CFF

[1 john 3:1]

awwwww come on, i'd say the same thing about my own father

Is that your father?

[1 john 3:1]

I could be wrong on this........but I think this statement is referring to Rev. Sang@t B@ins and his growing ministry work in India. Apparently, John & Wayne invited (paid expenses?) Sang@t to come to CFF and teach and share some deliverance stories from his India ministry.

If I remember, Sang@t went into the 10th corps, then graduated and went back to India.......and broke off his ties with twi. He didn't let twi get their "authoritative hooks" into him.

Actually TWI never followed up on Sangat & he was never even aware of anything going on with TWI in the USA. He was too busy doing what he was asked to do & that was coordinate India and move the Word. That's what they do. The have fellowships 2 - 3 x a week with upwards of 150 believers. They are having great stories of deliverance as well as healings. There are approximately over 150 fellowships that Sangat has worked with and strengthened with God's word. They take care of their own areas, there is no hirarchy. I do know this for a fact, I have seen enough myself as well as a great video that Taxxxx Oxxxxxy made while he was there. They also feed the people that show up for fellowship & allow & support believers who would like to come over to learn the areas that Sangat has worked from the Word.

TWI did not keep in touch with Sangat, nor did they support him. He has no name, they just teach & preach. He comes here to build the believers, not his ministry in India. He has blessed alot of people who had been hurt, they are delivered and moving ahead with their lives.

I know CFF supports Sangat Bains in the area of praying for him and he likewise keeps them in his prayers as well as other ministries here and in Europe endeavouring to function together, not under any one title. He has encouraged fellowships to rise up & support their immediate leadership to move the Word in their area and NOT send it to him but keep it within the fellowship & support the leaders teaching the Word.

"Sang@t's ministry and work is totally INDEPENDENT from cff."

"Peter J. W@de's ministry and work is INDEPENDENT from cff."

However we all have the same goals, to help people walk with the Father & grow in the Word.

"IMO, the statement by I John 3:1 is misleading........like "they" (cff) are "very much involved with the poor in India." Why????? Because cff invited Sang@t to teach at a weekend conference???"

I was referring to my own personal family. If you reread some of my posts I said I support many ministries. I support some of the believer's children from the USA who have also gone to India to spend time and grow & learn more depth in some areas of expertise that Sangat has studied and worked for over 29 years. Sangat teaches and is invited to many ministries in the USA. When I say poor in India, I am not just referring to poverty, it's a spiritual dirth. Actually the people there have a love for "god" as they know it & when they hear the Word they are more meek than many people in the USA, IMO from the enthusiam I have seen personally.

"I could be wrong.......but I don't think it's any more than that. Possibly, a little cash donation, maybe?"

"Remember how vpw went to solicit Jimmy Dxxp and also, Steve Hefnxr and graft their works into "his" Ohio work? Grafting in others' ministries can REALLY help boost one's ministry image. VPW did this back in the 60's.

Personally, I think its good that Christians support other Christians...........and maybe that was the intent. But, if this thing was to boost their image and graft.....well, that's not good." You are insinuating evil & speculating here, it's not your place to do so if you know nothing about the wonderful believers who are attempting to work together. We are already aligned thru The Body of Christ. But some of you seem to not be hearing this.

Again I repeat, it's sad that you can't believe that there are loving people who just want to bless & heal people and you speculate things that you know nothing about. You are welcome to go see for yourself & you don't have to align yourself with anyone.

[Belle]

Go ahead, 1 John, pick on and judge someone you know nothing about - prove your ignorance and heartlessness to us

[1 john 3:1]

Hi 1 John. I think you have a great point here, and I'd like to play Devil's Advocate for second -

I am sure one day PL will be able to share her deliverance with you and we will all be blessed. It will come from GOD not a denomination, but perhaps thru a loving believer(s).

That's a very legitimate expectation, IMO.

Whether it be CFF or any group, I think there's an acid test that any church needs to pass, and that's the conduct of the pastor(s) and members.

The caveat is always the same in anything - no one's perfect, and everyone will make mistakes. So that's out on the table, first thing.

The conduct is important on the part of the pastor(s), as they have a range of trust and access into people's lives that goes with the service they aspire to provide in the job. How do they conduct themselves not only in public church life but in personal relationships, business, everything. Do they act one way "at church" and another in different cicumstances?

Paul speaks to this in the letters to Timothy and Titus. He's pretty specific as to the qualifications for ministers, pastors, deacons, anyone in an "elder" position in a church. He deals with the qualities of character that are needed, and less with the details of what they will do, day to day. I think the view it gives is invaluable to all concerned and involved. First and foremost - look at how the people act, what they do and less on what they say or say they'd like to do. Rubber meets the road stuff, basic. Paul literally looks for "good people".

The only way to know that is over time and observation and getting to know people. Those in a church will know what's going on, and if there's dirt being flung - the real question is how is it being dealt with? Some things are private but some things can't be - not when a person's working in a public capacity. Is the pastor open, honest, meek to listen and learn himself? How do the people interact with each other?

"CFF as a teaching organization is what it is. I see it as a matter of personal decision whether a person wants to get some of what they offer, that's their business. Again - the rubber meets the road in the local fellowships and gatherings that a person goes to. Regardless of what CFF teaches and a group particpate in, that local group is going to have to speak for itself, it's conduct and values. If they're good, they're good.

Which gets to the Devil's Advocate hat - If "God" works in any situation and in fact some of the least expected, there's no reason why "He" wouldn't in CFF or anywhere else. If the people are of good heart, honest and loving, if they care and are open to others needs, good things can happen regardless of church affiliation. CFF, doesn't matter."

*** I think you are repeating myself here! That was exactly my point, the fruit will be there and you cannot clump believers into a catagory that you perceive without even knowing about the people involved.*****

The train of thought that because CFF is "PFAL" based it's useless may or may not be accurate, but I would contend what's most important is the intent of the people involved, and their conduct. Doctrine is going to differ from church to church but there are basic elements to Christianity that run - should run - constant throughout. They often do, too, even when I don't or can't see it.

When we as people need help, we're so often treated like the leper - nobody will touch us. No time, no whine. I guess I want to open my eyes to a God who's there when I need Him, not when He has time. And He's there, but is anyone else? ****Why don't you give people a chance to bless & help you?? Not all believers are into hurting, some really live the walk"****** I would even venture to guess that there are now some very loving people in TWI, whose hearts are to bless others and live the Word. Ooops, did I say something wrong? Not all were fuxxxd up. Many are staying to heal the rifts. May take time but I bet it will happen.******

Nothing - no thing is more powerful than two hands held together that won't let go. Eternity infuses itself into our souls when we have that one little thing, but it can be so hard to find anyone who will get our dirt on them long enough to do that. When someone does, you never forget. Doesn't matter where they're from then. Never.

***** I agree with you but they are out there and there are loving people in the Body of Christ**** I believe our children have learned great lessons from the mistakes of others & will have the compassion to move ahead with the Word under their own ministries of reconciliation. I am sure there are move leaders who have left TWI, that can really be teaching about God and the good news of the Power of God rather than wasting time in their precious lives that were bought with a price. I think we all know enough Word to move ahead from all the past crap.

[Belle]

***** I agree with you but they are out there and there are loving people in the Body of Christ****

You certainty don't see to be one of those

[1 john 3:1]

Ahh, so that mother's fear really did kill that little boy? Her fear caused her son adndthe driver of the vehicle that hit him to make mistakes? ****Do you know for sure that it was not***** On the other hand every death is not due to someone's fear. We all screw up and make mistakes in judgement & God covers. I think you missed the point of this teaching, this was extreme fear due to "God has not given us the "spirit of fear" who can then take control. I have a friend who admitted to me that she believed her daughter was going to die, the Dr.'s told her it would happen, she actually would look at her daughter who had flu like symptoms and saw her daughter in a coffin. She now knows that she could have had a better mental image of her. She had even gone so far as to tell her that she would see Jesus. It happened and she now believes she could have fought harder & built her believing up. I have also personally witnessed (I worked for years in a hospital & from personal physical instances) NOT accepting the negatives that can come out of some Dr.'s mouths, nurse's mouths etc. And the sick have defied their comments & even the death sentence of 6 months terminal cancer, and are alive 25 years later because they just got involved in something else & did not give into their diagnosis. So we cannot explain everything, but thank God we can believe, even if it's till the day we die. *****

So then, if I'm believing, I can make other people do what I want?? ****I don't think this is what we are talking about, but believing FOR people thru prayer that God can reach them & help them heal & grow is available or we would not need to SIT's. Are we not to teach the scriptures that says GOD will heal ALL our diseases because it does not always happen or happen immediately.*****

Have any of you read the story of Linda, who had to have a glass eye put in at around two years old because she had a bad infection and went blind. She finally met a minister who did not tell her he had never heard of anyone being healed in the Bible of a glass eye being replaced by a new eye. That minister built her up, prayed and now 7 months later the glass eye isout and the new eye has grown underneath it. IT WAS NOT INSTANTANEOUS BUT IT'S THERE. She finally got fed up and wanted her sight back. That minister was Rev. John Shroyer. She's blessed and willing to talk to anyone who would like to learn from her experience. So some of you are really missing out on some great things happening. But guess you'll have to find out yourself. I have her last letter of thanks, encouragement to those that are suffering and she is ready to minister. That's how it works, one ministers, one receives & helps others believe and beat the adversary at his own game.

You certainty don't see to be one of those

Well Belle I guess you will never know..

I believe the verse goes "Without FAITH it's impossible to please God"

Hebrews 11:6

"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

That word faith, is the Greek word pistis. Which anyone who has studied that Greek word will tell, pistis is a noun and it's basic meaning is trust. Mr. Wierwille taught believing is a verb and connotes action, unfortuanely he often would refer to that word "faith" as "believing" which is incorrect.

*****and you don't believe "trust" is believing. It certainly takes believing to trust, so let's split hairs here.

1 john 3:1, there are several very good discussions in the doctrinal section, or in the archives where this so called "law of believing" has been discussed, you might find them interesting to review.

Edited January 27, 2007 by 1 john 3:1

[1 john 3:1]

I wasn't suggesting you debate the subject of the so called "Law of believing", I was suggesting you read those discussions and maybe learn something from those who have actually taken the time and studied to show themselves approved...

When I was in TWI, many times when someone had a problem people would judge them for "lack of believing" or fear. "John is sick again, it's his lack of believing. Jane was fired from her job, it's because she had fear in her heart."

*****I DO NOT JUDGE PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY ARE ILL, THEIR BELIEVING GETS THEM BETTER, IT IS NOT THE LACK OF BELIEVING THAT GET'S THEM SICK, IT'S THE ADVERSARY, EITHER DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY THRU PEOPLE, ESPECAILLY THE IMMATURE WHO WOULD EVEN THINK THAT. So when Jesus was ill, when he was beaten, he had a lack of believing. I would never condone that type of crap and those small minded people should have been put in their place.*******

"What nonsense. $h!t happens and sometimes people get hurt." Yeah it's nonsense & I have never eluded to what you said above..........

Look at the twelve disciples, 11 of them were martyred. Where was their belieivng? Yeah & John was beheaded? So what happened there, I did not say every illness or death was caused by fear but there is a spirit of fear is there not?****

How about Paul, he was whipped, beaten , ship wrecked, hungry, left for dead and eventually beheaded in Rome. Gee, he must have been a poor believer. He really could have used some believing with teeth!

I showed you from my previous post that you mistranslated the word Faith for believing. Have you actually studied the scriptures to see if these things are so? Or are you just parroting what you learned from Mr. Wierwille?

[1 john 3:1]

I'm still looking for an "answer" here.

In a way, I wish you didn't even bring this up..

I have no axe to grind with CFF as such. ****You could have fooled me******

AND YES I HAVE WITNESSED MUCH OF THESE HEALINGS FIRST HAND AS WELL AS HAVING CONTACT WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HEALED & ARE REJOYCING AND PROCLAMING THE GOODNESS OF GOD.

But really..

Do you indeed have the freedom that you think you have? *****ABSOLUTELY*****

Unless the Lord Almighty comes down and confirms your assertations in no uncertain terms, but HE hasn't. to me, personally..

I am FORCED to default to the scientific method.

first two steps:

(and there are more..)

1. make an observation

2. ask a question

Do we have the FREEDOM to ask these questions? *****YOU DID*****

I'll agree with that Linda

as far as newcomers coming in and wagging their finger at me and pronouncing their judgment that God will not tolerate me, Im off "Their Word', God will impart his vengeance on me.....

Who cares?

-same old story same old song and dance that I grew so used to in wayworld, a sterling example of the love of Christ that nothing has changed

You are planting seeds, seeds produce fruit.............you reap what you sow. Did I not read this in the Word? Vengence is setting things right. You waiting to be a greasespot by midnight, I was not refering to that.

[Bramble]

Dr Weirwille very clearly taught in PFAl that a child died because of his mother's fear/negative believing. Even though some one else ran their car into him, the fearful mother was the reason the child died.

Fear and negative believing were the flipside of the law of believing for the goodies. Saw many people over the years get the cold shoulder from TWi leaders/believers because they had needs or illness or negative happenings.

If your child had a series of ear infections, that was a reproof session.

It all started with the Law of Believing, PFAL

[1 john 3:1]

I could be wrong on this........but I think this statement is referring to Rev. Sang@t B@ins and his growing ministry work in India. Apparently, John & Wayne invited (paid expenses?) Sang@t to come to CFF and teach and share some deliverance stories from his India ministry.

If I remember, Sang@t went into the 10th corps, then graduated and went back to India.......and broke off his ties with twi. He didn't let twi get their "authoritative hooks" into him.

*****Actually TWI never followed up on Sangat & he was never even aware of anything going on with TWI in the USA. He was too busy doing what he was asked to do & that was coordinate India and move the Word. That's what they do. The have fellowships 2 - 3 x a week with upwards of 150 believers. They are having great stories of deliverance as well as healings. There are approximately over 150 fellowships that Sangat has worked with and strengthened with God's word. They take care of their own areas, there is no hirarchy. I do know this for a fact, I have seen enough myself as well as a great video that Taxxxx Oxxxxxy made while he was there. They also feed the people that show up for fellowship & allow & support believers who would like to come over to learn the areas that Sangat has worked from the Word.

TWI did not keep in touch with Sangat, nor did they support him. He has no name, they just teach & preach. He comes here to build the believers, not his ministry in India. He has blessed alot of people who had been hurt, they are delivered and moving ahead with their lives.

I know CFF supports Sangat Bains in the area of praying for him and he likewise keeps them in his prayers as well as other ministries here and in Europe endeavouring to function together, not under any one title. He has encouraged fellowships to rise up & support their immediate leadership to move the Word in their area and NOT send it to him but keep it within the fellowship & support the leaders teaching the Word.*******

"Sang@t's ministry and work is totally INDEPENDENT from cff."

"Peter J. W@de's ministry and work is INDEPENDENT from cff."

****However we all have the same goals, to help people walk with the Father & grow in the Word.*****

"IMO, the statement by I John 3:1 is misleading........like "they" (cff) are "very much involved with the poor in India." Why????? Because cff invited Sang@t to teach at a weekend conference???"

***I was referring to my own personal family. If you reread some of my posts I said I support many ministries. I support some of the believer's children from the USA who have also gone to India to spend time and grow & learn more depth in some areas of expertise that Sangat has studied and worked for over 29 years. Sangat teaches and is invited to many ministries in the USA. When I say poor in India, I am not just referring to poverty, it's a spiritual dirth. Actually the people there have a love for "god" as they know it & when they hear the Word they are more meek than many people in the USA, IMO from the enthusiam I have seen personally.****

"I could be wrong.......but I don't think it's any more than that. Possibly, a little cash donation, maybe?"

"Remember how vpw went to solicit Jimmy Dxxp and also, Steve Hefnxr and graft their works into "his" Ohio work? Grafting in others' ministries can REALLY help boost one's ministry image. VPW did this back in the 60's.

"Personally, I think its good that Christians support other Christians...........and maybe that was the intent. But, if this thing was to boost their image and graft.....well, that's not good." *******You are insinuating evil & speculating here, it's not your place to do so if you know nothing about the wonderful believers who are attempting to work together. We are already aligned thru The Body of Christ. But some of you seem to not be hearing this.

Again I repeat, it's sad that you can't believe that there are loving people who just want to bless & heal people and you speculate things that you know nothing about. You are welcome to go see for yourself & you don't have to align yourself with anyone.*******

Go ahead, 1 John, pick on and judge someone you know nothing about - prove your ignorance and heartlessness to us

Sloopy, I can read your posts & know much about you.

[Bramble]

What is it with these off shoot folks and their name calling??? Makes you wonder. Do they treat each other like that, or only the rank unbelievers?

Hmm, as I recall, In TWI they treated their underlings like that...

[mstar1]

What is it with these off shoot folks and their name calling??? Makes you wonder. Do they treat each other like that, or only the rank unbelievers?

Its just an indicator that nothing has changed

Here is the comment to me, I hope PinkLady is still reading before she makes her decision so she knows what to expect.

You waiting to be a greasespot by midnight

To which I say say Thanks for proving my point (cant you at least think up something of your own without parroting Martindale???

CFF/TWI? nothing has changed but the initials-

Its still all the same old tired one liners and superficial positivitity covering an angry attitude..

Edited January 27, 2007 by mstar1

[socks]

*** I think you are repeating myself here! That was exactly my point, the fruit will be there and you cannot clump believers into a catagory that you perceive without even knowing about the people involved.*****

Well there ya go! I was repeating yourself. :)

There's no argument against what you're saying in what I wrote.

If you see one, it's an argument that I'm not making. My comments aren't a criticism for or against CFF or anyone specifically. Only that CFF and anyone in general should be viewed in the same light IMO.

Even that comment can be viewed negatively - as if I'm saying "and when I do CFF comes up short". But that's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that the most useful way I know to function in the body of Christ is to allow each member to speak for themselves - their lives, actions. If I view each member as what the bible says they are I have to do that.

When I say "is anyone else (there)", I don't mean oh no, no one is or that I won't allow others to be.

A very good example of how I should live is the parable of the "Good Samaritan", who helped someone else without regard for who they were. Jesus taught that illustration as a way to show who and how to love - don't judge who my "neighbor" is and only help those I want to, but help anyone who needs it. I have no problem admitting I don't always do that but that's the standard I would like to keep.

***** I agree with you but they are out there and there are loving people in the Body of Christ****

Of course you do! Of course there are. Every word isn't an argument here kiddo. :)

[skyrider]

If you see one, it's an argument that I'm not making. My comments aren't a criticism for or against CFF or anyone specifically. Only that CFF and anyone in general should be viewed in the same light IMO.

<snip>

Of course you do! Of course there are. Every word isn't an argument here kiddo. :)

Ditto for my posts too.

I John 3.......you are posting on a public forum where different viewpoints are being expressed. Every post is NOT an argument, or evil attack, or devil spirits behind the words. Sheeeeesh.........some of us have tried to clarify you points, your-India-statement....and you STILL attack.

Perhaps, if you'd step back abit.......and think before firing-away, you'd see what's being discussed, rather cordially I might add. Some of us have been around the block waaaaaaaay more than you know.

Peace. :)

[1 john 3:1]

Its just an indicator that nothing has changed

Mstar if you are going to quote me put in the whole quote.

You are planting seeds, seeds produce fruit.............you reap what you sow. Did I not read this in the Word? Vengence is setting things right. You waiting to be a greasespot by midnight, I was not refering to that.

It was in the essence of sarcasm, as if nothing evil would happen, God would set things right when any of us are wrong, we get the reproof of our error from him. Why didn't you post the rest. See you only see what you want to see and what you want others to see..

Edited January 27, 2007 by 1 john 3:1

[1 john 3:1]

Every word isn't an argument here kiddo. :)

Thank you, I agree with you and am sorry I misread your post, everyone else seemed in attack mode which happens frequently here.

If I posted any "name calling", that too was my defense kicking in. However; I also see inuendos without the name calling that results in the same thing such in Belle's post. "Well you don't see to be one". I take that as a slap so I responded. It seems as if most, not all here are living so far in the past, how can they ever see past this junk and move on.

Go ahead, 1 John, pick on and judge someone you know nothing about - prove your ignorance and heartlessness to us

In response to Bramble's post:

See it in your own post Belle, so I am ignorant & heartless and no one else here ever name calls anyone.

Edited January 27, 2007 by 1 john 3:1

[skyrider]

It seems as if most, not all here are living so far in the past, how can they ever see past this junk and move on.

I John 3........"living so far in the past".....

"Living" and "posting on GS" are two entirely different things for me. I like the dialogue here on GS, so I spend a few hours a week here........but I wouldn't call that "living." For me, its nice to reconnect with some friends, laugh, converse, hear different viewpoints and share my viewpoints.

I'm glad you are starting to see that YOU don't need to be a defender of every post, every different viewpoint that disagrees with wierwille legend-land or its offshoots. Others from cff (who will remain nameless) have debunked his MOG-status and exposed his plagairism and past carnal lusts.

Maybe.......YOU are "living in the past" of twi-legends told.

[socks]

No Problem 1 John. Words can be difficult sometimes. I know what I mean but even I read my own words later and wonder what I meant.

CFF - John Shroyer, right? That's about all I know about them, so I can't offer advice. John's a nice guy, was when I knew him that's a long time ago. He was great, wouldn't hurt a fly, really enjoyed the bible. Danny too. I'm missing one, I think. But they were nice people.

If he isn't still someone else with experience can speak to that.

Y'know - two people can live and work tegether completely happy and in harmony and believe very differently.

No two people ever agree 100% and are completely "likeminded" even when they say they are and they agree word for word on something. It's not just a philosophical argument - their understanding will be different based on their own life's experience. Yet they'll feel completely in harmony. If you watch though, over time differences will come up.

But - they won't matter, reallly. Because at the core level, they agree. When Paul takes about unity being spiritual, bond of perfectness, one body, all of that - it isn't because we're all likeminded in what we think - that kind of likemindedeness is a work of the brain, the mind. Unity is a spiritual bond, pefect in that it's based on something perfect, not the inadequacies of our minds.

To get anywhere I think we have to start there, over and over again - it isn't something we do for awhile, get good at and then move on prepared to really get down to it. Our spiritual bond is the Main Ingredient that keeps getting added over and over, and that hopefully permeates what we do more and more. But it won't - can't very well - if we brush it aside and don't let it inform what we're doing.

Which is why I can't promote or demote CFF on face value. Show me the people, show me what they say they believe, show me what they do with it. Same for me - no different.

I'll be honest though - for me - there are places I have a little experience with that do some fine work, good stuff and have nothing to do with any ex-Way groups, ministries, organizations or societies (formal or otherwise). So, that's why I think it can be worthwhile to visit and check out something completely different, if only for awhile. It's really worthwhile I think.

[skyrider]

Y'know - two people can live and work tegether completely happy and in harmony and believe very differently.

No two people ever agree 100% and are completely "likeminded" even when they say they are and they agree word for word on something. It's not just a philosophical argument - their understanding will be different based on their own life's experience. Yet they'll feel completely in harmony. If you watch though, over time differences will come up.

But - they won't matter, reallly. Because at the core level, they agree. When Paul takes about unity being spiritual, bond of perfectness, one body, all of that - it isn't because we're all likeminded in what we think - that kind of likemindedeness is a work of the brain, the mind. Unity is a spiritual bond, pefect in that it's based on something perfect, not the inadequacies of our minds.

To get anywhere I think we have to start there, over and over again - it isn't something we do for awhile, get good at and then move on prepared to really get down to it. Our spiritual bond is the Main Ingredient that keeps getting added over and over, and that hopefully permeates what we do more and more. But it won't - can't very well - if we brush it aside and don't let it inform what we're doing.

SEE.............THAT'S why I like it here at GS.

Thanks, socks.

[Ham]

As a matter of fact we are also very much involved with the "poor" in India and they are getting delivered, healed and turning onto the Word at a very rapid rate.

I'd like to know, do you know this PERSONALLY, or did you just hear this in a report, or hear about results based on someone elses claim?

I'm not saying it is not true, or impossible.. but I don't follow these claims like a lemming any more..

Next question: do you feel, in the organization, that you have freedom to think something like this, or to even ask an honest question, such as, is this real, or are we being led down another precipice by another charlatan?

The logic here:

1. The word reveals the power of God

2. We know the word

3. Therefore we have the power

4. Therefore it MUST be genuine..

I think there are too many assumptions here.

I've followed that train of logic before, and it didn't pan out to be what it claimed..

I'm not an unbeliever as such, but too many red flags go up in my mind..

I have no axe to grind with CFF as such. ****You could have fooled me******

Sorry for all the quotes..

Maybe you didn't understand the tone I wrote this with.

This thread started with a question about joining up with an organization. These are questions I would ask in ANY organization. I would not feel comfortable being looked down upon or ridiculed for asking for further information, when I have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind.

The last group I was a "member" of tended to beat down any kind of honest inquiry. Wouldn't even publish any financial information for their most faithful..

My question- how would a questions like this be received?

Do we have the FREEDOM to ask these questions? *****YOU DID*****

I should have rephrased it.. "do we have freedom to ask these kind of questions without ridicule, shunning or being shamed?"

No accusations here..

I restate, I have no axe to grind with CFF as such. But before I got involved, I'd ask a few questions.

[VeganXTC]

Have any of you read the story of Linda, who had to have a glass eye put in at around two years old because she had a bad infection and went blind. She finally met a minister who did not tell her he had never heard of anyone being healed in the Bible of a glass eye being replaced by a new eye. That minister built her up, prayed and now 7 months later the glass eye isout and the new eye has grown underneath it. IT WAS NOT INSTANTANEOUS BUT IT'S THERE.

Whoa! What's this all about? Did Linda have her eye removed, and replaced with a glass eye when she was two? Now there's a new eye growing where there wasn't one before, and all without surgery or medical attention, just prayer? Am I understanding this right?

I'm going to have to be a doubting Thomas on this one. Is there any way you can link to the story, or is there a news release, or anything about this?

[1 john 3:1]

Mr. Hammeroni, I can only attest for Sangat & Cff. You could ask John Shroyer anything, Wayne & Sangat and they would never shun you or make you feel bad about any questions you have.

So if that was your question the answere is yes, been there done that.............Sorry I missed the point..........

[1 john 3:1]

Whoa! What's this all about? Did Linda have her eye removed, and replaced with a glass eye when she was two? Now there's a new eye growing where there wasn't one before, and all without surgery or medical attention, just prayer? Am I understanding this right?

I'm going to have to be a doubting Thomas on this one. Is there any way you can link to the story, or is there a news release, or anything about this?

ABSOLUTELY: This was from Sangat on August 26, 2006 in reference.

By the way, I have received a wonderful testimony of Linda Morrison from her husband Paul who live in West Virginia. I thought to share this testimony as it inspired me and I know that this will increase our expectation that nothing is impossible with God.

Linda lost her, I think, her left eyes at her young age so she has been wearing a glass eye when I met her with her husband in Tipp City for the first time.

John and I ministered healing to her as her faith was that she would be able to see. This is the background of this testimony. Our God is indeed the Mighty God and Able to bring to pass all the desires of our heart.

Then later:

An update on Linda's eye. I don't know if anyone told you. July 8 a new eye appeared and she saw flashes of light. It seems to be a small eye growing. It is white with a large dark iris forming. Some blue is starting to show and what looks like a pupil. She can no longer wear her false eye because it won't fit comfortably. She can not see out of it yet and it is much smaller but growing. She wears a patch over it to cover it and protect it. God told her she could show it to her dad and then her mother. they were blown away because they were there when the surgeon removed it. Their whole world was rocked. Her mom now wants ministered to.

He wrote another mail and told me that It is continuing to grow to become a full eye.

THIS NOTE FROM LINDA: Rec'd Dec. 17, 2006..............

My testimony is a bit lengthy but if you read it all the way through it is capable of helping you or someone you know immensely.

At the age of two I was suppose to have corrective surgery for a drooping right eyelid... the surgeons decided to try something new. They cut the eyelid off. Rather brutal. Not too long after the eyelashes began growing back but because the lid had been sliced the lashes grew down and into the eye, piercing it all over like tiny little needles. The eye became badly damaged and i lived in excruciating pain. I lost the sight in the eye. No doctor would take my case because of the fear of malpractice until one day while my dad was having his flight physical a United Airlines Flight Surgeon recommended a doctor in Chicago and one in New York City . These two doctors teamed up and began a lengthy procedure of twenty one surgeries over several years trying to correct the badly damaged eye. They did remarkable work but the sight could not be recovered.

In February of '91 the pressure behind the eye built to a point where I could no longer function. I had to stay in a dark room with pressure over the eye. The pain was unbearable. I couldn't care for my two young sons. I flew to Chicago and had the eye removed. Through the years, even before the eye was removed I searched for healing through spiritual counselors and not a few.

I can very much relate to the woman with the issue of blood. My family had spent a great deal of money and I searched high, low and in between for healing. I too could never accept what the enemy had blindsided me with. However, I was told before the eye was removed that there was not enough community believing to be healed or that healing went out with the Apostles, or it faded away when Jesus left, God only heals really good, religious people (I was either good or religious but never both at the same time or I was really bad). After the eye was removed I was told it never happened in the Bible, God won't heal me because He's have to change all the physical laws in the universe to do it, if I wanted healing I shouldn't have had the eye removed and He (God) won't go against my initial choice, replacing an organ or a limb is nowhere in the Bible... one thing I wasn't told is 'Yes, God will heal you.' I was devastated because these people knew more and probably still do about the Bible than I. They must be right. Besides, they are my leaders. They would know. I couldn't understand why God would heal this disease, that illness, this person, that person, but He won't or He can't heal me. It never made sense and it was extremely hurtful to believe this way. My mistake was I went everywhere but the Word of God for the truth.

In January '06 my husband and I visited CFF church in Tipp City , Ohio . Wayne and Ferne Clapp lovingly and graciously invited us to come and stay in their home. Before we headed back to West Virginia , we purchased the CFF class series. We started listening to them right away. Everyone should have them. They are healing. As I listened to the class Ministering with God's Power- that old tug in my heart came back, I wanted to be healed. By February I had finished the class and as I was walking my two dogs (this is my time with God where I talk things over with Him). I made a decision. I would no longer listen to what ANYONE says about my healing, including and especially myself. I would go to God. I would ask God to heal me. It didn't matter that I'd never heard of anyone ever getting a new eye - the circumstances would no longer have speech, I was healed. I simply decided God would heal me. I ministered to myself during that walk and thanked God for healing me. I told Him I would fight the good fight until my last breath. I would never again accept any information that came to me and implied I was wrong and God won't or can't heal me. Then, God showed me a sign. I didn't ask for it but He sent one that couldn't argue with. I knew He did it because He knew I was serious and wanted to comfort and confirm for me.

My fight began in February. I went to Tipp City at the end of April and was ministered too. I hadn't seen any physical changes. But, I did not quit or give in. I kept fighting because our God cannot and does not lie. I drenched my brain in scripture. I confessed out loud "I'm healed" over and over and over again - I still do.

On June the 8th '06 I woke up and there was a new eye forming in the socket. In July I saw my first flashes of light. In October the prosthetic eye could no longer fit and now I wear an eye patch. Today, on Thanksgiving, the iris is visible and the cornea is formed (we think of it as a lens- a little clear circle over the pupil). The eye is sensitive to light and is about 60 percent completed. The eye continues to grow and change.

I want this testimony to first and foremost give GLORY to our GOD and to thank my Lord Jesus Christ who paid for this healing and who is the very reason I fight for this, they deserve for me to be healed. I would also like this testimony to reach out to those of you who so deeply desire deliverance, God will heal you. He has healed you through Christ's stripes. Because of Christ's payment- you are owed this healing...GO GET IT!!! I am here for you who need to talk, those who need help and earnestly desire help. I understand the agony and grief you have lived with or are now living. I was at this years planning meeting so someone in your area will have my phone number. You can call me after 7:00 EST- or email my husband with the caption 'GOD GETS THE GLORY' or else it might get deleted. I am keeping a journal which I will make available after the glorious day when this eye patch is forever removed.

God bless you- God will, NO MATTER WHAT IT IS!!!!Linda Morrison, Barboursville , West Virginia

************* Many people are missing out on the blessings God has for them because they are held back by the past. Sangat, John, Wayne and many others from other ministries around the country are teaching and blessing believers like we should have been blessed way back years ago. That's my story & I'm sticking to it. This is only one testimony, there are many more.

The next one is from a believer in Denver who had written a note to Sangat after he left.

I wanted to let you know about one woman who came to you for healing when you where here in Denver.

She had gall bladder cancer. The doctors told her it was in the fourth stage and there was nothing they could do for her. All of us in our fellowship noted the color came back into her face after you ministered to her and she looked much better. Last week she saw the doctors who ran more tests on her. They could not find any trace of cancer in her. Completely healed in the Name of Jesus Christ! Praise God.

God Bless You

Dan

[Bramble]

I was in TWI most of my adult life so I was very shocked when I attended a mainline denomination, and they did an annual budget meeting with the congregation--full disclosure, how much was spent for this or that, how much on ministers salaries etc. It was handled by a local acct. firm in addition to the church treasurer etc. Everyone present was handed a packet that they could take home with them and there were certain things brought before the congregation for a vote, including a vote of confidence or no confidence for the pastors.

Also each weekly bulletin handed out at the door by the usher contained the previous Sunday's collection total, a monthly total, and the general monthly budget need.

I will never again belong to a group that runs on donations but doesn't give full disclosure to the givers like that.

I don't know if CFF does or doesn't, but that's one of the things I'd check.

[pinklady]

I would like to thank all of you for sharing. I can see that all of us have been hurt. Some more severly than others but we all have lost our innocence so to speak. It is very difficult to trust when you have been hurt because you never want to be let down or hurt again.

It is sad to see the body of Christ so divided, not just with The Way but all over, in every religion. The Devil is a jerk!! He wants us to argue. He wants to break up our marriages, destroy our families and take our children and even destroy us if he can. But God wants the best for us.

I would like to share with you all my experience so far with CFF. First of all I came here in August after 6 years of living in Hell. I call it isolation from the outside world. I had no idea what happened in the Way after VP died because we were sheltered in this Geer splinter group. Pat P. used to tell us we were pretty much the only ones really doing anything for God and discouraged getting info, clever right?! How dumb was I?

When we left 6 years ago without 2 of our children, I had lost all so called freinds. Not only was I dealing with losing the kids, I was told that I was to blame for it. My husband never supported me and the kids because he was too busy supporting "Geer and by doing that he supported whatever evil Pat dished out.

We had no fellowship to go to and we could not go to church because of all the wrong doctrine about chuches being off the word. My husband just would not allow that. He was just content to listen to Geer tapes. So I was very sheltered and really struggling. I could not see a way out of my pain. I had no support from ANYONE! So the devil attacked. We do need each other!

When my husband left, looking back, it was a blessing in disguise because I have learned so much. I am thankful for GS. I have made a few great freinds here and learned alot. I don't agree with some veiw points but we will never all agree, will we? So I try very hard not to judge or condemn anyone else for how they feel because I do not know what they have endured. I leave that up to them and God.

One of the freinds I met here lives in the UK. She helped me get through ONE of the most difficult times of my life. That was a few months back when my husband beat up on me. She was a attorney and worked alot with domestic violence.

She wrote to me faithfully everyday without fail. Those e-mails were always what I needed to hear and her love kept me going just one more round. Just when I wanted to throw in the towel, Thats the love of God!!!! He worked in her heart all the way in the UK, hey that rhymed! Ha, its late. For the first time in 6 years I had some support! Someone was willing to actually get involved in my life and HELP me. She had also had her corps marriage destroyed by leadership so she could have empathy for me as a woman. She could understand the depression. The days I did not want to get out of bed or eat.

She checked out a CFF fellowship in th UK and liked it. I also started going to a nice church. Then She gave me a contact in Orlando of a CFF fellowship and they gave me one for Tampa. So before I jumped into it I decided to start this thread to get your feedback good or bad, I wanted to know. Most of you know my story. Its one I would not want to repeat.

Then another loving believer gave me John Shroyer's cell #. I called it on a Saturday about lunch time. John answered. He was having a planning meeting with alot of people there. He listened to my whole entire story,and its a long, painful one. It took over a hour. He comforted me and bullt me up and told me that what happened to me was BS. I was impressed that he stopped what he was doing to LISTEN to a hurt believer desperately seeking help.

He wanted me to get in touch with Mike and Judy in a city close by, about a hour away because he knew they are good at ministering. He said I needed alot of healing and love from all the spiritual abuse I have suffered.

I called Mike and Judy and they came to my house and spent the day with me, They ministered to me. They said I could call them and I have. For the first time I can see a way out of my pain. I woke up the next morning actually wanting to live. I have been in counseling for the last year and I never really got alot of healing. It was a way to release some of the pressure. They are throwing out the life vest because trust me, I was drowning fast. They are feeding me the word. They have been around a long time. They are in their 60's and still moving with God. They have a large fellowship. Thats what you call getting down in the dirt with someone. I am a handful right now!!!!

I am not saying that I will ever follow one organization. I told the fellowship in Tampa that I would not give up my church womens group and they changed their fellowship night. They said they are there to serve people not the other way around.

So I am impressed so far. Do I know my boundaries now? YOu better believe I do. If you have read my story you know that I am a strong woman and I have stood up to alot of these ego leader crap. I even stood up to Geer. I will never allow anyone to put me and my kids in legalism and bondage ever again!! I will never vault any man as the MOG. They are to serve the believers.

It is nice to fellowship with people who were a part of this ministry alot of us spent most of our lives in. That is why you fellowship here at GS. I go where there is love now. Why argue over doctrine? I go to church and I know they belive the trinity. Do I argue? no . I just simply love them because I know they love God. There are so many things in the word that we all can agree on. GOD IS LOVE, how about that one?

Instead of analizing everything lets just love and let God sort out this mess. I have decided to let my kids, my husband go completely. God WILL BRING MY KIDS BACK TO ME!!! In the mean time I am excited about a new life.

This is the first phase of my deliverance. Stay tuned to Part 2 when God restores my kids back to me. He's working on it. I love you guys. Thanks for your prayers and your support. Pink.

Edited January 28, 2007 by pinklady