Not in the instances that I listed. I guess that is why I took him at his word this time. When confronted about hitting a woman, he likened it to smacking at an annoying mosquito. A guy can only stand to be annoyed for so long, you know....
There were several pages on the thread where he defended himself and his position.
I understand, I know that we were taught this in twi....I at one time even believed this myself, that if I irritated my spouse to the point of getting hit, it was my fault for not shutting up when I should have.
I believed many of the things that John has put forth in these forums when I was in twi. I have since changed my pov. That is probably why I am so irritating.
By the way, I did NOT ask her to post. I related the tenor of the thread and she said she wanted to reply. At the last moment she asked me if she should do it or not. I said I thought some posters may want to tell her what I had posted in the past and Rascal fulfilled that prophecy, but that sure go ahead. I didn't even read what she posted until just now.
Most of the people I have gone to fellowship with generally disapprove of GSC. Too much bitterness, etc. My wife is OK with my involvement here as long as I don't talk her ear off about it, but I'm glad she posted and if she wants to get her own username and post more, I'm all for it.
As for what Rascal said, I'm willing to go to extremes to protect myself from abuse, even if the abuser is a woman, but I've never said that men have any right to abuse women. I admit that sometimes I've been overly zealous in my criticism of those who disagree with me, but IMO Rascal is a bully and plays the victim/sociopath card like it's going out of style.
Lol, John come on, you did too. I understand if you have changed your position, but PLEASE don`t say that you never advocated the smacking of a woman when they became annoying. You offended a lot of people that week.
Are you embarrassed that your wife knows what you think here? Does it bother you that she read how you treat others?
I am not playing victim OR socio path here....Who is the one acting negative/ugly?
I am truly glad that she posted, I have honestly wondered through the years if she was ok, given some of your comments.
I hope that she comes back, she might even learn a thing or two.
After giving it some thought, I'd like to address this...
quote: I'm only a woman after all.
Nowhere did I say or imply that women are inferior to men and I don't think the bible teaches it.
quote: Well, then I shall simply extend my hand in greeting and say hello, John. I've never met an true misogynist before--at least none with guts enough to admit it.
quote: You could never have any respect for someone like me, and to simply argue and rant at each other does nothing but eat up Paw's bandwidth.
I can respect anyone's view if it has substance. I did not even say that women should not have access to the authority they do today. We just might have a woman as our next president. I won't vote for her but I won't expatriate if she does win. When I read quotes like the above, I can't help but conclude that you were on emotional autopilot at least at the time you were posting.
quote: Women perform 2/3 of the world's work
Now THAT, I dispute. I recently read that men do 90% of overtime work in the US. All those world stats are irrelevant to me. I don't live in a third world country and I am not subject to their culture; the things I have issues with are germain to THIS culture.
Ok, I don't know anything about the past posts you guys are speaking of, and for the reasons your fellowship people state I did stay away from GSC myself for a long time. Although I was an active member I avoided coming out here because I didn't want to get swallowed up in the past or in bitterness. I like that I am not controlled by the way anymore and I don't want to be reminded of my life "In". I am out here now because I have learned how to stay away from those subjects unless it's something I really want to sink my teeth into.
As for this thread let's please not turn it into a forum for the past disagreements and please let's stick to the topic at hand. It's a good topic and we have gotten some real good input and insight out here and what I see starting to happen today has the potential to kill this thread in a heartbeat.
The stuff we have been discussing have been issues for decades and to some degree continue to be. I know for one I perform my job as well as any man but am historically paid 20% lower than the men in my same role. Moving into management is generally given to a lesser qualified male than a more qualified woman. It's the way of the world even now after the "women's rights" movement. I am by no means a feminist, but I am a single mom raising 3 kids. It's not fair that I am penalized monetarily, and in career advancements because I was born female.
Let's get back to the topic at hand and not what has happened in the past. Please!
(Free....sorry dear but I must jump in before we get back on track)
John,
On this I cannot give you the benefit of the doubt.
Part of the reason I went to bat for you in the past was because I had an aversion to victim thinking. What I considered continual need to be a victim so you could have your lack supplied by the comforters that surrounded you.
I hated it in others because I too was a victim and had fought like hell to remove myself from being one.
I have worked hard to get to where I am today and it wasn't brought on by rosy conditions that were void of some form of abuse either.
I misjudged Cathy at that time and considered her to be one such victim.
I was wrong!
I have since gotten to know her behind the scenes and have found her to be one of the most compassionate people I know.
She is raising 7 children that show the quality of her in their actions. Our children do reflect their love and nurturing or lack thereof without question.
You say she is a sociopath which is defined:
Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others. A person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.
Recently she had an incident that happened that was brought on in normal circumstances of a mother with many things to attend to and had an innocent accident take place that was worsened by a male when it was the opposite of what should have been provided.
The horror of the situation of her reaction which was a normal healthy one IMHO mortified in fear it would cause confusion with her children whom she has raised to not behave poorly just because someone else does, and the other people around her because she didn't want to be offensive to them.
She is hardly a sociopath in any stretch of the imagination and I don't care what history both of you has you owe her an apology.
First, to clarify "our John" is an idiom. I could have used something else.
And as to the rest...I have to go by what I read. People often have far different personas on the internet than they have in real life, and, certainly, personality traits reveal themselves through language--often when subterfuge was the original intention.
I made it clear I was in part jesting, in my tone, but, the figures stand for themselves. Regardless of perceived media bias--which is undeniable--posting opinions and portraying them clearly as your own does not indicate an objection to what might be called "a belief in the current frame of thought." It comes across as an opinion.
I can respect anyone's view if it has substance. I did not even say that women should not have access to the authority they do today. We just might have a woman as our next president. I won't vote for her but I won't expatriate if she does win. When I read quotes like the above, I can't help but conclude that you were on emotional autopilot at least at the time you were posting.
quote: Women perform 2/3 of the world's work
Now THAT, I dispute. I recently read that men do 90% of overtime work in the US. All those world stats are irrelevant to me. I don't live in a third world country and I am not subject to their culture; the things I have issues with are germain to THIS culture.
In answer, John (and I've turned my sarcasm button off, so, there should be no misunderstanding).
The other posters are correct. This is a thread about a woman's authority. It's a broad topic, and can handle many items, however, if you're interested in a discussion which thoughtfully and analytically examines the disparity between pay scales, property ownership, and socio-economic status, even within the narrow confines of American culture (which is what I think you mean by THIS culture), then, I shall begin a separate thread.
If you don't believe my view has substance, which is the contextual implication of your sentence, then, why bother? However, on issues such as these, I won't stoop to bandying about opinion without some sort of clear data to support or confound our particular ideas. That would mean, of course, a real examination of available data at hand including sources and citations.
As to your opinion of my "emotional autopilot" ... well, I can only say the data does not support your conclusions.
quote: I am truly glad that she posted, I have honestly wondered through the years if she was ok, given some of your comments.
I hope that she comes back, she might even learn a thing or two.
OK, fine. By the way, does your husband know what you say about him? Like, for instance...
quote: I lived it too. It was difficult to hold it together under twi conditions. Our personalities, our likes and dislikes, didn`t matter so much when twi rules were what we subjected ourselves to.
Once out, it made a huge difference. He was practical, frugal, and a health nut, I was an animal lover/rescuer, junk food junkie. He was a drinker, I was a tea totaller... I never lived up to his standards of what was important, he never allowed me to be who I really was....shrug
It has been heartbreakingly difficult through the years to find a middle ground that both can live with....sigh you are always left wondering what might have been had you married a more compatible person, rather than the one that was acceptible according to the twi criteria.
I think that we both would have made excellent spouses ...to other people.
Yeah, Rascal, you show your husband that stuff and then you can point your finger at me. One more thing.
quote: Are you embarrassed that your wife knows what you think here? Does it bother you that she read how you treat others?
No, because my wife already knows what I think here there and everywhere. She wouldn't be a good help meet if she didn't know what to help, would she?
Freeatlast: I understand what you're saying about no derail; this is an example of 2 things: 1) Rascal is a bully, and 2) I am willing to go to extremes to protect myself from abuse even if the abuser is a woman.
ChattyKathy: Just because someone has a full plate doesn't mean they have the right to misrepresent people as aggressively as she does. I think she fits that sociopathic definition, especially " Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others." She has always struck me as a desperate individual and I even posted to her once that her posts came across to me as a cry for help. But I have to defend myself from her. My wife wants to respond to her now, too.
Well Jean, he may treat you well, but John has a tendency to be a real booger to girls here. He has advocated smacking women around because they don`t know when to shut up. He has in the past accused the women who posted here of abuse in twi of lying. He has a history of demonstrated disdain of women and a denigration of their difficulties in his posts.
For heavens sake, he once called me a pig making farting noises and demanding that I go back to my family that had to put up with me when trying to post here...shrug
Maybe he has changed his positions on some of these issues, I guess we all do. I hope so anyway.
I have always wondered about you, hoping that he treated the women of his family with more kindness and respect than he has chosen to demonstrate to his sisters in Christ here.
Great to hear from you and see the *other* side.
Well, Rascal, he does treat me and our daughter well with kindness and respect. I have never heard him seriously advocate smacking a woman for any reason. I consider the fact that none of the women who claim to have been sexually abused by Dr. Wierwille did so while he was still alive to be worthy of note to say the least. I'm not sure he has any thing to be ashamed of or embarrassed about. When you say that your marriage was under less pressure while you subjected yourselves to twi rules, does that translate to your marriage worked better and your personalities were less important while the two of you were still renewing your minds to the Word? Maybe you should learn a thing or two.
Those of us who were around for the VPW years had a tendency to hang on his every word and suggestion because we thought that maybe it was:
A.) revelation
B.) rooted in a deep spiritual understanding of the scriptures
C.) a combination of both
In reality, it was nothing more than the personal opinion of a guy who grew up on a farm, in rural Ohio, during The Great Depression. Add to that, a fondness for pretending that things he said and wrote originated with him. He also was quite fond of leaving us to draw our own conclusions as to whether what he spoke was divinely inspired or not. Just because VP said "this is how it is" or "this is what the scriptures say", really means very little in light of what we now know about what the real VP was like. What if Farmer Jones had told us the same things? Would we place such a high value on their importance?
I think,too, we must consider the culture that existed when The NT was current and try to understand some of the directives in it in that light. Sure, truth is truth, but we do not live in that culture and must temper our understanding with that realization.
The pay and promotion indiscrepancies are very real, not just in third world counties, but right here in good old hometown US of A. Much of this is not likely to change drastically in our lifetimes. That is why we as individuals must make a consentrated effort to try to rise above these inequities on a daily basis.
Jean you don`t know how glad that I am to hear that you and your daughter are treated well. I have no beef with you, and extend a hearty welcome you here to grease spot.
I don`t know if you are being intentionally rude or not. My marriage has always been a work in progress while recovering from twi ...shrug....I don`t know it all by a long shot....never claimed to. Most of us here are sharing, learning and growing from our mistakes and experiences.
John, I don`t know why you have your nose into my marriage, but since it obviously interests you so...of COURSE my spouse knows what I say here. He has been traveling this road with me for 20 years for heavens sakes...lol
He looks in here when he cares to, most of the time he trusts me to relate things honestly where and when appropriate. If I am talking about it here, generally we are living it, usually learning and overcoming lifes challenges together and moving on...shrug
Free, I don`t know anything about the corporate pay rate for women. I know that in the factory I worked at and at the restaurant I work at now, women have come a long way.
The pay rate/promotion rate seems to be scrupulously fair. I think people are afraid of being sued.
My daughter was made shift manager and they cannot get her into management fast enough. She is replacing a man who wasn`t doing a very good job.
I don`t know if our experience is the norm or not.
As far as the man having *authority* over the woman in marriage...it certainly didn`t work well in ours. We did things like that for a decade...and it went to he ll. *Submitting one to another* like it says in ephesians is more our style and has worked well Sometimes he needs his bu tt kicked, sometimes I need mine...shrug ...I`d say that we are equal opportunity screw ups...lol Sometimes he is smarter in a given area, sometimes I am....either one of us can display flashes of brilliance when we recognise that in one another. Isn`t that is how a partnership works?
ChattyKathy: Just because someone has a full plate doesn't mean they have the right to misrepresent people as aggressively as she does. I think she fits that sociopathic definition, especially " Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others." She has always struck me as a desperate individual and I even posted to her once that her posts came across to me as a cry for help. But I have to defend myself from her. My wife wants to respond to her now, too.
I have not read everything Cathy has said but I can't fault her on speaking of her husband because I have said things regarding mine over the years sufficient enough that those paying attention would know I've not had a bed of roses so it would be hypocritical of me to speak on that. I see she did address you on that and she is the appropriate one to have done so anyway.
As to her concerns for others I have felt almost the opposite of her at times as your portion of the definition of sociopath. I had felt in the past she was so protective of the abused around her that she had hurt her own growth in the process. And perhaps that is what you are saying in your way, I should allow some room there, interesting how we can see things differently. But that makes life not a bore also I realize.
I will back out of this since you all are talking it through and trust that Cathy has not been embarrassed by my speaking so open of her.
I consider the fact that none of the women who claim to have been sexually abused by Dr. Wierwille did so while he was still alive to be worthy of note to say the least.
jean, it's still worthy. i would never have considered going against the man of god
Free, I don`t know anything about the corporate pay rate for women. I know that in the factory I worked at and at the restaurant I work at now, women have come a long way.
The pay rate/promotion rate seems to be scrupulously fair. I think people are afraid of being sued.
My daughter was made shift manager and they cannot get her into management fast enough. She is replacing a man who wasn`t doing a very good job.
I don`t know if our experience is the norm or not.
I work in IT. It isn't fair in my field. I remember fixing a guys code knowing he made 15 dollars an hour more than I did. Now don't get me wromg I madea nice wage, but he made a good deal more and here I was correcting his work.
When I asked him why he wrote the code the way he had he responded that he was a programmer not a business analyst and since it wasn't written in the spec he wasn't going to go the extra mile to have the code right. I remarked that we are programmer analysts and its our job to think.
Not long after this event I was up for a promotion. I got pregnant so they gave it to a less qualified man. I guess a child made me unable to do the job.
John, I don`t know why you have your nose into my marriage, but since it obviously interests you so...of COURSE my spouse knows what I say here. He has been traveling this road with me for 20 years for heavens sakes...lol
He looks in here when he cares to, most of the time he trusts me to relate things honestly where and when appropriate. If I am talking about it here, generally we are living it, usually learning and overcoming lifes challenges together and moving on...shrug
Well, while I don't usually attempt to speak for him, possibly his comments about your marriage were in response to your statement that he should be embarrassed or ashamed to have me read what he says on Greasespot. I don't think he has any unusual amount of interest in your marriage. I, like your husband, look in here when I care to (which isn't often), most of the time I trust John to relate things honestly, where and when appropriate. And in response to an incident involving you where a male did something out of line that only made the situation worse, not better (I'm not aware of the details, nor do I need to be), John and I were once in a situation involving one of our children where a women saw fit to abuse her authority, and did precisely the opposite of what was needed and helpful under the guise of being on my son's side. My point is that women are equally as prone to ego trips and head games as men have frequently been guilty of.
What I found made life unfair at the factory where I was making really good money was when it came time to apply for medical and dental benefits for a family of 9.
They couldn`t find enough reasons to get rid of me soon enough. For some reason when other people I knew started using their insurance a lot, the company soon found reasons for them to be fired as well.
I`d say big families are discriminated against as well.
quote: I work in IT. It isn't fair in my field. I remember fixing a guys code knowing he made 15 dollars an hour more than I did. Now don't get me wromg I madea nice wage, but he made a good deal more and here I was correcting his work.
When I asked him why he wrote the code the way he had he responded that he was a programmer not a business analyst and since it wasn't written in the spec he wasn't going to go the extra mile to have the code right. I remarked that we are programmer analysts and its our job to think.
Not long after this event I was up for a promotion. I got pregnant so they gave it to a less qualified man. I guess a child made me unable to do the job.
Interesting. The classic male dominated workplace image in my mind is the movie '9 to 5'. Some of what you describe reminds me of parts of that movie. There was definitely a need for reform to begin.
When I worked at Burger King in the 80s one time there was, in the store I worked at, 1 store mgr and 7 asst mgrs, including myself. Five of those 7 were black women and there were a lot of 18 yr old girl asst mgrs throughout the district. But I don't recall that there were ANY black store mgrs of either gender. Plus, one very qualified woman who'd worked as an asst mgr for years was never promoted to store mgr solely because she had kids. The jump in pay from the highest ranking asst mgr to store mgr was quite substantial.
The district mgr who later became director of operations in that system was ethically challenged. As a store mgr he would routinely borrow large quantities of food from other stores in his district a day or 2 before the cutoff date on the P&L statements, then deny ever borrowing the food just so his store's food cost numbers would look better than the store he borrowed the food from. That kind of crap got him promoted to district mgr. Then one time he actually paid for a store mgr who got pregnant to have an abortion, that is, if she wanted to keep her job. Remember, store mgrs shouldn't have kids. Can't sell their souls to BK if they got kids, I guess. I'm guessing that guy isn't the only one who is willing to do stuff like that and people like him can make a big difference at the work place in a bad way.
If what you say is true, then there is still need for reform at higher paying levels.
Much has been glossed over in this thread, as sometimes happens, but I won't let your comment pass unsupported. Worthy means that upon a balance someone or something has value when judged against a given standard. The antithesis is that there are things without value, or worth.
You do not belong on such a scale. Your merit as a person cannot be so casually assessed.
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rascal
Not in the instances that I listed. I guess that is why I took him at his word this time. When confronted about hitting a woman, he likened it to smacking at an annoying mosquito. A guy can only stand to be annoyed for so long, you know....
There were several pages on the thread where he defended himself and his position.
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waterbuffalo
OK, then. I'll have to plead ignorance--haven't read that thread.
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rascal
I understand, I know that we were taught this in twi....I at one time even believed this myself, that if I irritated my spouse to the point of getting hit, it was my fault for not shutting up when I should have.
I believed many of the things that John has put forth in these forums when I was in twi. I have since changed my pov. That is probably why I am so irritating.
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johniam
By the way, I did NOT ask her to post. I related the tenor of the thread and she said she wanted to reply. At the last moment she asked me if she should do it or not. I said I thought some posters may want to tell her what I had posted in the past and Rascal fulfilled that prophecy, but that sure go ahead. I didn't even read what she posted until just now.
Most of the people I have gone to fellowship with generally disapprove of GSC. Too much bitterness, etc. My wife is OK with my involvement here as long as I don't talk her ear off about it, but I'm glad she posted and if she wants to get her own username and post more, I'm all for it.
As for what Rascal said, I'm willing to go to extremes to protect myself from abuse, even if the abuser is a woman, but I've never said that men have any right to abuse women. I admit that sometimes I've been overly zealous in my criticism of those who disagree with me, but IMO Rascal is a bully and plays the victim/sociopath card like it's going out of style.
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rascal
Lol, John come on, you did too. I understand if you have changed your position, but PLEASE don`t say that you never advocated the smacking of a woman when they became annoying. You offended a lot of people that week.
Are you embarrassed that your wife knows what you think here? Does it bother you that she read how you treat others?
I am not playing victim OR socio path here....Who is the one acting negative/ugly?
I am truly glad that she posted, I have honestly wondered through the years if she was ok, given some of your comments.
I hope that she comes back, she might even learn a thing or two.
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johniam
After giving it some thought, I'd like to address this...
quote: I'm only a woman after all.
Nowhere did I say or imply that women are inferior to men and I don't think the bible teaches it.
quote: Well, then I shall simply extend my hand in greeting and say hello, John. I've never met an true misogynist before--at least none with guts enough to admit it.
quote: You could never have any respect for someone like me, and to simply argue and rant at each other does nothing but eat up Paw's bandwidth.
I can respect anyone's view if it has substance. I did not even say that women should not have access to the authority they do today. We just might have a woman as our next president. I won't vote for her but I won't expatriate if she does win. When I read quotes like the above, I can't help but conclude that you were on emotional autopilot at least at the time you were posting.
quote: Women perform 2/3 of the world's work
Now THAT, I dispute. I recently read that men do 90% of overtime work in the US. All those world stats are irrelevant to me. I don't live in a third world country and I am not subject to their culture; the things I have issues with are germain to THIS culture.
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FreeAtLast
Ok, I don't know anything about the past posts you guys are speaking of, and for the reasons your fellowship people state I did stay away from GSC myself for a long time. Although I was an active member I avoided coming out here because I didn't want to get swallowed up in the past or in bitterness. I like that I am not controlled by the way anymore and I don't want to be reminded of my life "In". I am out here now because I have learned how to stay away from those subjects unless it's something I really want to sink my teeth into.
As for this thread let's please not turn it into a forum for the past disagreements and please let's stick to the topic at hand. It's a good topic and we have gotten some real good input and insight out here and what I see starting to happen today has the potential to kill this thread in a heartbeat.
The stuff we have been discussing have been issues for decades and to some degree continue to be. I know for one I perform my job as well as any man but am historically paid 20% lower than the men in my same role. Moving into management is generally given to a lesser qualified male than a more qualified woman. It's the way of the world even now after the "women's rights" movement. I am by no means a feminist, but I am a single mom raising 3 kids. It's not fair that I am penalized monetarily, and in career advancements because I was born female.
Let's get back to the topic at hand and not what has happened in the past. Please!
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ChattyKathy
(Free....sorry dear but I must jump in before we get back on track)
John,
On this I cannot give you the benefit of the doubt.
Part of the reason I went to bat for you in the past was because I had an aversion to victim thinking. What I considered continual need to be a victim so you could have your lack supplied by the comforters that surrounded you.
I hated it in others because I too was a victim and had fought like hell to remove myself from being one.
I have worked hard to get to where I am today and it wasn't brought on by rosy conditions that were void of some form of abuse either.
I misjudged Cathy at that time and considered her to be one such victim.
I was wrong!
I have since gotten to know her behind the scenes and have found her to be one of the most compassionate people I know.
She is raising 7 children that show the quality of her in their actions. Our children do reflect their love and nurturing or lack thereof without question.
You say she is a sociopath which is defined:
Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others. A person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.
Recently she had an incident that happened that was brought on in normal circumstances of a mother with many things to attend to and had an innocent accident take place that was worsened by a male when it was the opposite of what should have been provided.
The horror of the situation of her reaction which was a normal healthy one IMHO mortified in fear it would cause confusion with her children whom she has raised to not behave poorly just because someone else does, and the other people around her because she didn't want to be offensive to them.
She is hardly a sociopath in any stretch of the imagination and I don't care what history both of you has you owe her an apology.
Kathy
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QuietThinker
Afternoon Everyone, and Hello, Jean as well.
First, to clarify "our John" is an idiom. I could have used something else.
And as to the rest...I have to go by what I read. People often have far different personas on the internet than they have in real life, and, certainly, personality traits reveal themselves through language--often when subterfuge was the original intention.
I made it clear I was in part jesting, in my tone, but, the figures stand for themselves. Regardless of perceived media bias--which is undeniable--posting opinions and portraying them clearly as your own does not indicate an objection to what might be called "a belief in the current frame of thought." It comes across as an opinion.
And...I believe we all have those.
Yours clearly,
QT
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QuietThinker
Ah, you are all posting quickly, and I'm busy with the mini-QT's.
I'll return to answer....
.......of course.
Yours snirkingly,
_~QT
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QuietThinker
In answer, John (and I've turned my sarcasm button off, so, there should be no misunderstanding).
The other posters are correct. This is a thread about a woman's authority. It's a broad topic, and can handle many items, however, if you're interested in a discussion which thoughtfully and analytically examines the disparity between pay scales, property ownership, and socio-economic status, even within the narrow confines of American culture (which is what I think you mean by THIS culture), then, I shall begin a separate thread.
If you don't believe my view has substance, which is the contextual implication of your sentence, then, why bother? However, on issues such as these, I won't stoop to bandying about opinion without some sort of clear data to support or confound our particular ideas. That would mean, of course, a real examination of available data at hand including sources and citations.
As to your opinion of my "emotional autopilot" ... well, I can only say the data does not support your conclusions.
Consideringly,
~QT
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johniam
quote: I am truly glad that she posted, I have honestly wondered through the years if she was ok, given some of your comments.
I hope that she comes back, she might even learn a thing or two.
OK, fine. By the way, does your husband know what you say about him? Like, for instance...
quote: I lived it too. It was difficult to hold it together under twi conditions. Our personalities, our likes and dislikes, didn`t matter so much when twi rules were what we subjected ourselves to.
Once out, it made a huge difference. He was practical, frugal, and a health nut, I was an animal lover/rescuer, junk food junkie. He was a drinker, I was a tea totaller... I never lived up to his standards of what was important, he never allowed me to be who I really was....shrug
It has been heartbreakingly difficult through the years to find a middle ground that both can live with....sigh you are always left wondering what might have been had you married a more compatible person, rather than the one that was acceptible according to the twi criteria.
I think that we both would have made excellent spouses ...to other people.
Yeah, Rascal, you show your husband that stuff and then you can point your finger at me. One more thing.
quote: Are you embarrassed that your wife knows what you think here? Does it bother you that she read how you treat others?
No, because my wife already knows what I think here there and everywhere. She wouldn't be a good help meet if she didn't know what to help, would she?
Freeatlast: I understand what you're saying about no derail; this is an example of 2 things: 1) Rascal is a bully, and 2) I am willing to go to extremes to protect myself from abuse even if the abuser is a woman.
ChattyKathy: Just because someone has a full plate doesn't mean they have the right to misrepresent people as aggressively as she does. I think she fits that sociopathic definition, especially " Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others." She has always struck me as a desperate individual and I even posted to her once that her posts came across to me as a cry for help. But I have to defend myself from her. My wife wants to respond to her now, too.
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johniam
Well, Rascal, he does treat me and our daughter well with kindness and respect. I have never heard him seriously advocate smacking a woman for any reason. I consider the fact that none of the women who claim to have been sexually abused by Dr. Wierwille did so while he was still alive to be worthy of note to say the least. I'm not sure he has any thing to be ashamed of or embarrassed about. When you say that your marriage was under less pressure while you subjected yourselves to twi rules, does that translate to your marriage worked better and your personalities were less important while the two of you were still renewing your minds to the Word? Maybe you should learn a thing or two.
Jeaniam
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waysider
Here's the thing.
Those of us who were around for the VPW years had a tendency to hang on his every word and suggestion because we thought that maybe it was:
A.) revelation
B.) rooted in a deep spiritual understanding of the scriptures
C.) a combination of both
In reality, it was nothing more than the personal opinion of a guy who grew up on a farm, in rural Ohio, during The Great Depression. Add to that, a fondness for pretending that things he said and wrote originated with him. He also was quite fond of leaving us to draw our own conclusions as to whether what he spoke was divinely inspired or not. Just because VP said "this is how it is" or "this is what the scriptures say", really means very little in light of what we now know about what the real VP was like. What if Farmer Jones had told us the same things? Would we place such a high value on their importance?
I think,too, we must consider the culture that existed when The NT was current and try to understand some of the directives in it in that light. Sure, truth is truth, but we do not live in that culture and must temper our understanding with that realization.
The pay and promotion indiscrepancies are very real, not just in third world counties, but right here in good old hometown US of A. Much of this is not likely to change drastically in our lifetimes. That is why we as individuals must make a consentrated effort to try to rise above these inequities on a daily basis.
That's just my opinion--------everybody has one.
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rascal
Jean you don`t know how glad that I am to hear that you and your daughter are treated well. I have no beef with you, and extend a hearty welcome you here to grease spot.
I don`t know if you are being intentionally rude or not. My marriage has always been a work in progress while recovering from twi ...shrug....I don`t know it all by a long shot....never claimed to. Most of us here are sharing, learning and growing from our mistakes and experiences.
John, I don`t know why you have your nose into my marriage, but since it obviously interests you so...of COURSE my spouse knows what I say here. He has been traveling this road with me for 20 years for heavens sakes...lol
He looks in here when he cares to, most of the time he trusts me to relate things honestly where and when appropriate. If I am talking about it here, generally we are living it, usually learning and overcoming lifes challenges together and moving on...shrug
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rascal
Free, I don`t know anything about the corporate pay rate for women. I know that in the factory I worked at and at the restaurant I work at now, women have come a long way.
The pay rate/promotion rate seems to be scrupulously fair. I think people are afraid of being sued.
My daughter was made shift manager and they cannot get her into management fast enough. She is replacing a man who wasn`t doing a very good job.
I don`t know if our experience is the norm or not.
As far as the man having *authority* over the woman in marriage...it certainly didn`t work well in ours. We did things like that for a decade...and it went to he ll. *Submitting one to another* like it says in ephesians is more our style and has worked well Sometimes he needs his bu tt kicked, sometimes I need mine...shrug ...I`d say that we are equal opportunity screw ups...lol Sometimes he is smarter in a given area, sometimes I am....either one of us can display flashes of brilliance when we recognise that in one another. Isn`t that is how a partnership works?
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ChattyKathy
I have not read everything Cathy has said but I can't fault her on speaking of her husband because I have said things regarding mine over the years sufficient enough that those paying attention would know I've not had a bed of roses so it would be hypocritical of me to speak on that. I see she did address you on that and she is the appropriate one to have done so anyway.
As to her concerns for others I have felt almost the opposite of her at times as your portion of the definition of sociopath. I had felt in the past she was so protective of the abused around her that she had hurt her own growth in the process. And perhaps that is what you are saying in your way, I should allow some room there, interesting how we can see things differently. But that makes life not a bore also I realize.
I will back out of this since you all are talking it through and trust that Cathy has not been embarrassed by my speaking so open of her.
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excathedra
tried to read this thread but too much too long
jean, it's still worthy. i would never have considered going against the man of god
i'm still worthy and what i say is worthy
that's all i want to point out at the moment
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FreeAtLast
I work in IT. It isn't fair in my field. I remember fixing a guys code knowing he made 15 dollars an hour more than I did. Now don't get me wromg I madea nice wage, but he made a good deal more and here I was correcting his work.
When I asked him why he wrote the code the way he had he responded that he was a programmer not a business analyst and since it wasn't written in the spec he wasn't going to go the extra mile to have the code right. I remarked that we are programmer analysts and its our job to think.
Not long after this event I was up for a promotion. I got pregnant so they gave it to a less qualified man. I guess a child made me unable to do the job.
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johniam
[quote name='rascal' date='Mar 20 2007, 08:32 PM' post='315306
John, I don`t know why you have your nose into my marriage, but since it obviously interests you so...of COURSE my spouse knows what I say here. He has been traveling this road with me for 20 years for heavens sakes...lol
He looks in here when he cares to, most of the time he trusts me to relate things honestly where and when appropriate. If I am talking about it here, generally we are living it, usually learning and overcoming lifes challenges together and moving on...shrug
Well, while I don't usually attempt to speak for him, possibly his comments about your marriage were in response to your statement that he should be embarrassed or ashamed to have me read what he says on Greasespot. I don't think he has any unusual amount of interest in your marriage. I, like your husband, look in here when I care to (which isn't often), most of the time I trust John to relate things honestly, where and when appropriate. And in response to an incident involving you where a male did something out of line that only made the situation worse, not better (I'm not aware of the details, nor do I need to be), John and I were once in a situation involving one of our children where a women saw fit to abuse her authority, and did precisely the opposite of what was needed and helpful under the guise of being on my son's side. My point is that women are equally as prone to ego trips and head games as men have frequently been guilty of.
Thanks for listening,
Jeaniam
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rascal
That is a shame Free, I am sorry about that.
What I found made life unfair at the factory where I was making really good money was when it came time to apply for medical and dental benefits for a family of 9.
They couldn`t find enough reasons to get rid of me soon enough. For some reason when other people I knew started using their insurance a lot, the company soon found reasons for them to be fired as well.
I`d say big families are discriminated against as well.
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johniam
quote: I work in IT. It isn't fair in my field. I remember fixing a guys code knowing he made 15 dollars an hour more than I did. Now don't get me wromg I madea nice wage, but he made a good deal more and here I was correcting his work.
When I asked him why he wrote the code the way he had he responded that he was a programmer not a business analyst and since it wasn't written in the spec he wasn't going to go the extra mile to have the code right. I remarked that we are programmer analysts and its our job to think.
Not long after this event I was up for a promotion. I got pregnant so they gave it to a less qualified man. I guess a child made me unable to do the job.
Interesting. The classic male dominated workplace image in my mind is the movie '9 to 5'. Some of what you describe reminds me of parts of that movie. There was definitely a need for reform to begin.
When I worked at Burger King in the 80s one time there was, in the store I worked at, 1 store mgr and 7 asst mgrs, including myself. Five of those 7 were black women and there were a lot of 18 yr old girl asst mgrs throughout the district. But I don't recall that there were ANY black store mgrs of either gender. Plus, one very qualified woman who'd worked as an asst mgr for years was never promoted to store mgr solely because she had kids. The jump in pay from the highest ranking asst mgr to store mgr was quite substantial.
The district mgr who later became director of operations in that system was ethically challenged. As a store mgr he would routinely borrow large quantities of food from other stores in his district a day or 2 before the cutoff date on the P&L statements, then deny ever borrowing the food just so his store's food cost numbers would look better than the store he borrowed the food from. That kind of crap got him promoted to district mgr. Then one time he actually paid for a store mgr who got pregnant to have an abortion, that is, if she wanted to keep her job. Remember, store mgrs shouldn't have kids. Can't sell their souls to BK if they got kids, I guess. I'm guessing that guy isn't the only one who is willing to do stuff like that and people like him can make a big difference at the work place in a bad way.
If what you say is true, then there is still need for reform at higher paying levels.
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rascal
((((Excathedra)))) of course you are worthy, as is your testimony.
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QuietThinker
Excathedra~
Much has been glossed over in this thread, as sometimes happens, but I won't let your comment pass unsupported. Worthy means that upon a balance someone or something has value when judged against a given standard. The antithesis is that there are things without value, or worth.
You do not belong on such a scale. Your merit as a person cannot be so casually assessed.
You are, however, one of the finest women I know.
I am proud and honored to call you friend.
You matter so much.
Yours lovingly,
QT
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