Agreed Excathdra, I see the parallells. It is all about being alone and vulnerable with someone that you should have been able to safely trust. It is about discovering that the person who you trusted is a monster, it is about using your position and power to hurt.
Maybe this resonates so deeply with me because my ob decided to be an nasty arse (he had a waiting room full of patients and I had chosen an inconvenient time to have the child of course) when he rushed in at the last miniute to deliver my first born. It was terrifying, to have the man in charge of my life angry and unneccessarily rough (my arm blackened from wrist to elbow with the roughness in which he inserted an unneccessary iv no medicine just the needle ... AS my child was crowning) it destroyed what should have been the most special day of our lives, the welcoming of our precious daughter.
It was bad enough that when the hospital gave me a courtesy call six weeks later and I gave them an honest acount of how frightening and dissapointing my experience had been.....they called me back a day later and apologised profusely, and insisted that we forget about the 500 dollar deductable that we still owed them. I guess my story checked out and they were afraid I would sue.
What that Dr. did to that woman was criminal, that she did it when the poor woman was at her most vulnerable, cruel. I dearly wish that she had been prosecuted.
Reading the obit for Dr Rawlins I almost wanted to gag.
She was a good woman and a good doctor, but there was something so syrupy about the way her obit was worded that seemed too gooey and more like a propoganda for twi's ugly as sin "household of der veg."
And I guess it comes from having the blessing of being around so many honest heartfelt memories shared in the Greasespot Cafe in Memorium threads.
Even reading the memorial threads over where Dr Rawlins' obit is placed, there are other "normal" obits whichare in such contrast to Dr Rawlins' -- honest, heartfelt, grieving, compassionate, memories of people. Whereas, behind the syrupy goop of Dr Rawlins' obit was that hypocritical (and heartless) stuff with a smiley cloying face. Ugh!
Another reason I am so glad to be out of that twi place.
(Did I ever say that lcm kicked me out, and I owe him a debt of thanks for that.)
There but for the grace of God is myobit, written by twi staff.
I sure hope to be remembered with some real heart -- hate me or like me, I am so thankful no one will write (I hope), "Kit Sober remained a faithful member of the twi household." Hallelujah!
(Please don't even think of it.)
I did not think that it was a bad obituary. I liked it. I re-read it after reading that a post was started on the topic.
I just learned of her death yesterday, just like I learned of this place yesterday.
I live close to Winston-Salem, NC. I didn't know that she lived near me. She inspired me on many things. Like to not circumcise my son, and to understand female reproductivity.
I've read the posts about her being uncompassionate to the woman that was giving birth. It's tragic that she can also be remebered for being mean to people outside of the ministry.
All in all, she acted only in ways in which she was taught. Remember, we can't go farther than what we have been taught.
God will forgive her of her sins, who are we to cast stones?
Hate to pick on a newbie but we MUST be able to go further than we were taught! Otherwise we would still be in the Dark Ages!
By listening to the posters here it sounds like Dr. Rawlins practiced medicine way past her prime.
I've got to admit by going to her memorial service (we can't say funeral in TWI) I wished I had gotten to know her but since I left TWI 20 years ago, she wouldn't have been allowed to see me or wouldn't have wanted to see me. Personally, I enjoy my "untouchable" status by Wayfers.
This is a great big tangent I'm about to go on but I listen to another Bible teacher on TV and he's teaching so much about not earning God's love and blessings. Even though TWI supposedly taught that, they sure didn't live it. When I went to Dr. Rawlins' service it brought me back to the "so-called" discipline of TWI - how we all had to be ON TIME, etc. we had to earn God's love by tithing, witnessing, SIT, etc. or God wouldn't spit in our direction.
Hate to pick on a newbie but we MUST be able to go further than we were taught! Otherwise we would still be in the Dark Ages!
By listening to the posters here it sounds like Dr. Rawlins practiced medicine way past her prime.
I've got to admit by going to her memorial service (we can't say funeral in TWI) I wished I had gotten to know her but since I left TWI 20 years ago, she wouldn't have been allowed to see me or wouldn't have wanted to see me. Personally, I enjoy my "untouchable" status by Wayfers.
This is a great big tangent I'm about to go on but I listen to another Bible teacher on TV and he's teaching so much about not earning God's love and blessings. Even though TWI supposedly taught that, they sure didn't live it. When I went to Dr. Rawlins' service it brought me back to the "so-called" discipline of TWI - how we all had to be ON TIME, etc. we had to earn God's love by tithing, witnessing, SIT, etc. or God wouldn't spit in our direction.
Just my 2 cents.
"Hate to pick on a newbie but we MUST be able to go further than we were taught! Otherwise we would still be in the Dark Ages!"
Pick on me all you want. It doesn't hurt.
Did I say something that implied that we should NOT go beyond what we were taught???
I never heard about earning God's love. We have God's love, earning implies working for it which is Not what the Way taught (I was taught Eph 2:8 & 9). If youv'e been out of it for 20 years then you're memory is skewed.
"Hate to pick on a newbie but we MUST be able to go further than we were taught! Otherwise we would still be in the Dark Ages!"
Pick on me all you want. It doesn't hurt.
Did I say something that implied that we should NOT go beyond what we were taught???
I never heard about earning God's love. We have God's love, earning implies working for it which is Not what the Way taught (I was taught Eph 2:8 & 9). If youv'e been out of it for 20 years then you're memory is skewed.
Hey, Newbie and fellow NCer,
We may have not been taught that we had to earn God's love in words, but certainly by actions! Remember "God won't even spit in your direction if you don't tithe!" Boy, I sure do. And you know what, I give freely now and haven't tithed for 20 years and I'm still here and blessed.
We may have not been taught that we had to earn God's love in words, but certainly by actions! Remember "God won't even spit in your direction if you don't tithe!" Boy, I sure do. And you know what, I give freely now and haven't tithed for 20 years and I'm still here and blessed.
Thanks,
ja47646
Is that a quote from LCM? I think I remeber it. I left in '97. He did go into tithing, and abundant sharing. I never thought it was bad that he taught it. I never got the impression or felt compelled to tithe. I saw the importance of it, and I liked how Dr. Wierwille taught about the law of giving and receiving.
I remember attending her 70th Birthday Party they had for her at HQ.
She got up and spoke at the mic .... she said, "I'd rather be 69... I like the connotation better!"
When I met her in the early eighties, she was rude and crude. Had a very rough side to her...I was shocked to find out she was a doctor. Doubt she would have really made it out there without twi.
You can't change what was on the inside of a person. The way she was was not because of twi. Some people don't have what it takes to be nice.
All in all, she acted only in ways in which she was taught. Remember, we can't go farther than what we have been taught.
I'm pretty sure the very first thing Carolyin was taught at Indiana University medical school was the oath every physician takes:
"First, do no harm."
She was taught that first and foremost as a physician, it is her responsibility, and she TOOK AN OATH to DO NO HARM.
She was also taught that as a physician, she must set aside her own personal likes and dislikes and personal opinions in order to act in the best interest of her patient.
She went as far as she was taught, and turned her back on what she was taught, in favor of ERROR she was taught by a man who took no oath to do no harm.
She was taught better,
She knew better,
She chose to turn her back on what she was taught,
Is that a quote from LCM? I think I remeber it. I left in '97. He did go into tithing, and abundant sharing. I never thought it was bad that he taught it. I never got the impression or felt compelled to tithe. I saw the importance of it, and I liked how Dr. Wierwille taught about the law of giving and receiving.
I wonder what Way you were in? What percent were you giving?
Were you an adult when you left or still at home with your parents?
If Dr. Rawlings was acting only on the basis of *what she was taught*,
the question needs to be asked -- by whom was she taught????
To what teaching did she adhere to???
Certainly not her first oath of allegiance --- as a doctor.
She chose the allegiance to twi instead.
So -- maybe she did go no further than she was taught.
Sadly. :(
It was her own choice. She was taught better. She knew better. She simply chose NOT to do what was in the best interest of her patient, and in my own opinion, for what that is worth, broke her oath as a physician.
Nobody had to make Carolyn the bad guy.
When I met her, I had all the respect in the world for her.
She lost that respect all on her own, with no help from me or anyone else, by intentionally harming her patient.
I chose those words carefully. As a Fellow of Psychosomatic Medicine, the study of how the mind influences the body, Carolyn knew exactly what those words would do to her patient.
And she chose to say them anyway.
And she chose to deliberately allow this woman to birth the head of the baby without supporting the perineum, knowing, KNOWING, that with no support, those tissues were very likely to tear in an uncontrolled fashion.
That is reprehensible, and unexcusable.
And then to blame it on someone else, is,
Well, let's say She and VP were two of a kind. That's why they liked each other so much and got along so well together.
The more I think about it I met her in the 70's not the 80's and she seemed kind of old then. Maybe because I was still just a kid myself. This was before she got really famous with her classes and her book or books I guess.
Its really too bad that so many women put their trust in her and have things happen. I've always felt for myself that the most vulnerable time of my life was when I was pregnant. And having to trust someone with my body and my babies and have that happen are really unforgivable.
In fact, Catcup, what she did to that lady I would classify as a rape. Hopefully, this woman was able to heal as best she could mentally from it.
Vickles, I was actually thinking the same thing, but didn`t have the nerve to say it.
It really shook her up at the time.
I don't know if it fits a legal definition of rape, that may be taking it a bit too far legally. But could it possibly be deemed an assault? That's a question for a legal expert, not me.
But as far as the practice of medicine is concerned, she violated her oath as a physician when she violated that patient's dignity, humanity, and physical body.
And when she asked her nurses to sit back with her and "watch this new procedure" for pushing out a baby, that was a crock of ..... I knew it, and she knew it. It was my field of expertise to know of any "new procedures" in that area, and had just returned from a workshop conducted by Penny Simkin, who happened to be the expert in the field. We focused on that stage of labor and there was no such "new" procedure. And as far as the effects on her patient, she was definitely shaken up over it, but too intimidated to say anything to Rawlins or take any other action.
I get that the obit upset some but I what is an obituary supposed to say, that the person sucked?
Mine would say "Shellon had a big mouth, advocated too quickly, and took a long time to shut up most of the time. She was bi*chy and brassy and got fired for losing a mans prosthetic leg but kicked the administrator on the way out the door"
I would love for it to be something like that, honest, real, factual, humorous.
No, what it will say is something sweet and full of nice crap about what a wonderful mother I was (my kids might argue but they'll put it in there) how much I loved them and my friends, my love for education and books, stuff like that.
When my husband's memorial service was happening, it was about how wonderful he was, and he WAS but he was also human and the months and months of people telling me good stuff and how they missed him eventually tickled my gag reflex.
That's our society. People weren't going to approach me and say "Ya know, Shellon, I hated your husband, he built me a crapazz house"
We say and write nice things about people cuz that's what we do. It's supposed to be a tribute, a testimony to the deceased and comfort the family and loved ones.
The realities are better left in memories, so as to not cause undo or added grief to the survivors.
Remember, we can't go farther than what we have been taught.
Baloney. This is another sin-whitewashing vp curse to people who want to walk with the Lord.
With the Holy Spirit -- or even with just plain common sense, you can do the right thing.
There is no excuse for the kind of behavior spoken of on this thread. No excuse. I am thankful that the Lord is just and righteous, and things will be all balanced out in His righteous scales of justice.
And I hope the people who were so bitterly and cruelly treated see this sometime and get some blessing of healing in seeing the truth (which, after all, is what sets people free).
I have been reading about (and Holy Spirit has been with me on this one in a massive way) fear of the Lord.
People do (or don't do) what is right, what the Lord says, they lose the vision of what He taught them, people forget the blessings He gave, and the kindness with which we should live because of the presence or absence of the fear of the Lord.
And people will be judged for what they did or did not do that they should have.
There is no blaming others at the judgment seat of Christ. Carolyn Rawlins, like vp and everyone else who has used and abused their position to hurt God's precious people will get a true judgment at that time.
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rascal
Agreed Excathdra, I see the parallells. It is all about being alone and vulnerable with someone that you should have been able to safely trust. It is about discovering that the person who you trusted is a monster, it is about using your position and power to hurt.
Maybe this resonates so deeply with me because my ob decided to be an nasty arse (he had a waiting room full of patients and I had chosen an inconvenient time to have the child of course) when he rushed in at the last miniute to deliver my first born. It was terrifying, to have the man in charge of my life angry and unneccessarily rough (my arm blackened from wrist to elbow with the roughness in which he inserted an unneccessary iv no medicine just the needle ... AS my child was crowning) it destroyed what should have been the most special day of our lives, the welcoming of our precious daughter.
It was bad enough that when the hospital gave me a courtesy call six weeks later and I gave them an honest acount of how frightening and dissapointing my experience had been.....they called me back a day later and apologised profusely, and insisted that we forget about the 500 dollar deductable that we still owed them. I guess my story checked out and they were afraid I would sue.
What that Dr. did to that woman was criminal, that she did it when the poor woman was at her most vulnerable, cruel. I dearly wish that she had been prosecuted.
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Foot_on_a_rock
I did not think that it was a bad obituary. I liked it. I re-read it after reading that a post was started on the topic.
I just learned of her death yesterday, just like I learned of this place yesterday.
I live close to Winston-Salem, NC. I didn't know that she lived near me. She inspired me on many things. Like to not circumcise my son, and to understand female reproductivity.
I've read the posts about her being uncompassionate to the woman that was giving birth. It's tragic that she can also be remebered for being mean to people outside of the ministry.
All in all, she acted only in ways in which she was taught. Remember, we can't go farther than what we have been taught.
God will forgive her of her sins, who are we to cast stones?
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Lori
I agree Rascal. If you're going to extend your services as a professional, then BE a professional.
Act like one. Keep your personal thoughts, preferences, hatred, and whatever else out of it. Otherwise, you have no business wearing that white coat..
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JA47646
Hey, Foot on a Rock,
Hate to pick on a newbie but we MUST be able to go further than we were taught! Otherwise we would still be in the Dark Ages!
By listening to the posters here it sounds like Dr. Rawlins practiced medicine way past her prime.
I've got to admit by going to her memorial service (we can't say funeral in TWI) I wished I had gotten to know her but since I left TWI 20 years ago, she wouldn't have been allowed to see me or wouldn't have wanted to see me. Personally, I enjoy my "untouchable" status by Wayfers.
This is a great big tangent I'm about to go on but I listen to another Bible teacher on TV and he's teaching so much about not earning God's love and blessings. Even though TWI supposedly taught that, they sure didn't live it. When I went to Dr. Rawlins' service it brought me back to the "so-called" discipline of TWI - how we all had to be ON TIME, etc. we had to earn God's love by tithing, witnessing, SIT, etc. or God wouldn't spit in our direction.
Just my 2 cents.
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Foot_on_a_rock
"Hate to pick on a newbie but we MUST be able to go further than we were taught! Otherwise we would still be in the Dark Ages!"
Pick on me all you want. It doesn't hurt.
Did I say something that implied that we should NOT go beyond what we were taught???
I never heard about earning God's love. We have God's love, earning implies working for it which is Not what the Way taught (I was taught Eph 2:8 & 9). If youv'e been out of it for 20 years then you're memory is skewed.
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JA47646
Hey, Newbie and fellow NCer,
We may have not been taught that we had to earn God's love in words, but certainly by actions! Remember "God won't even spit in your direction if you don't tithe!" Boy, I sure do. And you know what, I give freely now and haven't tithed for 20 years and I'm still here and blessed.
Thanks,
ja47646
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Foot_on_a_rock
Is that a quote from LCM? I think I remeber it. I left in '97. He did go into tithing, and abundant sharing. I never thought it was bad that he taught it. I never got the impression or felt compelled to tithe. I saw the importance of it, and I liked how Dr. Wierwille taught about the law of giving and receiving.
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A la prochaine
I remember attending her 70th Birthday Party they had for her at HQ.
She got up and spoke at the mic .... she said, "I'd rather be 69... I like the connotation better!"
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vickles
When I met her in the early eighties, she was rude and crude. Had a very rough side to her...I was shocked to find out she was a doctor. Doubt she would have really made it out there without twi.
You can't change what was on the inside of a person. The way she was was not because of twi. Some people don't have what it takes to be nice.
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Catcup
I'm pretty sure the very first thing Carolyin was taught at Indiana University medical school was the oath every physician takes:
"First, do no harm."
She was taught that first and foremost as a physician, it is her responsibility, and she TOOK AN OATH to DO NO HARM.
She was also taught that as a physician, she must set aside her own personal likes and dislikes and personal opinions in order to act in the best interest of her patient.
She went as far as she was taught, and turned her back on what she was taught, in favor of ERROR she was taught by a man who took no oath to do no harm.
She was taught better,
She knew better,
She chose to turn her back on what she was taught,
And she chose to knowingly do harm
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excathedra
that should be a minster's oath
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Bramble
I wonder what Way you were in? What percent were you giving?
Were you an adult when you left or still at home with your parents?
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satori001
But for Dotsy, she'd have been his Eva B.
Called him every night to hear all about what he'd been a-workin' that day.
Hello? Normal?
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dmiller
Foot -- That teaching about going no further than we were taught is BS.
Just like the *law of believing* is BS.
I've learned plenty of things on my own -- with NO teacher involved.
I've learned plenty of things --- WITH a teacher involved.
Just because Docvic said something, doesn't make it *gospel*.
Sounds to me (judging from what others have said),
that Dr Rawlings was bound by the The Hippocratic Oath,
but she chose instead, the hypocritical oath -- the twi version.
I never knew her. I've heard about her and her *accomplishments*,
but hearing here that she disdained those who were not *of the household*,
is one more nail in the coffin of twi and their insidious mind control
over the general populace, and professional people as well.
The Phucktards there at headquarters aren't content with spewing filth.
They (seem) to make sure it enters every segment of life.
And folks like DR. Rawlings seemed willing to accept it ---
hook, line, and sinker.
I guess Einstein was taught the theory of relativity by someone else.
(he couldn't go beyond what he was taught).
I'm guessing Edison had someone teach him how the phone worked.
(He couldn't go beyond what he was taught).
I'm guessing that Earl Scruggs didn't figure out a new banjo style on his own.
(He couldn't go beyond what he was taught).
And I'm guessing Bill Gates had some mentors somewhere
(Teaching him the intricacies of the computer)
to take things to a whole new level, never before seen.
If Dr. Rawlings was acting only on the basis of *what she was taught*,
the question needs to be asked -- by whom was she taught????
To what teaching did she adhere to???
Certainly not her first oath of allegiance --- as a doctor.
She chose the allegiance to twi instead.
So -- maybe she did go no further than she was taught.
Sadly. :(
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TheInvisibleDan
Bravo! Bravo! Dmiller!
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Foot_on_a_rock
Actually I ws a single mom with three kids that I supported. I gave 10% and then some and also contributed my time to run classes.
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Catcup
It was her own choice. She was taught better. She knew better. She simply chose NOT to do what was in the best interest of her patient, and in my own opinion, for what that is worth, broke her oath as a physician.
Nobody had to make Carolyn the bad guy.
When I met her, I had all the respect in the world for her.
She lost that respect all on her own, with no help from me or anyone else, by intentionally harming her patient.
I chose those words carefully. As a Fellow of Psychosomatic Medicine, the study of how the mind influences the body, Carolyn knew exactly what those words would do to her patient.
And she chose to say them anyway.
And she chose to deliberately allow this woman to birth the head of the baby without supporting the perineum, knowing, KNOWING, that with no support, those tissues were very likely to tear in an uncontrolled fashion.
That is reprehensible, and unexcusable.
And then to blame it on someone else, is,
Well, let's say She and VP were two of a kind. That's why they liked each other so much and got along so well together.
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vickles
The more I think about it I met her in the 70's not the 80's and she seemed kind of old then. Maybe because I was still just a kid myself. This was before she got really famous with her classes and her book or books I guess.
Its really too bad that so many women put their trust in her and have things happen. I've always felt for myself that the most vulnerable time of my life was when I was pregnant. And having to trust someone with my body and my babies and have that happen are really unforgivable.
In fact, Catcup, what she did to that lady I would classify as a rape. Hopefully, this woman was able to heal as best she could mentally from it.
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rascal
Vickles, I was actually thinking the same thing, but didn`t have the nerve to say it.
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Catcup
It really shook her up at the time.
I don't know if it fits a legal definition of rape, that may be taking it a bit too far legally. But could it possibly be deemed an assault? That's a question for a legal expert, not me.
But as far as the practice of medicine is concerned, she violated her oath as a physician when she violated that patient's dignity, humanity, and physical body.
And when she asked her nurses to sit back with her and "watch this new procedure" for pushing out a baby, that was a crock of ..... I knew it, and she knew it. It was my field of expertise to know of any "new procedures" in that area, and had just returned from a workshop conducted by Penny Simkin, who happened to be the expert in the field. We focused on that stage of labor and there was no such "new" procedure. And as far as the effects on her patient, she was definitely shaken up over it, but too intimidated to say anything to Rawlins or take any other action.
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Shellon
I don't understand.
I get that the obit upset some but I what is an obituary supposed to say, that the person sucked?
Mine would say "Shellon had a big mouth, advocated too quickly, and took a long time to shut up most of the time. She was bi*chy and brassy and got fired for losing a mans prosthetic leg but kicked the administrator on the way out the door"
I would love for it to be something like that, honest, real, factual, humorous.
No, what it will say is something sweet and full of nice crap about what a wonderful mother I was (my kids might argue but they'll put it in there) how much I loved them and my friends, my love for education and books, stuff like that.
When my husband's memorial service was happening, it was about how wonderful he was, and he WAS but he was also human and the months and months of people telling me good stuff and how they missed him eventually tickled my gag reflex.
That's our society. People weren't going to approach me and say "Ya know, Shellon, I hated your husband, he built me a crapazz house"
We say and write nice things about people cuz that's what we do. It's supposed to be a tribute, a testimony to the deceased and comfort the family and loved ones.
The realities are better left in memories, so as to not cause undo or added grief to the survivors.
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rascal
Shellon, the originator of the thread was trying to make the point that it wasn`t really an honest obituary, but more of a promo for twi.....shrug
One would think that you could say nice things about someone in their obituary without making it an info mercial.
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Catcup
There is a nice thread with positive memories about Dr. Rawlins in the "In Memoriam" forum.
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Kit Sober
With the Holy Spirit -- or even with just plain common sense, you can do the right thing.
There is no excuse for the kind of behavior spoken of on this thread. No excuse. I am thankful that the Lord is just and righteous, and things will be all balanced out in His righteous scales of justice.
And I hope the people who were so bitterly and cruelly treated see this sometime and get some blessing of healing in seeing the truth (which, after all, is what sets people free).
I have been reading about (and Holy Spirit has been with me on this one in a massive way) fear of the Lord.
People do (or don't do) what is right, what the Lord says, they lose the vision of what He taught them, people forget the blessings He gave, and the kindness with which we should live because of the presence or absence of the fear of the Lord.
And people will be judged for what they did or did not do that they should have.
There is no blaming others at the judgment seat of Christ. Carolyn Rawlins, like vp and everyone else who has used and abused their position to hurt God's precious people will get a true judgment at that time.
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