days ago she had no idea one existed here....I told her I would be happy to go with her and support her and be there for her, plus I wanted to see first hand for myself what goes on and see how excepting they are of me.......
6 month "anniversary"???
I had to read that twice... at first i thought... he must have meant 6 year...
look... just go with her... i will be willing to bet that the fellowship is full of a bunch of harmless nice folks.
It's not like you are walking into a satanic ritual where you have to cut your wrists and drink the blood of a virgin.
Go with her, talk to her and the people about what you believe, listen to what they believe.
If the different beliefs are going to be a problem, then your 6 month relationship just might have to end.
And if it ends you just move on... Trust me on this one man, if this chick is too into her religion to listen to what others have to say... i dont care what religion it is... she's not going to work out unless you kiss her foot and believe what her religion says.
come on ... your a biologist... be honest with her. don't fight her on what she thinks (its her right). If she wants to fight with you.. don't fight back..
just be a man and say "sorry, this isn't working out. I'm going to have to move on.. I hope you find what you're looking for."
And if she does accept that you think different, then let the relationship go on.
good luck with it man...
PS
I grew up in TWI... left when i was about 24... I know how you feel... When I left I lost friends to TWI... It hurt real bad... But I grew from it. You'll grow from this.
When I was first introduced to The Way about 35 years ago, it was by a small group of young people who were out "witnessing"(recruiting). Almost immediately, one young lady in the group took a special interest in me and we began a one on one relationship that was platonic but personal and intense. She signed me up for "the class" and personally "undershepherded" me. At about the midway point of the class(Which at that time was a total commitment of three weeks of time) I discovered quite by accident that she was actually the fiance of the person conducting the class. All these people(except the other students ) were completely aware of the deception that was being perpetrated. By this time(and we're only talking about a few weeks) I was already so sold on the "ministry" that I considered my relationship to her secondary to The Way and this amazing new take on life that they offered. Now, I'm not suggesting this is what has happened in your case. What I am asking though is whether an organization that would use such dubious tactics is one that you would want to become a part of? And yet I stayed for too many more years than I care to admit! That's how powerful mind control can be.
I hate to come straight to the point, but if your girlfriend has the opinion of twi that you've stated, then it's too late; she's gone. Move on, it's the best thing for your sanity.
And what the folk are posting here is true; twi, once they find any weakness in a relationship/marriage, they will work overtime to do their best to split it up & they will twist the Bible & paint any/everyone as evil or possesed to suit their evil purposes. You can show her copies of court documents... big deal: their answer is the adversary controls the world & the 'Net. You're Catholic...they'll go to her & throw the "unequally yoked" line at her, & do it with a loving smile. And inserting themselves in your family is their forte.
I met my wife in the way & we were married for 5 years in...BEFORE we married she was "advised" not to marry me because I hadn't taken one of their sorry classes she'd graduated from ( I wasn't spiritual enough for her...).
I realize you may care deeply for this girl, but once leaders#!t found out you're a RC (as they referred to Catholics), then they put on a full court press on your girlfriend. Walk away.
Ask her - challenge her -if she would still love you - respect you - if you followed a different set of beliefs from what she believes, and vice versa.
Establish right now with her whether or not she would exercise as much tolerance and respect toward what you choose to believe as you would toward her.
People of different faiths do marry . These arrangements can work, but only where there is the commitment between the partners to exercise mutual toleration and respect for one another with personal/religious/mystical beliefs.
If she says she will exercise this same toleration toward you (you might ask her), will her group?
And if they don't...? - is the hypothesis you both must pose to her, and both need to consider.
Ryan, I know you are seeking what to do. I will not tell you what to do, you now have of freedom will, she is conned like we here at Greasespot, we thought we had all of the answers,not. To ditch this relationship is like a bandade on a bad wound. Yes it hurts. Just rip it off! You decide your fate. I spent most of my youth to this organization and I do not question my commitment. I am hurt I found out what was going on behind the scenes unbeknowst to me and many others. We did it to serve. I do not think what I did in serving will ever go without reward. YOu would be better off to go out and talk to a tree. She aint going to hear anything towards the Way, I was there been there done that.
I am not trying to change her faith, nor to even make her convert/quit the way, I just want her to at least see from another viewpoint....
If she is deeply involved with The Way, I'm afraid that is an impossibility. People who are inflicted with "waybrain" have stopped considering other viewpoints and have abandoned critical thinking.
It's only a matter of time before her "Way" leadership gives her an ultimatum that YOU need to convert and join their ranks or else she will be told to break up with you...she will be ostracized otherwise.
It may be difficult for you, but breaking up with her is probably your best option...
I am blessed for everyone taking the time to give me these comments of encouragement to do what is right, rather than just simply bending or mending my ways and beliefs to try and stay happy. As far as why they are mailing it to her, she said that she had to send them a normal letter in the mail to begin with because she couldn't find an email address or phone number posted anywhere and that they prefer to use regular mail over the others, why? I have NO idea, seemed really odd to me....So she is sitting and watching the mailbox, waiting for the contact info for the local fellowship. She has been filled with immense negativity and anger lately, most of which has been directed towards me. She feels when we both go back home for the holidays (to seperate places) that between that and getting to go to fellowship after the Holidays might make her return to her old self again, yet she hasn't been to a fellowship in like a year I believe. The other thing I am trying to figure out is, she always says, "I hope this is a good Fellowship...." She even admits how she has been to others that the people are just......then she just kind of leaves it at that, I think it is her sweeping her thoughts against the way back under the rug in her mind.
Here is the thing you have to consider - along with the sound advice given by many.
For this young lady - getting involved with you has a two-fold purpose: she has a boyfriend and she has someone new she can introduce to her group ("Ministry' is the word she'll say.)
She's in a quandry as well. She probablly likes you, but also has this need to get someone new to fellowship.
The felllowship will be harmless enough if you decide to go. Folks will be nice and sweet and even engaging. But, all the while you most probably will be scrutinized. After you and she leave, she will most likely talk to someone and they will give her their "spiritual opinion" - so to speak.
Is this really a relationship that you want? It will not be just you and her. It will be you and her and all those folks in your business for as long as you are a couple. Think BAD IN_LAWS multiplied by a thousand - and it won't matter if you're married or not - they will have an opinion and talk about you to her and her to you - but never to the person in question directly.
IMHO you should end this relationship. You're young - most of us here are much, much older and we know where this ship is sailing. As I see it, this is not a healthy way to begin a relationship. It never works when two people go into a relationship expecting the other to change.
If you decide to try and see if it can work - well then keep your radar way way up! Listen for all those catch phrases and warning signs you've been given. No matter what, it will come out eventually.
The other thing I am trying to figure out is, she always says, "I hope this is a good Fellowship...." She even admits how she has been to others that the people are just......then she just kind of leaves it at that, I think it is her sweeping her thoughts against the way back under the rug in her mind.
I can supply the end of that sentence, having lived it...
"mean" "demanding" "emotionally abusive". some are nice but uninvolved, and some are simply "nosy" and "meddling".
to your other question, the reason that you can't find addresses or phone numbers is because they don't want people contacting them unless they're prescreened and stamped with someone's approval so their time isn't wasted. you can't even call their HQ. they don't want to talk to you unless you're committed.
I can't tell you anything the others haven't already said here... but... if you'd like to an indication of how it will all "pan out" go to a fellowship with her... and ask (in a loud enough voice to be overheard by others there)... ask them the questions about TWI...
When they give you the same "canned" answers your girlfriend gives you, delve deeper... and also ask them how come they all have the same answers... is it because it's what they've been told to say? ...do they not think for themselves? ...how can they ignore all of the messes that have NOT EVER been dealt with but merely brushed under the rug?
or don't... just remember, you cannot think of this (as others have said) as just two people from different denominations... it's not like that, it never will be...
Your situation actually sounds a little odd my friend. She doesn't currently go to a fellowship, and she is being sent information via mail. Weird.. When I was in the Way (Just a few years ago), those people weren't considered really even believers. Not going to fellowship?! We were suppose to let them know when we moved (actually get their advice even!), have the state(limb) corrdinator call the other state coordinator and make sure we were hooked up when we arrived at the new location. I have never in my life heard of waiting on them to mail something. Typical thing that would happen would be they would get your name and address and phone # and have someone local contact you. Mail?! You really sure about that? Because I think she could be waiting an aweful long time if that is the case. No one I know at HQ mails fellowship information. If they have your address, there will be a knock!
Course, I look at the bright side. If she said she wasn't really "thrilled" about her old fellowship. And she certainly doesn't seem to be fully involved (because she wouldn't be without a fellowship for longer thn a month, that's their lifeline), you actually may just be alright.
I certainly wouldn't run away. There is nothing to be scared of as long as you are informed and never forget what is true. In fact, if you are a true friend, you ought to be there till the end to try and help her. Be the one example that has a level mind and knows what is going on. Trust me, if she is that close to you, she will listen. Sure she is like many in the Way that think their theology is to die for, but so do many that leave the Way. That's just a sign of someone who has fear. Fear of looking at the other side and possibly being wrong. Don't worry about it bro. Be her friend. Take care of her. Help her. That's what we are all here for. TO help one another. To encourage, and lift one another up. Not to run away the moment something rough comes along. Be tough, be a man. But don't forget what is true.
When I was in the Way. I remember the first month people were calling Headquarters their home. And I remember telling another person that was pretty new in the ministry that if I ever started saying that same thing, to kill me. That friend always reminded me of that when I'd talk to her. We lost touch over the years, but I still remembered. Just never forget what The Way. It is a man made ministry, ran by men, with men's thinking taught to willing receipients. It is not a replacement for God. GOd is our Heavenly Father, and our relationship with Him has nothing to do with what any man made ministry does.
That's my advice. ANd it may be different than everyone else. But the love of God that is true is the type of love that one is willing to give of themselves to another to help another without the selfish motivation of receiving back. Show her what the true love of GOd is. Because I can guarentee, the Way will not.
Just to clarify though.. In case some were thinking I am talking about letting her walk all over him. I'm not.. I'm just suggesting that he doesn't "run away" as some have suggested because she is in the way. I know a number of gals, even Corps gals, who listened to ex-wayers and ended up leaving. And leaving people just because of their association is definitely not showing people the same love God showed you in sending His son to die for you.
I'm not saying we die for people that abuse us. But if she ain't abusing you, walking over you like a mat, then why would you run? Just keep your mind on who they are, and you can be the light that helps her.
You are the only one in this equation who can protect your heart. And you must do that. Once your girlfriend gets back to fellowship, she may get talked out of your relationship because you are not a believer (according to TWI terms). Don't let your heart get broken. Your girlfriend is very aware of this mentality if she's been part of TWI for any amount of time.
You sound like a very nice guy who deserves better than some waybrained confused girl who yells like a banchee every time you bring up questions about her religion. Please save yourself from the grief you will encounter. My intent is not to sound negative. You need to protect you from the meddling which will happen once she gets back to fellowship.
With TWI in the way, your relationship doesn't stand a chance. She will start questioning your relationship because she won't be able to reconcile the thoughts about your ability to be her head without the rightly divided Word. She will feel guilt, and your relationship will be on the down side of the balances. If she gets involved with them and you are planning to get married, she will be immensely bothered about not having a "ministry" wedding. It will be a vicious crazy circle.
By now, or tomorrow night at any rate, some one at TWI headquarters will have read this and "communicated" with her family or fellowship leader, they will have figured out who she is and started to drive a wedge between you and her.
This is as predictable as the sun rising in the east, and setting in the west.
And you can bet your bottom dollar twi won't *snail mail* THIS info.
If I keep my mouth shut and bite my tongue, everything is fine, if I open my mouth and challenge anything, SHE FLIES OFF THE HANDLE and goes CRAZY that I would ever challenge her beliefs in the way.
.
Doesn't sound to me like the start of a healthy relationship.
If I keep my mouth shut and bite my tongue, everything is fine, if I open my mouth and challenge anything, SHE FLIES OFF THE HANDLE and goes CRAZY that I would ever challenge her beliefs in the way.
If this is 'the way' you want to live the rest of your life, more power to you. However, I think you'll find saying "Yes, Dear" will eventually get under your skin and it will turn into something less loving. Something along the lines of, "F U, DEAR"
ryan please if you go to a fellowship with her don't drink the kool aid! i honestly believe they would if they were told to of course there would be some scripture justifing it
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washingtonweather
http://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Power-Spiritu...TF8&s=books
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/main/lawsuit-main.htm
Moryan...have you ever read Plato's "The Cave?"
people in TWI are allegorical to people in that story.
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washingtonweather
If B&N doesn'thave it, most christian bookstores have a copy or two...amazon ships fast, i buy a lot from them....all my text books.
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markomalley
I will third washingtonweather and Belle on that book.
Having said that, if your girlfriend is a committed TWI person, she will not be able to hear anything you say. Being involved with a TWI person is not the same as being involved with a Lutheran or a Methodist or even a Muslim. Live and let live is not part of TWI philosophy. Ask Belle. She can tell you far more about that than I ever could.
I asked you how proficient you were in apologetics, not that you would try to convert her to Catholicism, but because you will need those skills to defend your own beliefs against the constant barrage they will receive from her and the other TWI people. They will use lies, half-truths, and distortions to try to convince you out of your faith. If you are really serious about staying with her, you had better be very strong in your own faith, because you are guaranteeing that it will absolutely come under strong attack. If they are not successful, I can also absolutely guarantee that her leadership will eventually demand that she make a choice: you or them. If she is a true TWI-er, you will lose.
That's why I say the best thing you can do is to offer prayers for her conversion. I am not suggesting that the conversion be to Catholicism. But she is not in control of her own mind. She may seem that way but her lexicon and frame of mind sound, based upon your description, to have been totally twisted into the TWI mentality. She needs to have her mind freed so that she is capable of considering any evidence that you are able to present.
Consider the basic elements of the Nicene Creed. I will assure you that she would become visibly agitated if you brought up any of the articles of that Creed other than the first article. She would probably start yelling and might walk out of the room if you brought up the Athanasian Creed. Shoot, in all likelihood, she would probably argue with the Apostle's Creed.
Ask her about what she thinks of the directive shown in Matthew 28:19 (link). if you want to do an experiment. Before doing so, ask yourself if that verse should be at all controversial at all. Even if you are not serious in your faith anymore, you should check her reaction to the creeds and to that one verse. I think that you would find both reactions very illuminating.
As I said, prayers for her conversion.
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Belle
Ryan, it's sooo easy to nail it on the head because 1) I lived it, 2) Others on here have lived it, 3) that's how predictable people in TWI are. It's because they aren't allowed to be themselves. They have to live the company line and the model of the TWI lifestyle makes robots out of people. It's when the robots start thinking on their own that they become trouble and heavily watched. The leadership also steps up the life micro-management.
People involved with TWI are stepford believers. You will not find a "casual" TWIt like you do in 'normal' churches. It's not allowed. You have to ramp up and sell out pretty quickly or you become persona non grata. It's not allowed to just come to fellowship whenever you want to, no matter how infrquently that may be. You will eventually be pressured to "take the class" and that won't be enough because eventually they'll pressure you to take the next class and then the next class. You'll also be pressured to attend various and sundry expensive "spiritually important" events and meetings. Then there's always the Way Disciple program and the Way Corps if you really want to please God and be oh, so spiritual and much more "powerfully" spiritually, taught the "deeper things of the word" (Notice, it's called "the word" not the Bible. People in TWI very seldom use the word "Bible")
TWI doctrine and legalism is a perfect example of all the mind control studies that you may have heard about. "Stockholm Syndrome", Patti Hearst, "The Stanford Prison Experiment", etc.
People in TWI are no different from the Jim Jones, David Koresh, Comet Riders, etc. The only difference between the groups is that TWI hasn't passed around the kool-aid yet. The people left in TWI would drink the kool-aid. :(
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Belle
Ryan, here's a thread that'll make your skin crawl. Note this is credible information with lots of witnesses. This is also only ONE example of many, too many incidents like this in TWI.
This kind of stuff still goes on. The same people are still in power. By ignoring things like this your girlfriend is blatantly dis-obeying the order from Jesus to be harmless as doves, yet wise as serpents. Not to mention all the other commands that they teach about regarding confronting and avoiding fellowship with darkness and folks who obviously are not leadership quality based on their own teachings on the qualifications of a leader.
Driven to Suicide
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potato
moryan, I'd seriously consider not going to a twi fellowship if I were you. they'll act nice and sweet with the sole objective of finding your weaknesses... you seem smart enough to withstand it, but my question is why bother. your girlfriend sounds very emotionally invested in twi, and that means your relationship with her will always revolve around twi. she will view you and your character and your beliefs through twi-colored glasses.
I was in for 20 years. I just got out a few months ago, and one of the things that helped me get out was at the tail end of my three-year process, I was seeing a very nice catholic man.... I felt like I was living a double life because I didn't want the twi people to know about him. why? because I didn't want them to get involved and ruin it for me. if they knew about him, I'd be constantly harrassed about bringing him to fellowship and getting him to take the class... so my question to myself was, why would I want to bring him to something that I don't believe in myself? it took 6 months beyond that to get brave enough to cut the ties with twi.
btw, I've raised my kids to understand santa is pretend. I think it's important for them to know the difference between fantasy and reality. that was my belief before twi because of my childhood experience, but it's not for everone... just another perspective on something.
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nandon
6 month "anniversary"???
I had to read that twice... at first i thought... he must have meant 6 year...
look... just go with her... i will be willing to bet that the fellowship is full of a bunch of harmless nice folks.
It's not like you are walking into a satanic ritual where you have to cut your wrists and drink the blood of a virgin.
Go with her, talk to her and the people about what you believe, listen to what they believe.
If the different beliefs are going to be a problem, then your 6 month relationship just might have to end.
And if it ends you just move on... Trust me on this one man, if this chick is too into her religion to listen to what others have to say... i dont care what religion it is... she's not going to work out unless you kiss her foot and believe what her religion says.
come on ... your a biologist... be honest with her. don't fight her on what she thinks (its her right). If she wants to fight with you.. don't fight back..
just be a man and say "sorry, this isn't working out. I'm going to have to move on.. I hope you find what you're looking for."
And if she does accept that you think different, then let the relationship go on.
good luck with it man...
PS
I grew up in TWI... left when i was about 24... I know how you feel... When I left I lost friends to TWI... It hurt real bad... But I grew from it. You'll grow from this.
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waysider
When I was first introduced to The Way about 35 years ago, it was by a small group of young people who were out "witnessing"(recruiting). Almost immediately, one young lady in the group took a special interest in me and we began a one on one relationship that was platonic but personal and intense. She signed me up for "the class" and personally "undershepherded" me. At about the midway point of the class(Which at that time was a total commitment of three weeks of time) I discovered quite by accident that she was actually the fiance of the person conducting the class. All these people(except the other students ) were completely aware of the deception that was being perpetrated. By this time(and we're only talking about a few weeks) I was already so sold on the "ministry" that I considered my relationship to her secondary to The Way and this amazing new take on life that they offered. Now, I'm not suggesting this is what has happened in your case. What I am asking though is whether an organization that would use such dubious tactics is one that you would want to become a part of? And yet I stayed for too many more years than I care to admit! That's how powerful mind control can be.
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Belle
Do you know why they are MAILING her info? Why not a phone call or e-mail? :blink:
Do you know why they are MAILING her info? Why not a phone call or e-mail? :blink:
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Weout1200
Hello Moryan. Welcome to the Spot.
I hate to come straight to the point, but if your girlfriend has the opinion of twi that you've stated, then it's too late; she's gone. Move on, it's the best thing for your sanity.
And what the folk are posting here is true; twi, once they find any weakness in a relationship/marriage, they will work overtime to do their best to split it up & they will twist the Bible & paint any/everyone as evil or possesed to suit their evil purposes. You can show her copies of court documents... big deal: their answer is the adversary controls the world & the 'Net. You're Catholic...they'll go to her & throw the "unequally yoked" line at her, & do it with a loving smile. And inserting themselves in your family is their forte.
I met my wife in the way & we were married for 5 years in...BEFORE we married she was "advised" not to marry me because I hadn't taken one of their sorry classes she'd graduated from ( I wasn't spiritual enough for her...).
I realize you may care deeply for this girl, but once leaders#!t found out you're a RC (as they referred to Catholics), then they put on a full court press on your girlfriend. Walk away.
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TheInvisibleDan
Moryan,
Simply talk to her.
Ask her - challenge her -if she would still love you - respect you - if you followed a different set of beliefs from what she believes, and vice versa.
Establish right now with her whether or not she would exercise as much tolerance and respect toward what you choose to believe as you would toward her.
People of different faiths do marry . These arrangements can work, but only where there is the commitment between the partners to exercise mutual toleration and respect for one another with personal/religious/mystical beliefs.
If she says she will exercise this same toleration toward you (you might ask her), will her group?
And if they don't...? - is the hypothesis you both must pose to her, and both need to consider.
Best luck to you.
Danny
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fellowshipper
Ryan, I know you are seeking what to do. I will not tell you what to do, you now have of freedom will, she is conned like we here at Greasespot, we thought we had all of the answers,not. To ditch this relationship is like a bandade on a bad wound. Yes it hurts. Just rip it off! You decide your fate. I spent most of my youth to this organization and I do not question my commitment. I am hurt I found out what was going on behind the scenes unbeknowst to me and many others. We did it to serve. I do not think what I did in serving will ever go without reward. YOu would be better off to go out and talk to a tree. She aint going to hear anything towards the Way, I was there been there done that.
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GrouchoMarxJr
If she is deeply involved with The Way, I'm afraid that is an impossibility. People who are inflicted with "waybrain" have stopped considering other viewpoints and have abandoned critical thinking.
It's only a matter of time before her "Way" leadership gives her an ultimatum that YOU need to convert and join their ranks or else she will be told to break up with you...she will be ostracized otherwise.
It may be difficult for you, but breaking up with her is probably your best option...
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moryan
I am blessed for everyone taking the time to give me these comments of encouragement to do what is right, rather than just simply bending or mending my ways and beliefs to try and stay happy. As far as why they are mailing it to her, she said that she had to send them a normal letter in the mail to begin with because she couldn't find an email address or phone number posted anywhere and that they prefer to use regular mail over the others, why? I have NO idea, seemed really odd to me....So she is sitting and watching the mailbox, waiting for the contact info for the local fellowship. She has been filled with immense negativity and anger lately, most of which has been directed towards me. She feels when we both go back home for the holidays (to seperate places) that between that and getting to go to fellowship after the Holidays might make her return to her old self again, yet she hasn't been to a fellowship in like a year I believe. The other thing I am trying to figure out is, she always says, "I hope this is a good Fellowship...." She even admits how she has been to others that the people are just......then she just kind of leaves it at that, I think it is her sweeping her thoughts against the way back under the rug in her mind.
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doojable
Moryan,
Here is the thing you have to consider - along with the sound advice given by many.
For this young lady - getting involved with you has a two-fold purpose: she has a boyfriend and she has someone new she can introduce to her group ("Ministry' is the word she'll say.)
She's in a quandry as well. She probablly likes you, but also has this need to get someone new to fellowship.
The felllowship will be harmless enough if you decide to go. Folks will be nice and sweet and even engaging. But, all the while you most probably will be scrutinized. After you and she leave, she will most likely talk to someone and they will give her their "spiritual opinion" - so to speak.
Is this really a relationship that you want? It will not be just you and her. It will be you and her and all those folks in your business for as long as you are a couple. Think BAD IN_LAWS multiplied by a thousand - and it won't matter if you're married or not - they will have an opinion and talk about you to her and her to you - but never to the person in question directly.
IMHO you should end this relationship. You're young - most of us here are much, much older and we know where this ship is sailing. As I see it, this is not a healthy way to begin a relationship. It never works when two people go into a relationship expecting the other to change.
If you decide to try and see if it can work - well then keep your radar way way up! Listen for all those catch phrases and warning signs you've been given. No matter what, it will come out eventually.
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potato
I can supply the end of that sentence, having lived it...
"mean" "demanding" "emotionally abusive". some are nice but uninvolved, and some are simply "nosy" and "meddling".
to your other question, the reason that you can't find addresses or phone numbers is because they don't want people contacting them unless they're prescreened and stamped with someone's approval so their time isn't wasted. you can't even call their HQ. they don't want to talk to you unless you're committed.
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Tom Strange
I can't tell you anything the others haven't already said here... but... if you'd like to an indication of how it will all "pan out" go to a fellowship with her... and ask (in a loud enough voice to be overheard by others there)... ask them the questions about TWI...
When they give you the same "canned" answers your girlfriend gives you, delve deeper... and also ask them how come they all have the same answers... is it because it's what they've been told to say? ...do they not think for themselves? ...how can they ignore all of the messes that have NOT EVER been dealt with but merely brushed under the rug?
or don't... just remember, you cannot think of this (as others have said) as just two people from different denominations... it's not like that, it never will be...
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TrustAndObey
Moryan,
Your situation actually sounds a little odd my friend. She doesn't currently go to a fellowship, and she is being sent information via mail. Weird.. When I was in the Way (Just a few years ago), those people weren't considered really even believers. Not going to fellowship?! We were suppose to let them know when we moved (actually get their advice even!), have the state(limb) corrdinator call the other state coordinator and make sure we were hooked up when we arrived at the new location. I have never in my life heard of waiting on them to mail something. Typical thing that would happen would be they would get your name and address and phone # and have someone local contact you. Mail?! You really sure about that? Because I think she could be waiting an aweful long time if that is the case. No one I know at HQ mails fellowship information. If they have your address, there will be a knock!
Course, I look at the bright side. If she said she wasn't really "thrilled" about her old fellowship. And she certainly doesn't seem to be fully involved (because she wouldn't be without a fellowship for longer thn a month, that's their lifeline), you actually may just be alright.
I certainly wouldn't run away. There is nothing to be scared of as long as you are informed and never forget what is true. In fact, if you are a true friend, you ought to be there till the end to try and help her. Be the one example that has a level mind and knows what is going on. Trust me, if she is that close to you, she will listen. Sure she is like many in the Way that think their theology is to die for, but so do many that leave the Way. That's just a sign of someone who has fear. Fear of looking at the other side and possibly being wrong. Don't worry about it bro. Be her friend. Take care of her. Help her. That's what we are all here for. TO help one another. To encourage, and lift one another up. Not to run away the moment something rough comes along. Be tough, be a man. But don't forget what is true.
When I was in the Way. I remember the first month people were calling Headquarters their home. And I remember telling another person that was pretty new in the ministry that if I ever started saying that same thing, to kill me. That friend always reminded me of that when I'd talk to her. We lost touch over the years, but I still remembered. Just never forget what The Way. It is a man made ministry, ran by men, with men's thinking taught to willing receipients. It is not a replacement for God. GOd is our Heavenly Father, and our relationship with Him has nothing to do with what any man made ministry does.
That's my advice. ANd it may be different than everyone else. But the love of God that is true is the type of love that one is willing to give of themselves to another to help another without the selfish motivation of receiving back. Show her what the true love of GOd is. Because I can guarentee, the Way will not.
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TrustAndObey
Just to clarify though.. In case some were thinking I am talking about letting her walk all over him. I'm not.. I'm just suggesting that he doesn't "run away" as some have suggested because she is in the way. I know a number of gals, even Corps gals, who listened to ex-wayers and ended up leaving. And leaving people just because of their association is definitely not showing people the same love God showed you in sending His son to die for you.
I'm not saying we die for people that abuse us. But if she ain't abusing you, walking over you like a mat, then why would you run? Just keep your mind on who they are, and you can be the light that helps her.
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Nottawayfer
Ryan,
You are the only one in this equation who can protect your heart. And you must do that. Once your girlfriend gets back to fellowship, she may get talked out of your relationship because you are not a believer (according to TWI terms). Don't let your heart get broken. Your girlfriend is very aware of this mentality if she's been part of TWI for any amount of time.
You sound like a very nice guy who deserves better than some waybrained confused girl who yells like a banchee every time you bring up questions about her religion. Please save yourself from the grief you will encounter. My intent is not to sound negative. You need to protect you from the meddling which will happen once she gets back to fellowship.
With TWI in the way, your relationship doesn't stand a chance. She will start questioning your relationship because she won't be able to reconcile the thoughts about your ability to be her head without the rightly divided Word. She will feel guilt, and your relationship will be on the down side of the balances. If she gets involved with them and you are planning to get married, she will be immensely bothered about not having a "ministry" wedding. It will be a vicious crazy circle.
PLEASE PROTECT YOUR HEART!!!!
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dmiller
This is as predictable as the sun rising in the east, and setting in the west.
And you can bet your bottom dollar twi won't *snail mail* THIS info.
<_<
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Sushi
Doesn't sound to me like the start of a healthy relationship.
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Sushi
If this is 'the way' you want to live the rest of your life, more power to you. However, I think you'll find saying "Yes, Dear" will eventually get under your skin and it will turn into something less loving. Something along the lines of, "F U, DEAR"
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coolchef
ryan please if you go to a fellowship with her don't drink the kool aid! i honestly believe they would if they were told to of course there would be some scripture justifing it
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